Industry Relations

If Zillow thought that the industry would thank them for reworking the Open Door model to involve agents in the process of Instant Offers, they underestimated what Rob likes to call Zillow Fever, the intense dislike so many in real estate have toward the company.

Today Rob and Greg are engaged in a rousing conversation about the rollout of the Instant Offers test program and subsequent uproar. They work through the source of the industry’s angst toward Zillow and whether or not it is warranted in this particular case.

Listen in as Rob and Greg discuss the arguments against Instant Offers, how the feature might lend itself to predatory behavior by investors, and how Zillow might have changed their messaging to avoid the blowback. 

What’s Discussed: 

The firestorm created by Zillow’s Instant Offers test program

Greg’s take on how a different naming convention would have tempered agent reaction

How the Instant Offers feature works

• Response to consumers looking for easier ways to sell
• Hand-picked 15 private investors
• Seller can accept investor offer and sell directly, accept offer and use agent to complete transaction, or reject offer and move forward with agent to list on MLS

The weaknesses of the argument that Zillow is duping consumers

The hypocrisy/lack of awareness of agents criticizing Instant Offers

How agents can use Instant Offer as a tool to generate seller leads

The importance of establishing a sphere of communication

The vast number of tools available to help agents stay in touch with past clients

Instant Offers as a potential avenue for predatory investor behavior

• Bad actors might target the poor, uneducated
• May require government to step in with regulations

Rob’s problem with the premise that consumers cannot make best decision for themselves based on circumstances

The potential monster success of the Instant Offers feature

The flaws in the argument that Zillow is trying to come between the agent and the homeowner

The way Zillow priorities the consumer over the agent

Whether Zillow has given up on trying to make people happy or if they were caught off guard by the negative reaction to Instant Offers

How other big web operators might respond to this innovation

Resources:

Greg Schwartz ‘We Come in Peace’

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Our sponsor:

Centralized Showing Service

Brought to you by our very first sponsor, Centralized Showing Services!

Just when you thought the Upstream shift might foster a new spirit of collaboration in the real estate industry, the guns were drawn again with NAR CEO Dale Stinton’s combative rhetoric, as NAR approved an additional $9 million in funding for the scaled back version of Upstream at the Realtors Legislative Meetings in D.C.

Today Rob and Greg talk about the fallout from the Upstream announcement and subsequent doubling down by Stinton at the board meeting that followed. As always, our illustrious hosts each have a unique take on the motives of NAR and how Upstream’s CEO might approach his role moving forward.

Listen in as they discuss the ambiguity around the project now that Upstream will allow brokers to enter their listings into their MLSs and how the change in tactics will affect particular industry players. Click to learn how the antagonistic framing of the big announcement further divided the vendors and MLSs from the brokerages, when it might have been an opportunity to mend fences.

What’s Discussed: 

The three-part Upstream bombshell (dropped at NAR’s Midyear)

• The so-called pivot
• Blaming the vendors
• ‘Live demo’ controversy

Rob’s theory re: the motivation for Upstream

• Planned syndication from the start
• Working to regain control of lead gen

NAR and Upstream’s missed opportunity to generate a spirit of collaboration

The purchase of ListHub as an alternative to Upstream

How eliminating a single point of entry makes Upstream a simple listing syndication dashboard

The industry skepticism around Upstream’s transparency and NAR’s motives

Why Upstream is a top priority for brokerages

How Upstream’s messaging has evolved over time

• Syndication
• Multiple inputs
• Blending data
• Cyber terrorism

Why Zillow is feared by brokerages, MLSs and associations

Zillow’s capability to provide a data management solution

The inflammatory language used by the NAR CEO Dale Stinton (e.g.: vendors and MLSs as ‘cartel’)

The ambiguity of Upstream moving forward

• Still building listing module?
• Just another option?

The Upstream pivot as a win for Zillow

Why Zillow may have purchased Bridge Interactive

How Upstream drove MLSs into the arms of Zillow

The likelihood of a continued alliance between Zillow and MLSs to fight NAR

How Upstream CEO Alex Lange might approach his role moving forward

Post-pivot licensing issues for Upstream

Resources:

Centralized Showing Service

‘NAR Bets on Upstream with Additional $9M in Funding’ by Andrea Brambila

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

If you ask Wiktionary, to swim upstream means ‘to opt for a difficult course of action when a simpler alternative is available.’ And if you ask Rob and Greg, real estate’s Upstream venture is a prime example of doing things the hard way.

