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Would the woes of the real estate industry be resolved if agents were employees rather than independent contractors? At Inman Disconnect, Rob posited that shifting from the 1099 to a W-2 model would give brokers more control and allow them to address several of the fundamental issues in the space, raising the standards of professionalism by eliminating incompetent or toxic agents—without risking their livelihood.
Today, Rob, Greg and Sunny debate Rob’s proposal, discussing the challenges brokers face in mandating trainings and mentoring for new agents who are independent contractors. Greg argues that leadership is at issue rather than employment status, contending that employees and independent contractors alike are only motivated by leaders who inspire buy-in. Rob, Greg and Sunny address the broker’s responsibilities around professionalism in the industry and weigh in on whether or not brokers can afford to fire top producers who are toxic to the business.
Rob breaks down the revenue structure in a brokerage, explaining how the shift to a W-2 model would give brokers more autonomy and abate the head-count-driven model that fuels a lack of professionalism. Listen in as Rob and Greg come to an unprecedented agreement on the role of leadership in raising industry standards and learn how the law firm model—with its division of employee-associates and partners—might be adapted for real estate.
What’s Discussed:
Rob’s proposal that the 1099 is the cause of many industry woes
The history behind the shift to agents as independent contractors
Sonny’s take on the broker’s challenge in mandating trainings
Greg’s argument that the issue is leadership vs. control
The broker’s responsibility around agent professionalism
How great leaders attract great talent
Why it’s difficult for agents to move brokerages
Why brokers are hesitant to fire toxic agents
The breakdown of revenue in a brokerage
How the W-2 structure would give brokers more control
What triggers the head-count-driven model
How the law firm model might be adapted for real estate
Resources:
Inman Disconnect
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
Our Sponsor:
Cloud Agent Suite
Observe. Orient. Decide. Act.
The OODA loop is a tool for decision-making developed by military strategist John Boyd. At the Inman Disconnect Conference in Palm Springs, organizers focused on the Orient piece of the process, collaborating with attendees to design a set of principles to govern the industry moving forward. The question becomes, how might those principles influence decision-making in real estate? And will such a manifesto inspire industry players to look inward and take the necessary action?
Today, Rob and Greg debrief the Inman Disconnect Conference, applauding Brad Inman’s investment in engaging the industry. They discuss the history behind the Ahwahnee Principles, a new approach to urban planning developed by mavericks in the space in the 1970’s, and how Brad is working to emulate the design of a similar manifesto for real estate. Rob offers insight around the impact of developing a set of principles and how that might translate to action and policy change moving forward, and Greg explains how big gains can be made by people in a community changing small habits over time. Rob and Greg touch on some of the principles addressed at the conference, including low-income housing and big data. Listen in as they share their top takeaways from Inman Disconnect and how the principles can serve as a device to communicate about the way we do business.
What’s Discussed:
The intent behind the Inman Disconnect Conference
Brad Inman’s investment in engaging the industry
The history behind the Ahwahnee Principles
Brad’s aim to develop a set of principles for real estate
The real estate establishment vs. industry ‘rebels’
The controversial issues discussed at Inman Disconnect
Rob’s insight around the impact of principles
Greg’s take on the impact of small changes
Greg’s view on big data and privacy
How the principles might translate to action
Resources:
Inman Disconnect
The Parker Principles: A Real Estate Manifesto
Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happinessby Richard H. Thaler and Cass R. Sunstein
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
Our Sponsor:
Cloud Agent Suite
Data is the new oil—and the one with the most insight wins.
As technology becomes more and more important to the industry, many brokerages are justifiably concerned that real estate will go the way of travel and eCommerce, eventually doing away with the agent altogether. Gary Keller is uneasy about the current shift from tech-enabled agent to agent-enabled technology, and that is where he is drawing a line in the sand. But his controversial ‘KW First’ solution has a lot of us scratching our heads…
Rob and Greg are camped out in the lobby of the 2018 MLS Executive Workshop to talk about Gary Keller’s polarizing vision speech at the recent Keller Williams’ Family Reunion. They are joined by Sunny Lake, official wrangler of Rob Hahn and partner in charge of brokerage consulting with 7DS Associates. Tim Dain, President of MARIS, the regional MLS serving Greater St. Louis, wanders into the conversation as well.
