The Listing Bits Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Rob and Greg dig into expectations for the NAR Annual Conference, MLS attendance patterns, and broader industry sentiment heading into 2025. They cover speculation around possible committee decisions, how the settlement fallout is (or isn't) impacting MLS membership and commissions, and the overall vibe leading into the event. The conversation then shifts to affordability, mortgage rates, and the recent proposal of a 50-year mortgage. They close with discussion of a new Zillow/RESPA-related lawsuit, Rocket/Redfin implications, and observations from Zillow Unlock.

Key Takeaways

• Some MLS leaders are skipping NAR due to light agenda relevance, travel issues, and lack of urgency.

• Despite settlement fears, MLS membership has not dropped significantly, and commissions have not fallen.

• Rob argues the industry culture—not MLS policy—has propped up commissions.

• Greg suggests the settlement was overhyped given limited negative fallout so far.

• Conversation on affordability explores whether lowering interest rates would meaningfully increase transactions.

• New Alaska Zillow lawsuit may signal potential RESPA exposure tied to loan-capture strategies.

• Rocket/Redfin may have structural protection due to W-2 agent model.

• Zillow Unlock was described as polished, high-end, highly attended by top-producing agents.

• Vendor experience at Unlock: fewer "newbies," easier conversations, strong integration environment.

Links

• "Stand up for the MLS"

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Rob and Greg discuss Zillow's recent privacy policy changes to Follow Up Boss and the growing debate around data use and agent trust. They examine how Zillow's communication strategy has affected its reputation, drawing comparisons to past acquisitions like dotloop and ShowingTime. The conversation explores whether this move signals a broader industry shift in how tech companies handle customer data, AI integration, and transparency with agents.

• Zillow's new Follow Up Boss privacy policy grants broader access to agent and client data.

• Rob believes the change isn't malicious but calls it a major communication failure by Zillow.

• Greg points out that Zillow lacks a dedicated team for agent-facing product communication.

• The term "mutual customer" triggered agent backlash and should have been caught before release.

• Both agree the issue highlights a pattern of Zillow "revising promises" made in previous acquisitions.

• The discussion raises questions about trust, data usage for AI training, and the long-term impact on agent relationships.

• Rob argues the real strategic risk is eroding trust—industry partners may start adding "yet" to every Zillow assurance.

• Greg suggests this is part of a larger trend across tech companies as privacy expectations evolve

Links

Follow Up Boss changes privacy policy: chaos ensues

Zillow, Follow Up Boss, ChatGPT: How to Protect Your Clients and Build a Moat

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Rob and Greg dive into Sean Frank's Inman article, "NAR and the Real Estate Industry's Relevance Problem." They discuss how outdated MLS technology and excessive bureaucracy are stifling innovation in real estate. From permissioning delays to governance breakdowns, the hosts explore why MLS systems feel stuck in "Windows 95 mode" and debate how consolidation or standardization could spark change.

• MLS permissioning and governance are major obstacles to innovation.

• Outdated tech systems like Matrix and Paragon still dominate the industry.

• Excessive committee layers make it nearly impossible for startups to launch quickly.

• Greg proposes a standardized, simplified data licensing process to fast-track innovation.

• Rob argues the problem stems from bureaucracy, not infrastructure or tech.

• NAR and CMLS lack the power to enforce national-level reform, leaving MLSs fragmented.

• Both agree the industry needs "fair permissioning guidelines" similar to standardized contracts in other fields.

• Inman article: "NAR and the Real Estate Industry's Relevance Problem"

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Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

In this episode, Rob and Greg dive into the controversy surrounding CRMLS's End User License Agreement (EULA) and the debate over MLS data ownership. The discussion begins with updates in the MLS world that brought attention to how CRMLS's EULA—originally updated for two-factor authentication—resurfaced older language asserting MLS ownership of listing data. Rob argues that this fundamental change to broker data rights was poorly communicated, while Greg defends CRMLS, emphasizing the operational benefits and the long-standing nature of the clause. The two debate whether brokers were properly informed, what this means for data copyright, and if MLSs should have done more outreach when the change occurred.

• Origin of the Issue: CRMLS's update around two-factor authentication drew attention to older language asserting MLS ownership of listing data.

• Miscommunication Fallout: Many brokers—and even industry insiders—were unaware of this language, leading to confusion and criticism.

• Refkin's Role: Compass CEO Robert Reffkin's public posts sparked renewed scrutiny, prompting industrywide debate about transparency and data rights.

• Ownership vs. Protection: Rob questions whether MLSs need to claim ownership to protect data; Greg argues it benefits brokers by organizing and monetizing data more effectively.

• Governance Concerns: Rob challenges whether MLS boards can alter members' property rights without broader consent; Greg notes such changes are vetted by directors and attorneys.

• Communication Failure: Both agree MLSs must improve how they notify and educate brokers about major policy shifts.

• Potential Next Steps: Rob suggests bringing CRMLS's Ed Zorn and an affected broker on a future episode to clarify the rationale and implications.

Links

Inman Article

The Education of Mr. Reffkin

The MLS Is Taking a Fateful Step: Who Owns the Listing?

Connect with Rob and Greg

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Rob and Greg dive into the recent OpenAI Developers Conference announcement showcasing Zillow's integration into ChatGPT. They break down how this partnership blurs the lines between traditional search engines and AI "answer machines," debate whether MLS and IDX policies are ready for this shift, and discuss what it means for agents, brokers, and the future of data regulation in real estate.

• Zillow's new ChatGPT integration allows users to search listings directly within AI, sparking debate about IDX compliance.

• Rob compares the current AI moment to Google's early days of web indexing and the initial MLS "search engine exemption."

