In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Sr. Ilia Delio speaks with Abre G. Fournier, PhD—a science-based philosopher of consciousness whose work bridges contemporary cognitive science with Asian contemplative traditions and practices of mind transformation.

Abre shares the personal journey that shaped her research: years of intensive contemplative practice, an encounter with what she describes as “awakened awareness,” and a profound, lasting shift in the sense of self that led her to investigate how transformation actually works in lived experience. 

Together, Ilia and Abre explore enduring questions at the heart of consciousness studies: what we experience as the self, how mind and consciousness differ, and what contemporary science can (and cannot yet) reveal about these mysteries. Abre draws from philosophy of mind, cognitive science, and embodied and extended mind research to reframe selfhood as relational, interactive, and dynamically formed rather than fixed and isolated.

ABOUT ABRE FOURNIER

“Can we as human beings really understand what it would mean to have a conscious experience without a sense of self?” 

Abre G. Fournier, PhD, is a science-based philosopher of consciousness with a focus on mind transformation, bridging the advancements of contemporary cognitive sciences with teachings and practices from Asian philosophies centered on states of awakened awareness. Her work synthesizes insights from evolutionary biology, dynamical systems, embodied cognition, and advanced intelligence to articulate the rise of a new dimension of planetary mind. Her international work in facilitating consciousness evolution offers vital insights for philosophers and scientists investigating the complexities and transformation of human consciousness, as well as for professionals and practitioners engaged in transformative practices. She has also been active in the arts and higher education, with academic and executive roles at the State University of New York (SUNY). Her work as a practicing artist in films and new-media collaborations with musicians and composers has been shown in art museums and galleries, film festivals, and live concerts in the US and abroad. Originally from France, Abre lives in the New York metropolitan area.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Robert Nicastro welcomes listeners back into Sr. Ilia Delio’s conversation with biophysicist and technologist Gregory Stock. Last time, Greg raised a profound question: how will AI shape two enduring human longings—love and immortality? In this second part, Ilia and Greg return to the theme of immortality, exploring not only what it might mean for individuals, but what it could mean for the human species as a whole.

As the conversation unfolds, the focus widens from personal hopes to public consequences. Technology has often promised abundance, comfort, and control. Nevertheless, who actually benefits when those promises arrive? Ilia presses into the economics of AI, asking whether it will become a first-world luxury or something that can genuinely serve the common good.

Later, the dialogue turns toward a civic question that is increasingly difficult to avoid: Are our social structures and our governments prepared for the realities of AI? Greg shares his hopes for the future and the aims of his new book, Generation AI and the Transformation of Human Being.

ABOUT GREGORY STOCK

“The greatest frontier in human evolution may no longer lie outside us, but inside: in the choices — and designs — we make for ourselves.”

Gregory Stock, Ph.D., is a scientist, writer, entrepreneur, and public communicator whose work represents a deep exploration into what it means to be human in the 21st century. During his career, he has developed the foremost paradigm for personal inquiries into values and beliefs, which has significant implications for humankind as it faces the profound shifts brought by silicon and biotech. Today, Greg serves as an expert speaker and advisor to biotech and healthcare companies and to non-profits at the cutting edge of human health. 

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Robert Nicastro welcomes listeners back into Sr. Ilia Delio’s ongoing conversation with biophysicist and technologist Gregory Stock, whose new book, Generation AI and the Transformation of Human Being, has just been released.

Together, Ilia and Greg open a doorway into the questions at the heart of “Generation AI”—not simply what artificial intelligence can do, but what it may be doing to us. As AI becomes woven into daily life and the broader evolutionary story, they explore how the human person is being reshaped: our attention, our desires, our sense of progress, and the subtle ways technology can begin to form the contours of relationship and meaning.

Throughout the conversation, Ilia presses a concern that runs beneath the headlines: Can AI make it easier to be human—or does our relentless pursuit of progress come with a cost? And as their dialogue deepens, Greg raises the provocative question: will we fall in love with AI? (He thinks so.)

ABOUT GREGORY STOCK

“The greatest frontier in human evolution may no longer lie outside us, but inside: in the choices — and designs — we make for ourselves.”