Today Rob and Greg discuss the MLS response to the brokerage community’s push for data sharing and the probability of Upstream’s success. They also cover other hot topics in real estate technology news, including Zillow’s new Millennial consumer brand announcement, the extraordinary capital raised by Placester, and Realogy’s recent changes in management.

Listen in as Greg explains how to think about the ‘real estate ecosystem,’ and Rob outlines the inevitable development of a new brokerage model.

What’s Discussed: 

Zillow’s recent announcement regarding its launch of new consumer brand

Why Zillow is likely adding RealEstate.com as a search portal

The real estate industry’s ‘Millennial worship’

• Half of new home buyers under 36

The stereotypes associated with Millennials vs. the reality

What a site designed for Millennials might look like

The staggering capital being poured into the industry

• Placester raised $50M in March, bringing its total to $100M

Placester’s recognition of the aspirational nature of real estate

• Willingness to take any agent

Why Zillow focuses on ‘super agents’ and teams

Placester’s role in the ‘real estate ecosystem’

Realogy’s recent changes in management

How technology undermines the idea of a ‘real estate ecosystem’

The necessity for transformation of the current brokerage model

The mammoth undertaking that is Upstream

The feasibility of Upstream clearing all the hurdles it faces

How MLSs have responded to the brokerage community’s call for consolidation

Rob’s suggestion to add representatives from the broker community to the CMLS Board

Resources:

“Zillow Group to Launch New Consumer Brand” on RISMedia

“Placester Continues Growth with $50 Million Capital Raise” in HousingWire Magazine

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Industry Relations EP007 

Greg Fischer Takes Us Back to the Future with NYC Brokers vs. Zillow

We’re feeling a little déjà vu at Industry Relations as controversy brews between Zillow and brokers in NYC. Everything old is new again with the launch of the premier agent feature on leading real estate marketplace StreetEasy. For the last ten years, agents across the country have dealt with syndication – and it seems New York real estate’s time has come.

Today’s guest, Greg Fischer, serves as principal broker at Fred Real Estate Group in Bend, Oregon, and author of the blog Next in Housing. His unique background also includes work in the tech industry with real estate software companies Move, Inc. in San Francisco and Doorsteps in New York City. This makes him uniquely qualified to discuss the bruhaha as NYC brokers decide whether to pay the Zillow tax or boycott it.

**Audio alert.  Robertson's audio track has an echo effect that we couldn't get rid of in post.  But Fischer and Rob audio (which handle the majority of the discussion) sounds great.***
 

What’s Discussed: 

How NYC brokers reacted to the premier agent feature on StreetEasy

How StreetEasy GM Susan Daimler justified the change

• Home shoppers deserve the option to connect with agent who represents only them

The explicit language used by the StreetEasy product to suggest a buyer agent

Why NYC should seek the counsel of brokerages around the country who have dealt with syndication

How Manhattan real estate does business differently

• Listing agents are used to owning all buyer leads

REBNY’s request for an investigation into the legality of advertising an exclusive listing

The potential to create an MLS in NYC

• Change in compensation model
• Dominance of top ten listing brokers
• Legal ramifications of only sharing data feed with REBNY

The differences among IDX, VOW and StreetEasy’s premier agent

The danger of dual agency

Fischer’s take on leads generated via third-party websites

• Inquiries rarely lead to sales

The evolution of Zillow’s playbook on generating revenue

Why brokerages need to get savvy on how ad tech works

The value of agents as local experts

Compass CEO Robert Reffkin’s concession to Zillow

Resources:

Greg Fischer’s Premier Agent Blog Post

The Real Deal’s Premier Agent Article

The Real Deal’s Premier Agent Video

Vendor Alley Job Board

Connect with Greg Fischer:

Blog

Twitter

This is an odd one.  Rob and Greg are back, and this time they are debating an unusual strategy real estate coaches and trainers might employ to establish credibility – using the techniques of the pickup artist community.

In researching the dating habits and family formation of millennials (for work – no, really!), Rob happened upon a company called Real Social Dynamics, the world’s largest dating coaching company. Among their promotional materials are YouTube videos called ‘infields’ in which their coaches demonstrate the company’s techniques for attracting women in real situations at parties and nightclubs.

This got Rob to thinking, “Why don’t we do that in real estate?” On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg explore the feasibility of real estate trainers generating similar footage to market their services.

