I'll Drink to That! Wine Talk

Rod Berglund and his family own Joseph Swan Vineyards in Sonoma County, California, where Rod is also the winemaker.

Rod explains how he first became interested in wine, and what led him to found his own winery in the late 1970s. He also discusses how he met winemaker Joe Swan, who would eventually become his father-in-law. Rod conveys how Joe in many ways stood apart from his California winermaking contemporaries of the 1970s and 1980s, making choices influenced by the changes Joe had seen in Burgundy, France. Those included the use of French oak barrels, an increasing interest in whole cluster, and a focus on low yields from the vineyard. As Rod explains it, Joe's approach to winemaking was a simple one, but he also took seriously the goal of making great wines of limited production. This extended to Joe's approach to Zinfandel, which he made with an eye to high quality, rather than assuming the grape variety had to have a bulk wine destiny. Rod touches on some of the other people that influenced Joe's vision of wine, including André Tchelistcheff, Jacques Seysses, and Kermit Lynch. This episode also features a clip from IDTT episode 460, wherein Joel Peterson speaks about his experiences working with Joe Swan in the 1970s. As the interview progresses, Rod details the changes he has made at the winery and in the vineyard since Joe Swan passed away, explaining the logic of each adjustment. This conversation also touches on topics like the "Swan clone," extended maceration, whole cluster use, tannin management, malolactic conversion for Chardonnay, the specifics of growing grapes in the Russian River Valley, and the makeup of old Zinfandel vineyards. Those wanting to understand the transition of California winemaking practice from the 1960s to now will benefit tremendously from hearing this episode.

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Tomoko Kuriyama is a partner in Chanterêves, a micro-négociant based in Burgundy, which she runs with her husband Guillaume Bott.

Tomoko spent over a decade working in wineries in Germany, then moved to Burgundy in France and started Chanterêves. She explains in this interview the differences between Germany and Burgundy in terms of the winemaking and vineyard work. She also discusses the outlook of the growers in each place, and how those differ. Tomoko worked with growers in Germany like Paul Fürst and Peter Jakob Kühn, and visited German growers like Helmut Dönnhoff and Gernot Kollmann. Then in 2005, she did a harvest at Domaine Simon Bize in Burgundy, which subsequently led her to move to Burgundy and start a micro-négociant there. When addressing topics like botrytis, the nature of a fermentation, brettanomyces, sulphur dose, lees contact, reduction, and tannin management, Tomoko compares and contrasts the approaches in Germany with those in Burgundy. By doing so, she explains both at a deep level. Tomoko also describes how winemaking in Germany and in Burgundy have evolved in the years that she has been making wine. For example, she describes the embrace of infusion instead of extraction in the red winemaking of Burgundy, and why it may be so common today. Those looking to better understand the character of German wine and Burgundy will find a lot of revelatory information in this interview.

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Anthony Hanson wrote the book "Burgundy," which was originally published in 1982, and then subsequently revised by him for another edition published in 1995. He is today a consultant for Haynes Hanson & Clark, as well as The Fine Wine Experience in Hong Kong.

Anthony describes his entry into Beaune (via bulldozer) in the 1960s, and his first tasting at the Hospices de Beaune in Burgundy. He discusses his growing awareness of domaine bottled Burgundy at the time, and how he found those domaine wines to differ from the négociant bottlings that were being shipped to England back then. Anthony talks about his tastings at various Burgundy domaines, with personalities like Hubert de Montille, Jacques d'Angerville, Aubert de Villaine, Jacques Seysses, and Becky Wasserman. He then explains why he began to write his book "Burgundy," which was first published in 1982. That book addressed topics such as clones, fertilizers, chaptalization, blending, the influence of Guy Accad, and the growing amount of domaines bottling their own wine for sale. Anthony subsequently revised that book for another edition published in 1995, and in this interview he explains what had changed in Burgundy between 1982 and 1995, described by him as a period of important changes in the region. In addition, Anthony addresses in this interview topics that emerged later for Burgundy, such as premox and a debate around climate change.

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Jeff Kellogg is the co-founder of Kellogg Selections, a wine distributor in North Carolina. Jeff is a former sommelier, who previously appeared in I'll Drink to That! episode 230.

Jeff discusses his decision to start a wine distribution business, and the financial and personal realities around launching such a business. He also describes a changing demographic in North Carolina, and what that means for the wine market of that state. Jeff weaves in several personal and professional insights from his earlier jobs in explaining what he is up to today, discussing the appeal of working in distribution for a former sommelier. Those who have never worked in wine distribution will likely learn a lot from what Jeff has to say, whether they work in wine professionally or not.

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Jacques Seysses is the founder of Domaine Dujac, based in the Burgundy village of Morey-Saint-Denis in France.

