Intuitive Style

Artist, writer and Caribbean-Colombian woman, Laura De Valencia Kirk joins me for today’s episode. I so enjoyed talking with her; she’s exactly as insightful and fascinating in real-life as you’d expect from her writing. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Maureen

You're listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition, so that we can dress authentically and live fully.

Today's guest is the writer of La Deeply Shallow, a Substack newsletter that somehow manages to be both philosophical and playful, ultimately acting as an open invitation to play with fashion and take from fashion what you wish and leave the rest. You've seen her styling sweatpants like never before, artfully weaving social commentary into posts ostensibly about clothing, and generally being an editorial queen. Welcome to the show, Laura De Valencia Kirk.

Laura

Thank you for having me. I'm very honored to be here.

Maureen

I'm so excited to hear more from you. So, as I already mentioned, your newsletter, La Deeply Shallow, is so beautiful. For anyone who hasn't read your work yet, would you introduce the concept and your approach to writing about fashion and personal style?

Laura

Yeah. So when I created La Deeply Shallow when I started it, it was actually as as a Substack. It started a long time ago, about 5 years ago. But then I kind of abandoned it because I wasn't really sure where it was going, and it wasn't really about fashion. It was more about what I was researching as part of my MFA, as an artist. And then last year I just had this impulse to come back to it and write, and I think there was a lot of thoughts that were kind of condensing, and they finally found like an avenue, and that was La Deeply Shallow. In La Deeply Shallow, I bring to the surface the the importance of fashion which has historically been considered as a feminine topic, and hence not important, you know, as usual. So I honor fashion. I try to demonstrate how transcendental it can be, not only for showing who we are, but also to construct ourselves in the process of getting dressed, which I think it's the core or the most important aspect of it, and my approach is very intuitive. I write every week. I tend not to have things in storage, for, you know, several weeks ahead, which I probably should, because it would be, it would make my less anxious, but it also keeps me on my toes, and writing every week helps me be attuned to the conversation. What's going on, and also how clothes feel in my body. So, it kind of helps me be more present. That's the whole concept. And I think I hope that that's being transmitted and people feel it, and it helps them also be more attuned to to their own act of getting dressed and daily.

Maureen

Yeah, I mean to your hopes—absolutely. There's something kind of almost magical about the way that you write… It's so like, deep and complex, but somehow effortless at the same time, which, of course, I don't mean that you're not spending time and effort on it, but just as a reader, it's so easy to engage with. I just feel this almost like kind of lightness on very complicated topics, and specifically the way that you incorporate social and political commentary into your pieces. I mean, it's just very like it's kind of full circle to hear that when you started the column, it wasn't even about fashion at all, and I can see that, it’s about fashion, but it's about so much more. How do you decide when to incorporate this kind of commentary versus just play with with clothing?

Laura

Well, I think it's all woven into who I am, because I think fashion is not just about the clothes is all kinds of things, and it probably has something to do with the fact that I have multiple interests. And I listen to all kinds of political discourse from all sides of the spectrum, philosophy, lectures podcasts all while I scroll on The Real Real! It's something I do. And I don't know if it's probably a good mental image of how my mind works and how I am wired, and I think most of us are multidisciplinary. We have lived so many lives, we are multifaceted, we, we contain multitudes. And, so, I think that that is just going to transpire in how I write.

There's another aspect of it that simplicity or that lightness that you talk about. I think it's from the fact that I'm always translating, because I'm always, I tend to think in Spanish, and then I translate. So I think there's in that translation. I'm trying to understand my thoughts. But I'm also trying to find a way to be legible in a different language, and I think that also makes me be a little bit more. Just clear. I guess the fact that my language is not as sophisticated in English, also makes it be a little bit more clear.

Maureen

I highly doubt that. [Editors note: I meant that I think her work in English is so sophisticated!]