Gregory Stock, Ph.D., is a scientist, writer, entrepreneur, and public communicator whose work represents a deep exploration into what it means to be human in the 21st century. During his career, he has developed the foremost paradigm for personal inquiries into values and beliefs, which has significant implications for humankind as it faces the profound shifts brought by silicon and biotech. Today, Greg serves as an expert speaker and advisor to biotech and healthcare companies and to non-profits at the cutting edge of human health. 

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this second part of her conversation with Robert Nicastro, theologian and spiritual teacher Sheri Kling deepens the discussion on how process and open and relational theologies can reshape our spiritual lives.

What does it mean to pray into immanence rather than plead to a distant deity? How can our rituals and symbols come alive again when they're held with spaciousness? And what does faith beyond belief look like in a world longing for depth and connection?

Sheri shares how process theology transforms worship, preaching, and community life—and offers tools for religious leaders hoping to revive faith without falling into dogma. From quantum entanglement to Ezekiel’s dry bones, she invites us to imagine a God intimately present in all things, calling us toward healing, renewal, and co-creative hope.

Later in the episode, Sheri reflects on spiritual maturity, recovering from toxic religion, and why deconstruction must give way to reconstruction rooted in wonder, trust, and love.

ABOUT SHERI KLING

“We are a fragmented people in a fragmented world—but when we begin to think with a more integrative, relational vision of reality, faith can come alive again. We discover that we matter, we belong, and we can participate in the sacred work of a whole-making cosmos.”

Sheri D. Kling, Ph.D., is a writer, theologian, songwriter, and spiritual teacher who serves as director of Process & Faith with the Center for Process Studies, interim minister of Redeemer Lutheran Church in Bradenton, Florida, and teaches regularly for the Haden Institute and Claremont School of Theology, from which she earned her doctorate. She is the author of A Process Spirituality: Christian and Transreligious Resources for Transformation and editor of Renewing Faith: Reigniting Faith and Ministry through Process and Open & Relational Theologies. She speaks, teaches, and leads retreats on spirituality, theology, and transformation, and her work can be found online at sherikling.com and her Substack, The Sacred Everywhere.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Robert Nicastro welcomes back theologian, minister, and director of Process and Faith, Dr. Sheri Kling, for a rich conversation on the power of theology to renew spiritual life in a fragmented world.

Sheri shares the story behind Renewing Faith, a newly released collection of essays emerging from a 2025 conference that brought together voices exploring how process and open and relational theology can breathe new life into Christian practice. Together, she and Robert unpack how these movements offer a vision of God not as a distant, all-controlling force, but as a deeply relational presence—persuasive, not coercive, and intimately involved in the unfolding of creation.

Throughout the episode, Sheri explains key theological ideas in everyday terms, weaving in science, mysticism, and lived experience. She reflects on her own journey from Jungian psychology to process thought, and how this path gave her a more integrated, healing view of God, suffering, and spiritual wholeness.

Later, Sheri offers a profound reimagining of divine power—sharing a story from Proverbs of Ashes that illustrates how a theology of persuasive love can make space for grief, agency, and hope.

ABOUT SHERI KLING

“We are a fragmented people in a fragmented world—but when we begin to think with a more integrative, relational vision of reality, faith can come alive again. We discover that we matter, we belong, and we can participate in the sacred work of a whole-making cosmos.”

Sheri D. Kling, Ph.D., is a writer, theologian, songwriter, and spiritual teacher who serves as director of Process & Faith with the Center for Process Studies, interim minister of Redeemer Lutheran Church in Bradenton, Florida, and teaches regularly for the Haden Institute and Claremont School of Theology, from which she earned her doctorate. She is the author of A Process Spirituality: Christian and Transreligious Resources for Transformation and editor of Renewing Faith: Reigniting Faith and Ministry through Process and Open & Relational Theologies. She speaks, teaches, and leads retreats on spirituality, theology, and transformation, and her work can be found online at sherikling.com and her Substack, The Sacred Everywhere.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

Ilia Delio welcomes back Rev. Dr. Hillary Raining to probe a live question for faith communities today: when our concepts of God become narrow—or distorted—how do they derail spiritual growth and even undermine justice? Hillary names the fears that keep churches clinging to old power structures, and offers a pastoral imagination big enough for an evolving, more-than-abstract God. From “theology police” moments in grief care to the responsibility we bear as Christ’s body, she invites a shift from transactional religion to a life transfigured by love.