Jacques recounts how he became interested in wine, and what led him to purchase a domaine in Burgundy in the late 1960s. He describes working with Gérard Potel at Domaine de la Pousse d'Or, as well as some of his visits to other Burgundy vigneron, like Henri Gouges, Charles Rousseau, and Pierre Ramonet. Jacques talks about the Burgundy vintages of the 1960s and 1970s in this interview, and explains how the conditions in Burgundy have changed since that time, both in terms of the climate and the market for the wines. Jacques also shares his memories of some of the many people who have worked with him at Dujac over the years, including Lee Hudson, Jean-Pierre de Smet, Ted Lemon, Alain Graillot, James Halliday, and others. And Jacques talks about what he found when visiting California and the Northern Rhône Valley. There is also a discussion of how the current Dujac wines are approached and what Jacques considers the important decisions of his sons and daughter-in-law in running the domaine. Those curious about winemaking technique will find many specifics from Jacques in this interview, addressing topics like whole cluster use for Pinot Noir, cold maceration, wild yeasts, and more.

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Mimi Casteel is the owner of the Hope Well Vineyard, in the Willamette Valley of Oregon.

Her family owns the Bethel Heights Vineyard, also in Oregon. Mimi takes on issues like land use, agricultural practice, and vineyard work in this interview, stressing the importance of a connection with nature. She argues against reductionist approaches in the vineyard, and against a goal of species elimination. She also explains how she has worked to combat phylloxera through ecology. Mimi discusses her larger worldview when making several of these points, which is that complexity equates with security in the natural world. And she delivers a warning about the difficulties that already affect our world, and which she feels may be catastrophic in the future. Topics like oxidation, reduction, and minerality in wine are also discussed within this episode.

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David Ramey is the founder and co-owner of Ramey Wine Cellars and Sidebar Cellars, both based in Sonoma County, California.

David shares his career path in California wineries from Simi, to Matanzas Creek, Chalk Hill, Dominus Estate, Rudd Estate, and starting wine labels of his own. While discussing those various work experiences, David also shares what he learned at each point, and how this would evolve into his winemaking approach today. He goes grape variety by variety, explaining key aspects he has learned about each. David also gives his thoughts on winemaking topics such as whole cluster, malolactic conversion, reduction, oxidation, tannin management, infusion vs. extraction, barrel aging, and more. This episode gives a clear picture of how California winemaking has changed over the decades, and breaks down some key winemaking concepts.

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Benjamin Leroux is the proprietor of the Benjamin Leroux winery located in the town of Beaune, in the Burgundy region of France.

Benjamin explains how although his family was not in the wine business, he found himself working in a winery at a young age. He discusses his internships outside of Burgundy, at wineries in Oregon and Bordeaux, before talking about his start as the head winemaker at Comte Armand in the 1990s. Benjamin describes in detail the winemaking techniques he was using to make wine in Pommard during the nineties, and contrasts that with how he makes wine today and for the last several years at his own winery, also named Benjamin Leroux. He discusses what prompted him to make changes to his winemaking, and explains that every vintage must be approached as its own. Along the way, Benjamin addresses topics like hedging, organic farming, whole cluster, infusion vs. extration, and reduction. He also talks about some key vineyard areas of Burgundy, comparing and contrasting Vosne-Romanée with Gevrey-Chambertin, as well as Morey-Saint-Denis, and Chambolle-Musigny. Benjamin further talks about some appellations that he is particularly drawn to, like Blagny and Saint-Romain, as well as grape varieties like Aligoté.

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Joe Rochioli, Jr. owns the J. Rochioli Vineyards and Winery in California with his son Tom Rochioli and his family.

Joe describes the events on the family farm in the Russian River Valley of Sonoma County around the middle of the twentieth century, when there was a shift from growing various cash crops to growing more and more wine grapes. He discusses his decision to pursue more plantings of grape varieties like Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, and Pinot Noir on his acreage. And Joe talks about what he discovered when working with those grape varieties in the various areas of his vineyards. He also explains how the market for the grapes evolved over time. In particular, Joe describes his relationships with Davis Bynum, Williams Selyem, and Gary Farrell. Take the demographic survey.

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Ken Wright is the founder and winemaker of Ken Wright Cellars, based in Carlton, Oregon.

Ken discusses his work with Dick Graff in the 1970s, and then explains why he decided to move from California to Oregon in the 1980s to pursue winemaking in Oregon. He gives a thorough explanation of the different rock types found in state, and the attributes that different sites bring to a resulting wine. He also goes into depth in explaining his own winemaking evolution, from working at Panther Creek, to starting Ken Wright Cellars in 1994. Along the way, Ken makes several connections between the winemaking and the farming, and explains how one is often the result of the other. In particular, he talks quite a bit about the phenomenon of reduction in a wine, something he tries to prevent. Ken further describes several key vintages for Oregon Pinot Noir, discussing the attributes of those years and their impact on his own thinking.

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