Laura

I don't know. Maybe that I would love to, you know, to figure out what it is. But I I make a big effort to make myself legible. And it's immigrant experience, and of constantly speaking in a different language….And then, yeah, there's always political commentary, and I don't try to do it. I've always made an effort not to be an activist. I respect activists, and I respect what they do. But I think ever since I became an artist, I understood that I wanted to connect more than lecture or impose a point of view, because I am in a point of my life where I'm trying to understand a lot of things. And I'm trying to think with people and think out loud. And I think when I adopt an activist voice, or when people adopt activist voices, there's kind of like a moral superiority or virtue signaling that it's kind of off-putting and prevents that connection that I'm trying to, that I'm trying to create with my audience.

Maureen

Incredibly well said. And I think again, it's really coming across, you know. I feel that that I'm able to engage with your work. You're allowing for a conversation. And, to your point, a lot of think pieces about slow fashion or or activism generally kind of come in with authority. As you know, ‘this is the way it is’, and ‘this is the way we should be thinking.’ And I think what you do so expertly is that you show that process, and you talk about how you got to where you are, and with all the complexity, and you make space for people to agree or disagree with you and have a different experience. And I think that's part of what's so magical about your writing is that I feel like you're bringing people closer rather than pushing them away. To your point, I almost think it's more successful in the way that it's a conversation. It's about connecting rather than being right. It's great to hear that's a strategic thing. It wasn't just necessarily something that happened. But it's a choice that you're making. And it's really happening.

Laura

Yeah, I mean, and it's I think it's also how I conduct myself. I try. As I said before, I try to listen to different points of view on the same issue, and and try to understand where people are coming from. And, I sometimes I may not agree with with a certain side of the spectrum. I mean, that's fine. We're all trying to find the truth, but I don't think I have the revealed truth yet. So that's why I feel like I am still in that exploration.

It's not that I don't assume positions. I think I have certain positions, but I don't think that my ideas and my positions are my identity. I'm always trying to be open to learning new things and understand where people are coming from, and and I'm glad that that comes across, as as you say.

Maureen

Definitely, I think that's why so many people read your posts every week!

Switching a little bit into your personal style…. I'm becoming more interested in the why behind how people dress rather than what we're wearing. In broad strokes, how do you decide what to buy or wear, or what not, to buy or wear?

Laura

Yeah, I was thinking about this. This was a great question, and I'm…

Today's guest is Corinne Fay from Substack newsletter, Big Undies. Corinne is also the co-host of the Indulgence Gospel with Virginia Sole-Smith, and the creator of SellTradePlus. We have a chat about her love of denim shirts, creating community online, and the importance of letting go of perfectionism so we can have fun with clothing.

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

You're listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe everyone has style. Through conversations with inspiring guests, we explore how to tune into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully.

Today's guest is Corinne Fay from Substack newsletter, Big Undies. Corinne is also the co-host of the Indulgence Gospel with Virginia Sole-Smith, and the creator of SellTradePlus. Corinne, welcome to the show.

Corinne: Thanks, I'm really excited to be here.

Maureen: Can you tell us a little bit about SellTrade Plus specifically and the gap that you are hoping to address by starting that platform?

Corinne: Yeah, so I started SellTradePlus in, I think it was 2018, a long time ago now. And I was really addicted to a few different resale accounts on Instagram. But I was like, I was feeling like I was seeing... Dozens if not hundreds of posts for stuff that wasn't in my size for every one that was in my size. And I also felt like there were certain things that like I needed to be able to buy clothes in that way, such as like garment measurements that weren't always there. And I was also thinking, like, if I went to a thrift store and I were shopping for myself, I would just go, I would walk in the door, I would go straight to the section that was my size. So I was just like, why not have a resale account that's just plus size? So we can kind of narrow in a little bit.

Maureen: And the accounts that you were talking about, were those on social media?

Corinne: Yeah, I was looking at Noihsaf, which used to be strictly Instagram. And, um, there was also, I think there were actually a couple, like, sell/trade slow fashion accounts. Like, I know there was one specifically for Elizabeth Suzanne and maybe a couple others. I was just going to say I was like. I really liked those spaces and I liked the community, but I just kind of felt like I could maybe narrow down a little bit.