What’s Discussed: 

How infield footage lends credibility to the trainer

The legality and ethics of filming interactions with clients

How Hear It Direct sought to give professionals an understanding of the consumer point of view

Why data (# of transactions) may not be enough to establish a coach’s authority

• Numbers demonstrate personal credibility (sufficient for the consumer)
• Infields would establish credibility for the tactics you are selling

The significance of training as a key value proposition for every association

The aspects of an agent’s work that could benefit from infields

• Listing presentations
• In-person lead generation
• Buyer negotiations
• Sphere of influence calls
• Customer relationship management

Resources: 

Real Social Dynamics YouTube Channel

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Rob and Greg are back with yet another spirited debate. This time they explore whether fiduciary duty extends to listing on Zillow. With Zillow’s current dominance, Rob argues that to provide maximum exposure for your seller client, listing on the platform is a must.

Rob and Greg get into the perception of Zillow as a threat as well as the issue of buyer agency. Listen and decide whether the responsibility to act in the client’s best interest means that a realtor is obligated to list on Zillow.

What’s Discussed: 

The current dominance of Zillow

• Quarterly record Revenue of $227.6 million increased 34% year-over-year
• Full year 2016 record Revenue of $846.6 million, up 31% year-over-year

Rob’s argument that fiduciary duty requires listing on Zillow

• Must provide seller client with maximum exposure
• Only exception is when the client has other interests that take precedence (i.e.: privacy concerns)
• Brief your client and have them sign off if you do choose not to use the platform

The potential for lawsuits if agents don’t use Zillow

How the internet has changed the value proposition of the MLS from an advertising standpoint

Why the perception of Zillow as a threat is flawed

• Zillow is a vendor that relies on agents for its existence
• Their continued success depends on the model staying the same

The core complaints against Zillow

• Buyer agency
• Zestimates
• Access to information lessens realtor’s value

Resources:

Inman Report on Zillow

Rob’s Zillow Blog Post

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Rob and Greg return with some news from north of the border and a discussion regarding what the real estate industry in the states might learn from recent regulations imposed in British Columbia.

Rob explains the dysfunction in the Vancouver housing market that led to disreputable behavior on the part of some realtors and the public outcry that followed. He and Greg also debate the likelihood of something similar happening here in the US. Listen in to understand the parallels between the systems in Canada and the US and how leadership in the industry could prevent an analogous government intervention here.

What’s Discussed: 

The similarities between the Canadian and US systems

The Trump administration’s position on regulation

Why regulations are more likely to be imposed on a state (rather than federal) level

The impetus behind the public outcry in British Columbia

• Simmering resentment over a high price-to-income ratio in Vancouver
• The rampant practice of shadow flipping

Why the standard form contract clause allowing a buyer to assign the contract to someone else without seller approval was added initially

How price fluctuations in the Vancouver market led to the practice of shadow flipping

Why government intervention is rarely precision reform

How British Columbia changed the way the regulatory body works

• The Real Estate Council had been comprised mostly of realtors appointed by local realtor associations
• Industry representatives can only account for 50% of the council membership now
• A newly appointed Superintendent of Real Estate has been given much power

The steep fines agents and brokerages face if found in violation

The likelihood of a similar phenomenon happening in the US

• Six of the top ten most dysfunctional markets in the world are in California
• Though the practice of shadow flipping is unlikely here, other dysfunctional business behavior (i.e.: pocket listing) is probable

How the real estate industry could maintain its privilege to self-regulate

• Include non-industry representatives on real estate commissions
• Improve the process of enforcing the code of ethics
• Make an effort to protect the consumer

Resources:

2017 Trends Report

The Globe and Mail Expose

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Rob and Greg return with reinforcements this episode for a round table discussion regarding the

#NARGirlBoss movement and its implications about the necessity of a culture change in the industry. They are joined by Sunny Lake, David Charron and Andrea Bushnell, each of whom have a unique take on the NAR CEO selection process.

Lake is the founder of the #NARGirlBoss Movement, a campaign aimed to help realtors choose the NAR’s next CEO in a transparent, collaborative process by raising awareness of accomplished women leaders in the industry. She has 13 years of experience in real estate, most recently serving as Principal Managing Broker of Coldwell Banker Bain|Seal in Bellingham, Washington. Lake is currently Managing Broker of eXp Realty.

David Charron is the Chief Strategy Officer of Bright MLS, Inc. and President at MRIS Investors in the Washington DC Metro Area. He has an extensive background in real estate, information systems and internet business solutions. Charron has been an industry leader for many years and was the first recipient of the Peter Shuttleworth MLS Executive Award of Excellence. In 2016, he was named by Inman News to the Inman 101 for driving industry change. He has been a key voice in the conversation around the evolving role of the MLS and a proponent of innovative tools, partnerships and business practices.