The conversation moves into language itself. Do words like Christ and God still help? Hillary shares why she often leads with “Spirit” in wider settings, why the church still needs a reclaimed Christ-language, and how wisdom and creation-energy weave through our lives. Drawing on her Indigenous heritage, she describes practices of reciprocity with the land and how those experiences shape a joyful, resilient path forward for St. Columba’s: centers of prayer and discernment where head and heart meet, contemplation births action, and hope endures.

ABOUT REV. DR. HILLARY RAINING

“The emotional and physical lives of our ancestors… fundamentally affect our emotional and physical lives as well… The practice of gratitude… changes—not only those who practice it—but also the generations that follow.”

The Rev. Dr. Hillary Raining is an Episcopal Priest serving as Rector at St. Columba’s in Washington, D.C. She is also the founder of The Hive (www.thehiveapiary.com), an online spirituality and wellness community. Actively involved in the Episcopal Church, she served on multiple committees and as a professor and consultant for various Seminaries. She is also a published writer and a sought-after public speaker. With several degrees and certifications in theology, liturgy, psychology, trauma integration, yoga, and forest therapy, she seeks to empower others through healing and spiritual direction while leading innovative ministry projects.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Ilia Delio talks with Episcopal priest and spiritual director Rev. Dr. Hillary Raining about what happens when public life shows up in the parish—how pastors can hold political tension without letting church life collapse into partisanship, and why hope and joy remain non-negotiable in a polarized age. Together they explore a renewed mystical imagination for Christianity: experience that leads to transformation, and transformation that bears fruit in justice.

Hillary reflects on leading a large Washington, D.C. congregation where worship must flow into weekday service while also tending the inner life. Along the way, the conversation names the fatigue and anxiety many younger adults carry (economy, climate, AI) and re-centers practices that steady courage: prayer, community, and a lively sense of God’s presence. Later, Ilia and Hillary speak candidly about serving as women in systems marked by patriarchy, and what an integrated, humane faith might look like now.

ABOUT REV. DR. HILLARY RAINING

“The emotional and physical lives of our ancestors… fundamentally affect our emotional and physical lives as well… The practice of gratitude… changes—not only those who practice it—but also the generations that follow.”

The Rev. Dr. Hillary Raining is an Episcopal Priest serving as Rector at St. Columba’s in Washington, D.C. She is also the founder of The Hive (www.thehiveapiary.com), an online spirituality and wellness community. Actively involved in the Episcopal Church, she served on multiple committees and as a professor and consultant for various Seminaries. She is also a published writer and a sought-after public speaker. With several degrees and certifications in theology, liturgy, psychology, trauma integration, yoga, and forest therapy, she seeks to empower others through healing and spiritual direction while leading innovative ministry projects.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Robert Nicastro continues his conversation with philosopher Don Viney. Together, they explore Teilhard de Chardin’s vision of a planetary mind—asking whether today’s global networks are cultivating consciousness and love, or tempting us to worship technology for its own sake.

What happens when tools eclipse persons? When CGI and AI overwhelm story and relationship? Viney contrasts spectacle with narrative and argues that technology should serve the growth of consciousness—embodiment, compassion, and responsibility—rather than replace it. He also pushes back on disembodied transhumanist dreams, advocating for a deeply human path forward.

Later in the episode, Robert and Don turn to “building the earth,” love as the axis of evolution, and a daring theology of the “not-yet”—where God’s actuality grows in relationship with the world. Along the way, they consider citizenship of the universe and Teilhard’s incandescent hope that humanity might one day “master the energies of love.”

ABOUT DON VINEY

“True love unites in such a way as to augment rather than to diminish the personalities of those caught in its Fire.”