Maureen: I wanted to start our conversation today with that topic because I think it can be really hard to understand or explain for someone who isn't familiar with being excluded by secondhand shopping or availability of your size. I think it can be really hard to understand like just how real that issue is and I just wanted to really set the stage. Anyone can struggle with their body image and there's like no hierarchy of who can experience that. But when it comes to actually being able to find the clothing that you want to wear, there are some very real challenges if you live in a larger body. And I was just wondering if you could like share any of your experience with that and, and maybe on the optimistic side, you know, have you been able to set out or have you been able to accomplish any of the goals that you set out to with that platform, being able to, uh, create more of that community that you're looking for?

Corinne: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest and best part of SellTradePlus for me has been the community aspect. Like, I feel like there are so many people that I'm just, like, friends with now, you know? I mean, as... As much as you can be with people from the internet, but um, yeah, and I have, I've also, like, met people in real life through SellTradePlus. Like, I have a little group of friends here that, uh, We'll meet up, like, a couple times a year to do, like, in-person plus size clothing swaps. And a lot of those people I found through SellTradePlus. Um, but yeah, it is, like, a huge challenge. Um... Yeah, it's definitely not over. And I also... This is maybe not exactly what you're asking, but I think there can be so much sort of, like, perfectionism and moralism around, like, shopping in the correct way, like, only buying... Yeah, only buying secondhand or only buying from, like, small ethical businesses. And, like, for me, in my body, like, it's just not always realistic.

Especially because, like, so many of... Those brands, like, you also can't try on, and even if they do offer expanded sizes, sometimes, like, they don't have the budgets to, like, test them on a whole variety of plus-size bodies, so it's just, like... It's a real challenge, and I think the sort of perfectionism aspect, like, doesn't really do us any favors.

Maureen: With that in mind, how, how have you handled that perfectionist mindset? I mean, I know we're all work in progress, but is there anything that you do to navigate that, that perfectionism?

Corinne: I mean, it's a constant challenge. I just try to like give myself grace in the same way that I would like someone, you know, a friend, someone I like and care about. I think we're all just doing the best we can out here. And just knowing, like, we're just doing what we can.

Maureen: Yeah, I feel the exact same way. I mean, I think what I'm trying to do with Intuitive Style is really highlight that there's no right way to dress or participate in slow fashion. There's no right or wrong way to dress, period. I think, yeah, just trying to move away from that perfectionism and I think a lot of that comes from this place of, like, self-compassion, like what you were just saying about, you know, treating yourself like how you might treat a friend totally resonates with me. I think it's a really good way to go.

Corinne: I feel like similar to dieting and diet culture, the thing that that kind of removes from eating and food is the joy element. A lot of we can get from style and fashion and clothes is joy and pleasure and like, fun and novelty. And so if we restrict ourselves in this way of only shopping from the right places or in the right ways….I think we have to leave room for the ability to have fun with it.

Maureen: I'd love to hear more about that because I've listened to quite a few episodes of Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith. There seems to be a real strong theme of seeing diet culture in so many different aspects of popular culture and I was just wondering if you could share a little bit about kind of how that theme arose, and what, what you think about that?

Corinne: So I also host the Burnt Toast podcast with Virginia Sole-Smith. And I think, I feel like she's really, you know, the expert and the person who has come up with the framing of, like... Is XYZ a diet in a lot of ways? I think it's just like we're talking about kind of like it's, it's the way that perfectionism can kind of like pervade all aspects of our lives. And I think, I sort of think of diet culture as like being under the perfectionism umbrella, like it's kind of like one part of that. And I think a lot of other people have sort of like identified that as being like under an even greater umbrella of like. White supremacy or like capitalism, you know, like all this stuff kind of goes hand in hand. But yeah, I, I, I think for me, it's complicated. It's like, how do you hold it? Multiple true things at the same time. Like, it's true, like, fast fashion is bad for the world. And, like, I do want to be able to, like, have fun with clothes sometimes.

