Sheena Chestnut Greitens and Ryan Vest chat with Richard Maass on the topics of his article, "Legal Deterrence by Denial: Strategic Initiative and International Law in the Gray Zone," featured in Volume 8, Issue 3 of TNSR.

Their conversation spans topics such as the importance of defining gray zone aggression, criminalizing tactics, and improving enforcement and attribution to deter such activities. They also touch on real-world examples of gray zone tactics by countries like Russia, China, and Iran, illustrating the difficulties defenders face under current legal and political frameworks.