• Greg argues that ChatGPT's approach is more controlled than Google's, operating as an app within OpenAI's ecosystem.

• Discussion on how AI's ability to filter and evaluate listings (e.g., "best homes for big dogs") goes beyond traditional search behavior.

• Rob questions whether AI's use of listing data constitutes a derivative product under MLS rules.

• Both agree MLS and IDX policies are outdated and need rethinking to address AI integrations and data use.

• Agents who learn to leverage AI will gain a significant advantage over those who resist it.

• The episode closes on a central question: What's the justification for any restriction on real estate data in the age of AI?

Links

Sam Altman Interview

Connect with Rob and Greg

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The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

This special crossover episode brings together James and Keith from Real Estate Insiders Unfiltered with Rob and Greg from Industry Relations. The group dives into Compass' planned acquisition of Anywhere, debating what it means for brokerages, portals, and the future of private listings in residential real estate.

• Collaboration between Industry Relations and Real Estate Insiders Unfiltered.

• Compass' acquisition of Anywhere could reshape brokerage structure—if executed successfully.

• Breakage risk: agent retention is critical to Compass handling its debt load.

• Debate over Anywhere's role: "king" of brokerages or not? Zillow remains the dominant power.

• Zillow's potential responses range from lobbying to starting a brokerage/franchise.

• Private listings could trigger an "arms race," though consumer tolerance is debated.

• Rocket's acquisitions (Redfin, Mr. Cooper) highlight end-to-end strategies but raise adoption questions.

• Large-scale consolidation could increase influence over associations and MLSs.

Links

Rob's Article on 5 Things Zillow can do

Brian Boero's agent count article

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Rob and Greg return to break down CMLS 2025 in Toronto, offering their candid takes on the good, the bad, and the ugly of the event. From bold leadership discussions and MLS operational shifts to vendor frustrations and AI speculation, they cover the hot topics shaping the industry. The episode also dives into the Compass/Anywhere merger, vendor challenges, and how AI may (or may not) reshape real estate.

Key Takeaways

• CMLS 2025 Recap: Despite venue issues, the conference featured strong panels on MLS operations and leadership .

• Bold Leadership: Key discussions included separating associations and MLSs, technology shifts like AWS migration, and communication strategies for major decisions

• Compass/Anywhere Merger: MLS execs showed a pragmatic stance, with little immediate panic over the deal .

• Vendor Struggles: Vendors continue to face slow MLS sales cycles, entrenched incumbents, and a "glacial pace" of change .

• AI's Role: Debate on whether AI will increase the number of realtors (2 million by 2030?) or simply change workflows in MLS operations and compliance .

• Opendoor's AI Push: Skepticism over Opendoor's "AI-first" pivot, with questions about what it really means for flipping houses

Links

Friday Flash: The coming Realtor boom

Letter from The Realty Alliance to CMLS

Kaz Nejatian X post on "AI Native" with Greg's reply

Connect with Rob and Greg

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Rob and Greg dive into the major industry shake-up: Compass acquiring Anywhere. They discuss the financial implications, consolidation trends, the future of MLS rules, and what the move means for private listings, brokerages, and consumers. The conversation also covers how competitors like Zillow, Keller Williams, and eXp might respond.

• Compass acquires Anywhere in an all-stock deal valued at $1.6B, assuming $2.6B in debt.

• Combined, Compass and Anywhere account for roughly one-third of U.S. real estate transaction volume and one in six agents.

• Discussion on antitrust concerns and whether regulators will intervene.

• Compass's acquisition could accelerate industry consolidation, making scale critical for brokerages.

• Anywhere's conservative approach historically shaped industry standards; the acquisition may shift how private listings are treated.

• Debate over whether consumers really want private/exclusive listings and how MLS enforcement may change.

• Predictions that other brokerages will roll out private listing programs to compete.

• Speculation on how Zillow and large MLSs will respond to these shifts.

Connect with Rob and Greg

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In this episode, Rob and Greg discuss the recent assassination of Charlie Kirk and its impact on the nation and the real estate industry. They reflect on the cultural divide, responses from industry leaders, and the broader implications for civil discourse within real estate and beyond.

• Rob and Greg acknowledge the tragedy and its personal and national impact.

• The event highlights concerns about the erosion of civil debate and the celebration of violence.

• Industry responses are contrasted with prior public statements (e.g., George Floyd), raising questions of consistency and communication.

• Discussion on free speech, leadership accountability, and the role of professional organizations in addressing hate.

• Broader reflections on polarization in America and hopes for reducing harmful rhetoric across divides.

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Rob and Greg tackle the pressing issue of housing affordability, reacting to reports that the Trump administration may declare a national housing emergency. They debate potential federal approaches, including deregulation, incentives, zoning reform, and changes to mortgage lending. The conversation also shifts to Zillow's enforcement against exclusive listings and what the data may actually reveal about Compass's inventory.

• Reports suggest the Trump administration is considering declaring a national housing emergency.

• Federal action is constrained by state and local control, but incentives and funding leverage could encourage zoning reform.

• Deregulation, such as loosening zoning restrictions and NIMBY barriers, could expand housing supply.

• Debate over mortgage financing: Rob argues government backing of 30-year fixed mortgages inflates housing prices, while Greg stresses the social good of homeownership.

• Alternative idea: shift federal guarantees from mortgages to construction loans to directly increase housing supply.

• Tax and regulatory approaches could curb institutional investors buying homes for rentals.

• Discussion of Mike DelPrete's analysis of Compass's exclusive inventory trends after Zillow's policy enforcement.

• Conflicting views: Rob sees it as evidence Zillow lost influence; Greg suggests it may simply reflect stale inventory.

Links

Exclusive Inventory Update and Zillow's Catch-22

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