Maureen: Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. I know, and it's so, it's so much easier to write, uh, you know, a post about fast fashion is bad, like, end of story. And I think it's so much easier to write that. And then it's so much more difficult to bring nuance to that. Going back to Substack a little bit, one of... my favorites of your posts on Big Undies, you touch on exclusion within fashion Substack and specifically how the most popular writers on the platform linked to high-end fashion with limited size offerings. So can you talk a little bit more about, you know, how you decided to write that post and, you know, how you feel about it today?

Corinne: Yeah, I kind of sat with that post for a while because I was re…

Registered Nurse, veteran, wellness coach, author, and public speaker (phew!), Kori Rae Kovacs BSN RN joins me in conversation today. She shares wisdom from her personal and professional experience, actionable suggestions for how to move past shame to dress authentically, and a new question to help us all figure out how we want to dress.

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Maureen: As a life and wellness coach, you specialize in inspiring others to embrace unique strengths, essentially matching our outsides to our insides. I love this concept. Can you share a little bit of a glimpse into your approach?Kori: Yeah, absolutely. I came up with this phrase about, you know, bringing your insides outsides, or bringing this like matching component of what you feel who you are on the inside, who you are at a soul level, and really getting the opportunity to share that out in the world. I feel like I came across this concept. I'm not really sure where, but I developed it kind of became a mantra for me when I realized that I have this beautiful being inside of me that is just wanting to come out. I had really gone through a really challenging time in my life, and I felt like. I was kind of hiding myself, and when I started reconnecting with this person that I am, you know, this person who has grown through resiliency through things that have been challenging. Then suddenly I realized, Wow, she's a really cool person. I want to bring her out into the world. And so I started matching my outsides to the person that I was feeling and getting to know on the inside. And when that happened I just feel like I was like coming out of a cage. Suddenly my wings, just like burst out, and I was able to really show up in the world as the person that I believe that I am.Maureen: That's incredible. And you talk about this idea of, you know, you've been through these difficult situations, and it almost sounds to me like that inner confidence came first, and then the outside happened second, do you have a perspective on, you know which need? If you can, fake it till you make it? Or does the inner confidence come first? Does it kind of depend? Or at least just speak from your perspective.Kori: Yeah, that's such a great question, because I think we live in a day and age where they talk about, you know, faking it till you making it or putting this front on the outside, but really not feeling confident on the inside. I know I share that story a lot with my audience is that I believe that confidence comes from your self-trust within yourself. It's not something that you can just snap and say, Oh, I feel confident today I'm going to go out and do this thing. I think that feels really forced. And so to me, it's about building trust with yourself getting to know who you are, and then expressing and taking action from that step that truly brings the confidence out in you, because you can feel confident, maybe in in some things, you know, but not in other areas. And I truly believe that you know, if you look up confidence in the, in the etymology. I'm a huge etymology nerd. So if you look at confidence, what that means, it really means a reliance or deep trust in something or someone, and when we talk about confidence about you having a deep trust and reliance in yourself, to be able to go out and be this person that you know that you can be so when you start building that self trust. Then that's really where the confidence starts to grow.Maureen: How have you built self trust, personally?Kori: That's such a great question. I you know a lot of it had to come from a place of compassion. Like, of being human. And I had gone through a really hard time in my life. I became a single mom, and my career took a shift. I was going to school to become a nurse during the pandemic, and things just really fell apart in my life. Trajectory as I was approaching, and I felt a lot of shame and a lot of guilt about the direction of where I was going, and in addition to that, I had gained like pounds. And so there was all these things that had happened, and I really lost my confidence and my faith in myself to be able to go out into the world and show the world who I was. So I feel like the moment that I decided to offer compassion for this place, and in the survival mode that I had been in and what had happened to me in my life. Suddenly it opened up space for me to actually get to know who I was, and when that happened, I started taking steps by journaling and meditating and moving my body in a way that felt genuine to me and that consistency of really finding out who this person was. Suddenly. Now I was like, oh, you're actually a pretty cool kid. I really kind of like you. And so like, day by day, that trust just started to build. And then I was able to go back out into the world and show, you know, come out in my style and come out, you know, and start a business, and and all of these things that honestly, a couple of years ago I wouldn't have had the courage to do.Maureen: I mean, it makes me feel somewhat emotional, you know, talking about that thick layer of shame that just can sit, sit on us, and make it so difficult to like crack through into the person that we actually are. And just I so relate to that. I want to talk more about this idea of self-compassion, and maybe you can talk about that with, sharing a little bit about more about how your relationship with your body has changed, you know, being a veteran, being a registered nurse, a parent life coach, you know, and then also that that kind of weight gain that you experience. Can you tell us a little bit more about? You know your relationship to your body, and how that's changed over time.Kori: Oof! That has been a challenge. I feel like my whole life. You know I was a dancer. I was a dancer when I was growing up, and I just loved moving my body. But as I went through puberty suddenly I became a very curvy girl. I had, I mean, overnight, you know, by the time my freshman year I was a double d, and I had big hips and big thighs. I kind of have a you know, curvy but athletic, muscular body, and it didn't fit the mold of being a dancer. As a matter of fact, my my junior year of high school. I was not. I was not allowed to join the pom squad, because they literally told me I my body was distracting like that. My boobs were too bouncy that it was. It was too sexy like you think about that. And I'm like, Oh, my God!Right, and that there's these messages that just kept telling me that my body was wrong. The very first night I was in Boot camp you brought up being a veteran. The very first night I went to. They made me stand at attention for 45 minutes because they didn't know what to do with me, because I had. I had scored a perfect score on the Asvab, which means I could basically do whatever job in the military I wanted, but I was 2 pounds under their weight limit, and they were like.The first words that were told to me is like Skaggs. That was my maiden name with Skaggs. They're like “Skaggs. You are lazy. That's your problem.”Maureen: Oh!Kori: So, yeah, so there was this and that carried with me. Lazy. You're lazy because they looked at my body, and they said, You know they looked at my weight. They looked at my body, even though I was. Oh, my gosh! I was 146 pounds, by the way, like, really, this is ridiculous here. But they said that I just I didn't care about my body, and that I was lazy, and that message was carried around for a decade, and I internalized all of these messages that my body was wrong, that I was. You know I was also hyper sexualized in in the military. And you know, experienced a lot of things that I shouldn't have had to go through because of that. And you know, after I got out suddenly, I realized I had a lot of feelings about my body, and they were not. They weren't good. They weren't good.