Donald Wayne Viney, Ph.D. received degrees in philosophy from Colorado State University (1977) and the University of Oklahoma (1979, 1982). He is a three-time recipient of the title “University Professor” at Pittsburg State University (Kansas) where he taught from 1984 until his retirement in 2022. He is the author of Charles Hartshorne and the Existence of God (1985), senior editor of Hartshorne’s Creative Experiencing: A Philosophy of Freedom (2011), and co-author, with George W. Shields, of The Mind of Charles Hartshorne: A Critical Examination (2020). He has written extensively on the nineteenth century Breton philosopher, Jules Lequyer, and published two books of translations of Lequyer’s writings. In addition, he is the author of dozens of scholarly articles and reviews on a variety of topics, including six articles on Teilhard de Chardin and an annotated translation of Marcel Brion’s 1951 interview with Teilhard. He serves on the editorial boards of Process Studies and the American Journal of Theology and Philosophy. Viney is also a singer-songwriter.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Robert Nicastro sits down with philosopher and musician Don Viney to trace his journey from the arts to philosophy—and the unexpected conversion that led him to process thought. Together, they explore the creative tension between art and thought, and how beauty, music, and literature often touch places philosophical language cannot reach.

Don shares formative moments from studying with Charles Hartshorne and his early fascination with Teilhard de Chardin—unpacking how Teilhard’s evolutionary mysticism resonates with those seeking meaning in a fragmented world. Along the way, the conversation wrestles with non-toxic, life-giving concepts of God and what makes a metaphysical vision truly satisfying in a scientific age.

Later in the episode, Viney reflects on Teilhard’s radical hope, personhood at the heart of the cosmos, and the power of process thinking to awaken a fresh sense of spiritual responsibility.

ABOUT DON VINEY

“True love unites in such a way as to augment rather than to diminish the personalities of those caught in its Fire.”

Donald Wayne Viney, Ph.D. received degrees in philosophy from Colorado State University (1977) and the University of Oklahoma (1979, 1982). He is a three-time recipient of the title “University Professor” at Pittsburg State University (Kansas) where he taught from 1984 until his retirement in 2022. He is the author of Charles Hartshorne and the Existence of God (1985), senior editor of Hartshorne’s Creative Experiencing: A Philosophy of Freedom (2011), and co-author, with George W. Shields, of The Mind of Charles Hartshorne: A Critical Examination (2020). He has written extensively on the nineteenth century Breton philosopher, Jules Lequyer, and published two books of translations of Lequyer’s writings. In addition, he is the author of dozens of scholarly articles and reviews on a variety of topics, including six articles on Teilhard de Chardin and an annotated translation of Marcel Brion’s 1951 interview with Teilhard. He serves on the editorial boards of Process Studies and the American Journal of Theology and Philosophy. Viney is also a singer-songwriter.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.

In this episode of Hunger for Wholeness, Sr. Ilia Delio continues her conversation with neuroanthropologist Terrence Deacon. Together, they explore how we might “fall up” into a collective future—probing the limits of machines and minds, and why complexity in nature often emerges not by work, but by play.

What happens when we mistake computation for thinking? When our tools become mirrors and we fall for our own reflection? From Plato’s worry about writing to today’s large language models, Deacon asks how outsourcing our capacities can both diminish autonomy and unlock astonishing, shared intelligence—raising new questions about freedom, dependence, and human flourishing.

Later in the episode, Sr. Ilia and Deacon trace “falling up” through biology—hemoglobin’s elegant duplications, altruism, and the rule of play—before turning to the noosphere: a future where persons remain distinct yet increasingly interdependent. Along the way they weigh the risks of “queen bee” totalisms against the promise of a freer, more cooperative species life.

ABOUT TERRENCE DEACON

“Almost everything we do is with respect to something that doesn’t yet exist… All of our actions… are really about that absence. I actually think that this is the essence of what it means for something to be alive.”

Professor Terrence Deacon is Distinguished Professor emeritus at the University of California, Berkeley, and has previously held faculty positions at Harvard University, Harvard Medical School, and Boston University. His research in comparative and developmental neuroanatomy has focused on the human brain, using physiological, quantitative, and cross-species methods. He is the author of The Symbolic Species: The Coevolution of Language and the Brain (1997), which explores how language and the human brain evolved together, and Incomplete Nature: How Mind Emerged from Matter (2012), which examines how thermodynamic, self-organizing, semiotic, and evolutionary processes gave rise to life and mind. He is currently working on a new book, Falling Up: How Inverse Darwinism Catalyzes Evolution, which explores how the relaxation of natural selection and subsequent degenerative processes have paradoxically contributed to the evolution of increasing biological complexity.

Support the show

A huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show!

Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org.

Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org/podcast to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for episode releases and other updates.