Rob, Greg and Sunny walk us through the crux of Gary Keller’s speech, explaining his fear of the shift from tech-enabled agent to agent-enabled technology. Rob explains his take that Garry correctly identified the problem but is misguided in his solution to paint real estate vendors and MLSs as ‘unsafe’ and move to control and protect their own data. They discuss the contrasting ‘better together’ approach being taken by Re/Max and Realogy, addressing why KW would be better served to embrace other players in the fight against agent-enable technology, and Tim explains why the MLS cannot legally ‘sell out’ brokerage data to platforms like Zillow without their permission. Listen in for debate around how much of Gary’s speech may have been theatre meant to ‘rally the troops’ and how his message might impact the upcoming DOJ/FTC talks on real estate data.
What’s Discussed:
Gary Keller’s polarizing vision speech
The pressure on brokerages as profit margins continue to shrink
Rob’s take that Gary identified the problem but misidentified the cause
How much of Gary’s speech was theatre to ‘rally the troops’
Why KW won’t be able to do predictive analytics
Agent hesitation to share data with the brokerage
Why KW’s ‘go it alone’ approach is misguided
Re/Max’s acquisition of booj
Tim’s insight around the legal restrictions on ‘selling out’ data
The ‘open platform’ approach of Realogy, Re/Max
The fantastic culture at Keller Williams
How Gary’s speech might impact the upcoming DOJ/FTC talks
Resources:
“Did KW Just Say FU to Vendors?” on Vendor Alley
“In Which Keller Williams Completely Confuses Me” on The Notorious ROB
“The Keller Williams Vision Speech: Followup and Further Thoughts” on The Notorious ROB
“Keller Williams Sheds ‘Traditional Broker’ Shell for New Data-Driven Model” in Inman
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
After seven months in office as CEO of the National Association of REALTORS, Bob Goldberg has made some bold moves with regard to AMP and RESO-compliance. He’s also scored big on Capitol Hill, lobbying last-minute changes to the tax reform bill. And he’s cut the NAR budget by 20% and made some significant staffing changes. But should we be celebrating Bob as a change agent just yet?
Rob and Greg come to you live from the 2018 MLS Executive Workshop in Scottsdale to argue both sides. Yes, Bob has done more in seven months that we have seen from NAR leadership in quite some time, but there is a low bar for change in the association world. The scope of Bob’s success depends on your basis for comparison, and as you may have guessed, our hosts have very different takes on the issue.
Rob and Greg take on other hot topics in real estate as well, covering the major challenges in making Upstream work, the upcoming Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission workshops around real estate data, and how a set of national standards would impact vendors. Listen in for Rob’s take on potential government mandates and Greg’s insight on the ‘holy grail’ of real estate tech—marrying data standards with permission to sell.
What’s Discussed:
Bob Goldberg’s bold moves as NAR CEO
The low bar for change in the association world
How NAR dodged a bullet with Trump’s tax reform
How the governance model affects the pace of change
How cutting the NAR budget by 20% may impact jobs
The standardization required for Upstream to work
The challenges around MLS vendors and unfunded mandates
The upcoming DOJ/FTC workshops re: real estate data
Rob’s take on making RESO standards law
Greg’s insight on how national standards would impact vendors
Marrying standards in real estate data with permission to sell
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
Our Sponsor:
Cloud Agent Suite
What’s in store for the real estate industry moving forward into 2018?