So then, you know, I really did have to come face the music a little bit about that relationship with my body, because it really…

Popular Substack writer, communications executive and 20+ year veteran of the fashion and beauty industry, Sogole Kane joins me for this week’s episode.

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Welcome

Welcome to Intuitive Style. My name is Maureen Welton. Today's episode is a great one featuring Sogole Kane from Another Fashion Newsletter on Substack. I had such a great time chatting with her about her experience with personal style, her concept of intuitive dressing in 2025. Plus, I got some advice from her on how to bring fun back into my wardrobe after getting really analytical about what I was wearing. Sogole also shares her experience turning the corner on postpartum after about seven years of her body being in constant flux, and how excited she is to be coming back to her self and dressing for herself moving forward.

I hope you enjoy.

Maureen

You posted a somewhat recent post about wanting 2025 to be the year of Intuitive Styling. Obviously I couldn't agree more. So, for anyone who hasn't had a chance to read your post, would you just kick us off by sharing what what intuitive style means to you?

Sogole

Yes, absolutely. Well, you know, it's a great question. Because I think the crux of intuitive style is ultimately and what it means to each individual person, because that's the true reflection of intuition. Right? So what it might mean to me could be different, to what it means to you or somebody else. And I think that's kind of the bigger message.

But but really, what I was trying to get across in that post and also just my general way of thinking for this year and beyond, is to really listen to our instincts, to our intuition, to our gut when making fashion and style choices, because ultimately that's where we're going to see the the best representation of ourselves. And usually when you feel like you're representing yourself in the best way possible, that's when true confidence and comfort in your own skin tends to shine through.

