Christoph Gradmann (University of Oslo) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his new book on 20th century tuberculosis in Tanzania seen through the records of Kibong'oto hospital, the main hospital that treated the disease in the region. The conversation begins with some context about Tanzania and its history during and after the colonial period. As a case study, Kibong'oto is important in two ways that comes across the discussion. First, it highlights tuberculosis as a 20th century disease, as opposed to the 19th century disease that appears in most textbooks. Second, it represents a story about biomedicine under difficult conditions - including patient resistance to certain treatments. In the discussion, Christoph points out some of the sources he uses - such as case books - and the changes in their quality over time. Before conclusion, Christoph also reflects on writing his book during Covid and goes into some detail in discussing Covid in Tanzania. 

Wayne Soon (University of Minnesota) joins the Infectious Historians to chat about his work on Taiwan. Wayne begins with a survey of Covid in Taiwan, highlighting state responses and how other countries featured in Taiwan during the pandemic. The conversation then moves back to examine the impacts of the SARS epidemic on Taiwan - including mask-wearing and mask production - and how those impacts would later influence the ways in which Taiwan responded to Covid. Wayne highlights Taiwan’s health insurance model as a source of strength in the Taiwanese response, and uses the Taiwanese case to argue more broadly that democracies, rather than only autocracies, can effectively deal with pandemics. Wayne finishes with some of the personal lessons he had learned during his work.

Jordan Wilson (Georgetown University) and Janet Kay (Independent Scholar) join Merle and Lee to talk about bioarchaeology in light of an article they wrote on the bioarchaeology of the first plague pandemic. The conversation starts off with an explanation of bioarchaeology, its methodologies (including bone identification!) and how does daily work in that field look like. Within the context of the joint paper, Jordan and Janet also explain how they see collaborations in general and working with historians more specifically. They also weigh in on how one might reconcile both disciplines, and speculate about collaborations in the future and their potential. 

Natalie Porter (independent scholar) joins Merle and Lee to discuss her work on Avian Flu in Vietnam. Natalie begins with an explanation of what Avian (Bird) Flu is, alongside a survey of the culling that happens when epidemics occur among birds. Natalie explains how she came to work on this topic, and shares some of her own experiences as an anthropologist conducting research on this subject in Vietnam. She also analyzes the Vietnamese response to such outbreaks as divided between local, national and international levels. The conversation concludes with Natalie talking about her trajectory out of academia and into IT and her reflection on the differences between her old and new roles. 

Bianca Lopez (Southern Methodist University) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her recent book on plague, piety and power in late medieval Italy. Lopez begins with a survey of the impact of the Black Death and subsequent second pandemic outbreaks on Italy and moves on to talk about the specific area she studies - Santa Maria di Loreto. She examines the indirect impacts of plague on the rural area while using some of the surviving testaments to better understand mortality in the area in the late 14th century and early 15th century. The discussion covers the physicality of the site as well as the challenges in making causal connections. Before wrapping up, Lopez also touches upon her experience writing a history of disease during Covid, and reflects on how her pandemic work might help researchers working on other pandemics.

Xiaoping Fang (Monash University) comes on the podcast to discuss his recent book about cholera’s role in mid-20th century China. Fang begins by discussing cholera broadly before moving to focus on its role in China, primarily through examining it as a public health event. Although the mortality of the cholera epidemic was not very high, it was more important in restructuring the Chinese sociopolitical system while also restablishing its legitimacy. Fang touches upon the differential impact of the pandemic and state response on urban and rural Chinese populations. Finally, the conversation moves to Covid and potential linkages between both disease events.

Einar Wigen (University of Oslo) joins the Infectious Historians to talk about the Ottoman experience of plague. The conversation begins with a reflection on the beginning and end of epidemics, as well as the purpose of such discussions - as people bestow importance upon epidemics. It then transitions to plague in the Ottoman Empire - covering its impact as well as how the Ottomans themselves thought about the plague. Einar points out some of the (few) sources and their nature, discusses the differences between impacts on the hinterland and rural areas, and connects the discussion to orientalist stereotypes about the Ottomans. Finally, Einar reflects on his historical work within the context of Covid.

Erica Charters (University of Oxford) comes on the podcast to discuss how pandemics end. Erica begins by pointing out that we tend to pay far less attention to the end of pandemics, reflecting on the ending of Covid in public discourse. Erica then discusses a large project she ran which brought together over 40 international scholars on the end of pandemics which also examined the same issue. The conversation then moves to discuss endemic diseases, as well as the possibility that an epidemic disappears in a sense by becoming endemic and therefore less noticeable as an exception. Erica also notes the role of endemic diseases, for example in the early modern period. 

Robert Zaretsky (University of Houston) joins the Infectious Historians to reflect on his experiences during Covid as he read “plague literature” and volunteered as an aide at a nursing home. The interview begins with Robert reflecting on his thinking during Covid and how he moved from reading history to literature. The conversation continues by moving between Robert’s voluntary work at the nursing home and the books he read upon during Covid. Robert reflects on how he read Camus differently during Covid, drawing parallels between the novel and his own personal experiences. He proceeds to raise some of the existential questions from the book, and recounts how he left the nursing home and what happened afterwards.

Michael Bresalier (Swansea University) discusses his work on the modern flu with Merle and Lee. Michael begins with talking about influenza in general and how the virus is constantly changing. The conversation then moves to focus on the annual flu shot - including its composition and how it is  manufactured. Michael answers questions about a few other topics - including the impact of the 1918 pandemic on the knowledge of the flu in medical thinking, and the classic story of how the flu virus was discovered - where he highlights the invisible institutional framework that enabled the discovery to happen. The interview concludes with a reflection on the work needed to control a disease and the necessary multi-species approach required to do so.