Some might consider this a supplement to Rob's article on Inman News, 7 predictions 2018: Disco Fever. But it was recorded before the article was published. In this episode Rob and Greg try their hand at anticipating what’s ahead, offering predictions around the outlook for the MLS, Bob Goldberg and the NAR, the housing market, brokerages, technology and the culture of the industry. They begin with the ‘Blame the MLS’ debate caused by Bob’s response to the Inman Upstream article and Greg’s subsequent South Park blog post. Next, they offer an overview of leadership changes among major industry players and work through the big mystery surrounding RE/MAX’s failure to report Q3 earnings.
Rob and Greg speak to Facebook’s entry into real estate, discussing the differences between the social media powerhouse and Zillow as well as the potential for a syndication deal with Facebook in the coming year. They cover how MLS of Choice is likely to affect the industry, the continuing trend toward the tech-enabled brokerage model, and how NAR’s success in making changes to the tax plan might play out in the 2018 campaign season. Listen in for Rob and Greg’s insight on how the cultural phenomenon that is #MeToo might rock real estate and who will make the biggest splash in the technology space this year.
What’s Discussed:
The tendency among industry players to ‘blame the MLS’
The mystery around RE/MAX’s failure to report Q3 earnings
Facebook’s entry into real estate
The potential for a direct syndication deal with Facebook in 2018
Real estate as the ‘last frontier of disruption’
Greg’s insight around the rise of virtual MLSs
How MLS of Choice could trigger the first ‘hostile takeover’
The likelihood of non-contiguous consolidation activity among MLSs
Rob’s take on how HAR could leverage MLS of Choice
NAR’s big win on Capitol Hill regarding the tax plan
NAR’s increase in political spending in 2018
The trend of brokerages to adopt a tech-enabled model
Mergers and acquisitions in the vendor space
The probability that #MeToo will rock real estate in 2018
Who is apt to make the biggest splash in real estate tech this year
Resources:
Andrea’s Upstream Article in Inman
Bob’s Email Response
‘Blame the MLS’ on Vendor Alley
Rob’s 7 Predictions for 2018
Everybody Wins: The Story and Lessons Behind RE/MAX by Phil Harkins and Keith Hollihan
Mike’s Breakdown of Facebook vs. Zillow
Inman Article on Using Facebook for Lead Gen
Brad’s NAR Article in Inman
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
Take a moment to reflect on the past year in real estate… What were the hot topics of 2017? The appointment of a new NAR CEO is probably on your list, along with Zillow jumping into the iBuyer game and Redfin going public. Maybe the Upstream pivot came to mind, or one of the many stories around venture capital and private equity investing in tech-enabled brokerages.
Rob and Greg are taking the time to look back at 2017 and discuss the top five issues that rocked residential real estate this year. They start with the appointment of Bob Goldberg as the new leader of NAR, evaluating his performance so far and how the proposed tax bill will test him in this role. Rob and Greg go on to cover 2017 as the year of the iBuyer, explaining how the model is yet to be profitable and the circumstances under which platforms like Opendoor and OfferPad might become more mainstream.
Rob offers his take on the dynamics between Redfin and Zillow, discussing why he considers the Redfin IPO to be the biggest thing in real estate this year. Greg raises the issue of SoftBank’s investment in Compass, speaking to the influx of capital pouring into the space and the many examples of consolidation in the industry. They walk through the impact of MLS of Choice and what might change as a result of the new policy as well as the question of what success looks like for RPR as Upstream appears to lose relevance. Listen in for Rob and Greg’s overview of the hottest stories in real estate this past year and their insight on what’s to come in 2018.
What’s Discussed:
The appointment of Bob Goldberg as NAR CEO
How the tax reform bill will serve as a test for Bob
What made 2017 the year of the iBuyer
How market conditions and margins impact the popularity of iBuyers
Why Rob considers Redfin going public the biggest event of 2017
Redfin’s employee-agent model and culture of consumer focus
The influx of capital pouring into residential real estate
- SoftBank’s $450M investment in Compass
- Consolidation and tech-enabled brokerages
The significance of ‘MLS of Choice’
The proposal to shut down RPR
Upstream’s apparent loss of relevance
Resources:
Brian Boero on 1000watt
“Why Does Compass Keep Winning?” in Inman
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
Hang around the hotel bar at CMLS2017 long enough (we’re looking at you, Greg), and you will overhear conspiracy theories about ‘MLS of Choice’ somehow leading to a national MLS. The MLS community has long feared that NAR is looking to get into the MLS business, and the rhetoric ‘of choice’ raises alarm bells in the industry. What is NAR’s intent in changing MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43? Could RPR eventually evolve into a national MLS?