And, that's that's the holy grail, right? I feel like the reason we're all here on Substack or on social media talking and about style and sharing outfit photos and engaging in the discourse is because I think we're all interested ultimately in how do we achieve that, that feeling of, feeling 100% confident and comfortable in our own skin and in the image that we are projecting out there into the world.

And I think in intuitive style, the way to do it because, it helps us stay true to who we are and to what's important to us. I mean, I'm getting real deep here, but, like, what do we really value? Not just in style and fashion, which can sometimes feels, you know, superficial, which, I disagree. I think it's not superficial at all, but that's a whole different topic. But I think, just in life, like how, how do we what do we value in life and how do we reflect those values in the way that we are communicating to other people? And one of the biggest ways we communicate to each other is through fashion and what we put on our bodies.

So, that's really what it is to me. It's about staying true to yourself and expressing that internal feeling you have, outwardly.

Maureen

Like, mic drop. I couldn't have said that better myself. Just from top to bottom. I think what I'm starting to view this podcast is almost for the style podcast for people who don't care about style. Of course, knowing that you and you and I both do, deeply. But almost this, this idea of, there's not really boundaries on what it means to be stylish, or at least I think we're moving in that direction as a as a culture. I think we're moving towards this place of style is self-expression and, and giving more people, space to, to dress how they want. And, I think this idea of, of tuning inward and bringing what's inside outside is, is really the best way to kind of, I guess, broaden the circle, of people who care about personal style. I mean, everybody's getting dressed every day, and so why can't more people be part of the style community?

Sogole

Yeah!

Maureen

I don't know if that's ever on your mind too.

Sogole

Oh, well, yeah! I think so, I mean, listen, there's a reason it's the word personal comes in front of the word style is so many times. Right? Because at the end of the day, what we are talking about is deeply personal and and deeply individualistic to every human being on this planet. You know, the way that I interpret a trend or, you know, a pair of pants or the way a look that I'm going for is going to be completely different than how you might interpret it or how somebody else would.

And and that's okay. And I think what's happened in this day and age, you know, of social media, which, by the way, is a is a wonderful thing. I think we're so lucky to live in an era where we have such access to incredible images and ideas and, and, and thoughts, you know, all around us, I think that's such a wonderful, environment to engage with and, and be a part of, but ultimately, I think the most important thing is that we have to we're all editors.

We have to edit our own lives in a way that makes sense for us. And so you're receiving information and imagery and concepts and inspiration all the live long day, right? You know, you're on your phone, you're walking down the street, you're in a museum, wherever you are. You're constantly being fed information. And it's how you process that information and translate it into your own life.

Sogole

That ultimately is what we're getting at when it comes to expressing yourself through personal style. So that's what I think I was trying to also get at in this in this post and in general is that, just because quiet luxury was a huge trend or just because you know, something is popular or you see a lot of people wearing something doesn't necessarily mean that you have to run and go do it, too.

Now, if it resonates with you and if it really speaks to you, that's one thing, because that's you having a authentic reaction to, you know, information that you are processing from the outside world, that's great. Like, that's that's what we want, right? When that happens, that's where the magic happens. But otherwise, when you're when you're doing something just because everyone else is or because it's something that's cool or it's a trend that you love, that you think is interesting, but you don't know how to translate it for your body. That's where things start to get a little bit clunky, right? Like that's where we might maybe lose the connection to who we really are and what we're trying to express. And it gets lost in the shuffle. So I always say, you know, absorb it, but take from it what serves you and leave the rest behind.

Maureen

I think it can be very difficult to, to ascertain whether or not we like something authentically versus just we've seen so much of it that it it's like burned into our brain. Can you share how you might discern that, whether or not a trend is for you versus just something for the world?

Sogole

Oh, I mean, this is like, such a great question. I love this so much. Yeah. I mean, it goes I go back to, the emotional side of it, like, where do you you have a physical or emotional or visceral reaction to something where it really like, like hits you like, and it's so hard to put into words because, you know, at the end of the day, feelings are hard to define sometimes.