Andrea Bushnell is the CEO of the North Carolina Association of Realtors, where she has served since 2010. After earning a degree in law from Lewis & Clark Law School in 1988, she was a partner with the firm Burt, Vetterlein and Bushnell for several years before becoming the Director of Business and Legal Affairs for Rentrak. Bushnell spent 13-plus years at the helm of the Oregon Association of Realtors before making the move to North Carolina. In 2016, she received the prestigious William R. Magel Award of Excellence, awarded annually by the NAR to an association executive who has truly excelled.

Listen in as these industry leaders discuss the intentions of the #NARGirlBoss movement, the nominating committee’s approach to hiring a new CEO and the need for a culture change in the real estate industry.

What’s Discussed: 

The intention of the #NARGirlBoss movement

• 800-1,000 people got involved in just one week
• Several participants hold NAR leadership positions (including members of the CEO selection committee)

Women in NAR leadership roles

The nominating committee’s approach to hiring a new CEO

• Seems to be an open, transparent process
• Soliciting input from membership re: the CEO position description

The pressure on NAR to consider capable, competent women for the CEO position

The general sense of distrust of the NAR and resulting grass roots movement

Why a culture change is necessary in the industry

• Decisions made by older white men in leadership don’t always resonate with diverse workforce

Bushnell’s experience as first female CEO of the North Carolina Association of Realtors

• Members felt disenfranchised from the organization
• She spent a year on a listening tour to build relationships and change the culture to make people feel valued

Lake’s effort to shine a light on up-and-coming female leaders who aren’t acknowledged

Resources:

NARGirlBoss Website

NARGirlBoss Twitter

NARGirlBoss Facebook Group

Connect with Lake, Charron & Bushnell:

Lake on LinkedIn

Charron on LinkedIn

Charron MRIS Website

Bushnell on LinkedIn

Bushnell NCAR Website

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Rob and Greg are back with another outspoken discussion about current real estate industry topics. This time on the podcast they attempt to predict how the new POTUS might affect the state of real estate – and how difficult it is to predict what Trump and his administration might do. They cover the evolution of HUD under Ben Carson and his promise to cap or eliminate the mortgage-interest deduction.

Rob and Greg also address the powerful lobby that is the NAR and who might fill the shoes of CEO. Listen in to understand how the ‘Trumpening’ presents a particular challenge for the new leadership of NAR as organized real estate approaches a crossroads.

What’s Discussed: 

The choice of Ben Carson as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development

How a real estate developer in the Oval Office might be good for housing

The affordability crisis in the housing market

• The Trump administration may work to reduce regulations and boost development

The unpredictability of Trump and his cabinet

The lobbying muscle of the NAR

The best argument Greg has heard for getting rid of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the mortgage-interest deduction

• A fractional equity ownership model would spread out the risk

Who might succeed Dale Stinton as CEO of NAR

• The perception of Bob Goldberg as Dale Stinton 2.0
• The argument for #NARGirlBoss

The big challenges of organized real estate that the new NAR CEO must address

The role of personal relationships between the lobby and career bureaucrats

• Many of those career government officials will leave to avoid being a part of the Trump ecosystem

Resources:

Andreesen Horowitz’s Fintech Podcast 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Welcome to the inaugural episode of Industry Relations, recorded live from Inman Connect NYC. Join Robert Hahn, Managing Partner of real estate consulting firm 7DS Associates, and Greg Robertson, Co-Founder of real estate software company W+R Studios, as they engage in frank discussions about current real estate industry topics.

This time on the podcast, Rob and Greg debate the state of the MLS, the problematic relationship between the MLS and associations, and potential systemic changes. Listen in as these industry insiders argue the critical obstacles facing the MLS – unfiltered.

What’s Discussed: 

Rob and Greg’s take on the problems with the current MLS system

The dichotomy between low fees and great products and services

The need to identify and address the MLS’s that don’t follow the rules

• Big brokers don’t have enough power in local communities to affect change

Why MLS execs deserve much credit for the tough work they do in furthering cooperation and compensation

How associations might evolve if divorced from governance of the MLS

The role of politics in local MLS boards

• Making the MLS for-profit would eliminate those conflicts of interest

Upstream’s potential to create chaos in the real estate data marketplace

How emerging leaders in MLS might feel about changing to a for-profit model

The broker narrative regarding the role of the MLS

Resources: 

Upstream

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website