Today Rob and Greg dig into the ‘MLS of Choice’ debate with Sam DeBord and Jeff Young. Sam is a member of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board that revised 7.42 and 7.43, and he will serve as the Vice-Chairman of MLS Policy for NAR next year. He also serves as the managing broker for Seattle Homes Group and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth. Sam writes for a number of real estate news outlets, and he was named to SP200’s Top 20 Social Influencers and Inman’s Top 101 in Real Estate.
Jeff Young is the Chief of Operations for Realtors Property Resource (RPR), an NAR resource providing comprehensive data, powerful analytics and client-friendly reports for each of NAR’s constituencies. Jeff has been a REALTOR since 1996, serving in various NAR leadership positions including President of the Michigan Association of Realtors in 2008.
On this episode of Industry Relations, Greg, Rob, Sam and Jeff walk through the details of ‘MLS of Choice,’ discussing how the policy change will offer greater flexibility for brokers and agents in the MLS marketplace. They explore the MLS community’s skepticism around NAR’s intent, and whether there is any merit to the theory that this new policy might eventually lead to RPR becoming a national MLS. Listen in to understand the arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’–tin foil hat optional.
What’s Discussed:
The broker pain points that led to changes in MLS Policy Statements 7.42 and 7.43
The role of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board
The current jurisdictional rules around MLS dues
How ‘MLS of Choice’ provides greater flexibility for brokers/agents in MLS marketplaces
Why the previous policy was endorsed
The arguments for and against ‘MLS of Choice’
Sam’s response to industry fear of NAR establishing a national MLS
The rumors that RPR could become the national MLS
Jeff’s rebuttal concerning the rumors around RPR
The confusion around ‘MLS of Choice’ as a naming convention
The concept of which MLS not if MLS
How the policy change will adversely affect MLSs that don’t provide value
CMLS’s response to the ‘MLS of Choice’ policy change
Resources:
Sam at Coldwell Banker Danforth
Realtors Property Resource
‘MLS of Choice’ Article in Inman News
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
Stakeholders from every facet of the real estate industry are calling for change. Problem is, that’s about the only thing they can agree on. So what happens when you put a broker, a vendor, a consultant, and NAR leadership in the same room to talk about all things MLS? A sometimes uncomfortable, yet revealing discussion around consolidation, data standardization, MLS fees, and the policymaking process.
Stakeholders from every facet of the real estate industry are calling for change. Problem is, that’s about the only thing they can agree on. So what happens when you put a broker, a vendor, a consultant, and NAR leadership in the same room to talk about all things MLS? A sometimes uncomfortable, yet revealing discussion around consolidation, data standardization, MLS fees, and the policymaking process.
Live from CMLS2017 in Austin, Rob and Greg are joined by James Dwiggins and Sam DeBord. James is the CEO of NextHome, a progressive real estate franchise with consumer-focused branding, technology and marketing. Prior to founding NextHome, James served as Chief Strategy Officer and VP of Realty World Northern California & Nevada. Based in the San Francisco Bay Area, James’ impressive resume also includes VREO, a groundbreaking company he co-founded in 2000 to develop web applications for agents and brokers.
Sam is both the managing broker for Seattle Homes Group and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth. In addition, he is a member of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board, and he will serve as the Vice-Chairman of MLS Policy for NAR next year. Sam writes for a number of real estate news outlets, and he was named to SP200’s Top 20 Social Influencers and Inman’s Top 101 in Real Estate.
Listen in as Greg, Rob, James and Sam search for a little common ground when it comes to the future of the MLS. James shares his concern regarding a lack of non-REALTOR members in NAR decision-making bodies, and Sam offers his take on the future of the industry. They cover the political barriers that prevent true collaboration in the industry, how the not-for-profit mandate hinders MLS progress, and the value of vendor-inclusiveness.
What’s Discussed:
James’ message at the CMLS event in Austin
The ongoing conversation among NAR, brokers and MLSs
The continued consolidation of MLSs
NAR’s focus on broker co-op
The vast differences in how MLSs are run
The challenges around a lack of data standardizationFactors that prevent a common data share
The brokers’ contribution to the technical barriers
How a common MLS feed might affect membership
How members of the MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board are selected
-Vetted by leadership
-‘Standard of experience’James’ concern regarding a lack of non-
REALTOR members NAR’s effort to bring in advisors/speakers from other industries to inform the advisory board
Why having your heart in the right place doesn’t mean you are a qualified decision-maker
The challenge of overcoming politics to engage in true industry collaborationNAR’s role in fostering cooperation
How CMLS is setting the standard of vendor-inclusiveness
Rob’s argument that the nonprofit mandate is the biggest issue hindering MLS progress
The pros and cons of raising MLS fees
The excessive fees vendors pay for access to IDX feeds
The benefits of MLS consolidation:
-Less overhead, more profitable for MLS
-Broker costs decrease
-Vendors can reinvest money saved
The painful loss of jobs that would result from MLS efficiency
James’ prediction that it will take outside forces to facilitate change
The value generated by a very small number of agents -Zillow market cap at 7.6B -80,000 agents
Sam’s take on the future of the real estate industry
-MLS will be part of equation (dependent on data)
-Fewer MLSs
-Realtor will remain at center of transaction
Greg’s A Few Good Men analogy
Rob’s theory about the future MLS breakdown
The top barriers to change:
-Politics
-Lack of data standards
Sam and James’ advice to MLS execs moving forward
-Focus on broker priorities
-Be flexible, innovative in delivering
-Discuss pain points with vendors
-Work with other MLSs on same process
Resources:
Seattle Homes Group
NextHome
MLS 2020 Agenda
CMLS 2017
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
We can all agree that raising the level of professionalism in the real estate industry is a good thing – absolutely necessary, even. But how do we get there? And who’s responsible for elevating the REALTOR brand? With Bob Goldberg assuming leadership of NAR on August 1, there is much discussion around what he can do to be an agent of change in the industry.
The gloves come off today as Rob and Greg debate the validity of the NAR CEO selection process and the best way to go about ridding the industry of incompetent, unethical agents. They discuss the strengths Bob brings to the table, how his leadership may facilitate cooperation among key players, and the likelihood of substantial policy change with Bob at the helm.
Listen in as Greg and Rob get fired up arguing who’s responsible for making the REALTOR brand meaningful. It is up to NAR to raise standards and differentiate between REALTORS and licensees? Or do brokers need to be held to a higher ideal when it comes to recruiting, hiring and training agents? Whether you’re Team Rob or Team Greg on this one, Bob has his work cut out for him as he takes over NAR this month.
What’s Discussed:
Greg’s experience working with Bob through eNeighborhoods
NAR’s decision to choose someone from inside the organization
Greg’s sense of Bob as a leader
Rob’s take that hiring Bob may have been a ‘done deal’
Greg’s argument that employing a world-renowned recruiting company is ‘thorough’ as opposed to ‘clueless’
Why Rob contends that NAR should have named Bob as successor two years ago
How the NAR membership might have reacted to naming Bob as successor without selection process
How the interview process affords the opportunity for upfront conversation
Greg’s belief in the validity of the selection process
Why a succession plan is more feasible in the corporate world vs. a member-driven organization
Rob’s frustration with the lack of transparency demonstrated by NAR leadership
Greg’s assessment of how things will change with Bob at the helm of NAR
Rob’s assertion that conflict in the industry is about policy rather than tone
Rob’s skepticism re: the probability of change in NAR policy
The relationship between personnel and policy
Greg’s assertion that bureaucracy comes from the association side rather than staff
The challenges Bob faces moving forward
Greg’s position that brokers are complicit in hiring unqualified agents
Rob’s counter that agents are not employees
Why Rob finds it remarkable that any brokers institute standards
How NAR’s code of ethics runs counter to their acceptance of anyone with a license
Rob’s proposal regarding policy changes that would make the REALTOR brand meaningful
-MLS access no longer tied to membership
-Association staff allowed to take part in ethics hearings
-Remove 1099 exemption for real estate agents
Our Sponsors:
CSS
Corelogic
Resources:
Rob’s ‘Bob Goldberg Era’ Blog
Rob’s Response to Bill Brown’s Comment
NAR DANGER Report
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
It’s the quiet ones you have to watch out for…
Redfin has been quietly dominating since its inception in 2004, and no one in the real estate industry seems all that concerned. We dismiss Redfin as a discount brokerage and debate what to call it – Tech company? Brokerage? Something else entirely? Whatever label you put on it, Redfin is disrupting the way real estate works. And with its S-1 filing, we can finally see just how well the company has been doing. With a sales volume of $16.2B and a 31% gross profit margin, Rob is justified in saying that Redfin has the potential to ‘eat the industry.’
Today Greg and Rob get into the impending Redfin IPO and the potential consequences of its success on traditional real estate. They cover Redfin’s phenomenal company culture and the advantages associated with having employee agents rather than independent contractors – and explain how its software has the ability to capitalize on repeat/referral business in a way that traditional brokerages do not.
Listen to understand why Rob believes that the industry should be more afraid of Redfin than Zillow, and hear Greg’s take on the relative importance of agent relationships versus company culture in shaping the consumer experience. Might there come a day when traditional brokerages would have to partner with (GASP) Zillow to compete with Redfin? As the company goes public, let’s talk about why Rob and Greg think industry leaders should start losing sleep.
What’s Discussed:
The importance of culture at Redfin
Redfin’s recent S-1 filing
-Shares in $12-14 range
-Company valued at $1B
The debate around Redfin’s identity
-Tech company
-Real estate brokerage
-Agent team hybrid
Why there is no backlash against Redfin’s IPO
Rob’s take on why the industry should be more afraid of Redfin than Zillow
How traditional brokerages throw shade at Redfin as ‘discount brokerage’
Rob’s theory that Redfin is going to ‘eat the industry’
Standout stats from the Redfin S-1
- $16.2B in sales volume, #5 in RealTrends 500
- 31% gross profit margin
How Redfin’s software capitalizes on repeat/referral business
Redfin’s focus on data
- Measures customer satisfaction via NPS
How the Redfin culture affects the consumer experience
The myth that only independent contractors can provide high-level service
Greg’s take on Redfin’s limited ‘boots on the ground’
The advantages of employee buy-in to Redfin company culture
Who might be considered Redfin’s competition
The what-if scenario around Redfin establishing a ‘sneak peek’ listing agreement
How Redfin generates traffic to its site
- SEO
- Targeted email
When the heads of large real estate companies should start losing sleep over Redfin
- Redfin offers lower commissions, agents paid based on satisfaction ratings
- Customer demand could force traditional brokerages to enact similar policies to remain competitive
How a company with a multi-brand strategy could incorporate Redfin into its business model
How traditional brokerages might need to partner with Zillow to remain competitive
How reducing costs through automation would allow brokerages to charge less for commission
The way capital acts as an accelerator in the tech world
How having employee agents allows Redfin to fully adopt its technology systems
Resources:
CSS
Corelogic
Redfin IPO: Tech Company, Real Estate Brokerage, or Something New?
Rob’s Redfin IPO Blog – Part 1
Sam Debord’s Guest Blog
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob’s Website
Greg’s Website
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