But for me, it's when I when I see something: an item or a concept or the way somebody put something together, and I have this like innate feeling that will take over where I'm like, oh, wow, I like that. It gets that like immediate reaction, where it's beyond logic.

It's not me thinking about, oh, well, maybe like, this pair of pants would look great with this. That's all great. And those are good practices to undertake. But that's sort of, you know, step three four and five. I think step one is that initial gut reaction that you have to something. And so if you see a trend or you see an item, you know, I go back to of course, that, that Juju Viera shell …

This week, Stephanie Johnson joins me for a conversation about her Hard 75 Style challenge, how working as a shopping Editor impacted her style journey, and her brief dip into Jersey shore style in high school. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Welcome

Welcome to Intuitive Style. I'm Maureen Welton. On this podcast, we explore the overlap between mindfulness and personal style.

Today's guest, Stephanie Johnson, demonstrates week over week in her Substack newsletter, The Green Apple, what intuitive dressing looks like in practice. In our conversation, we talk about how her professional experience in fashion has influenced her personal style, how she modifies an outfit for a day in Brooklyn versus a day in Manhattan and about her hard seventy-five style series.

I'm delighted to share this episode with you.

Let's start by talking about your newsletter, which is how we met. Would you just tell us a little bit about [The Green Apple], please?

Yeah. So, I started this newsletter, I want to say two years ago and I wrote like Three newsletters and then I, I kind of stopped sending them out. I got really into it again this past summer and I, I've been more consistent, but it was, it was really an outlet for me to write about what I wanted to write about. I worked for fashion digital magazines previously and a lot of what I wrote about was dictated by an editor or client so I just really wanted to write about style in a way that wasn't filtered and wasn't sponsored. So that's what I get to do.

And it's mostly about personal style and just the way we show up authentically in the world and how we dress ourselves.

Awesome. Well, I have really enjoyed following along. So speaking of which, you really caught my eye with your seventy-five hard style challenge. Can you share a little bit more about what that challenge is?

Yeah! This challenge was started by Mandy Lee. I believe her handle on everything like IG, TikTok, and Substack is Old Loser in Brooklyn. Which is a great name. She started the challenge in 2024 as kind of like a New Year's resolution type thing on social media. And it's an iteration on that, like, seventy-five hard health challenge, which I actually know basically nothing about, but I know that's when you're like very disciplined for seventy-five days. So she just kind of applied it to style. The rules are mostly like get dressed for seventy-five days, document your looks, try not to buy anything new. And, and really understand why you're doing this challenge, like set your goals and intentions. So it could be because you want to save money or maybe you want to slow down what you're bringing into your business. Closet or you just want to get to know your style better.

One of the rules I haven't been so great about is she wants you to really rely on your own kind of inspiration. So don't go on Pinterest or TikTok and just copy someone's look. And then another rule is to organize and clean out your closet before you start the challenge. And I believe also after, so you can kind of see like what you got rid of to start and what you ended with.

What about this challenge attracted to you at this moment? Why did it seem like a good fit?

I started getting into getting dressed, which, which sounds so crazy, but I've been working from home since 2019. So I very much fell into a rut, but I've been trying to get dressed for like two years really consistently. And I saw this challenge last year. And it just didn't feel like the right time for me. I just moved in 2025 and I think I was like, okay, you know, I'd already cleaned out my closet. I purged a lot. I'm living in New York now, which feels like you kind of have to up your style game, so I was ready to take it on starting this January.

One thing in particular about your series on this challenge is that you have a particular rating system for how you think about the outfits. Can you tell us a little bit more about your rating system and how you landed on it?

Yeah, that was something I just made up because my intention with this challenge besides like getting out of my PJs every day was to really learn more about my personal style. So I rate things on a scale of one to five when I wear them. One is like, this really doesn't feel like me. And five is like this, this does feel like me. The scale is really just based on like my intuition, which I know you speak about a lot in your Substack and just really leaning into authenticity. So it could be like how comfortable I feel in this and how much this may be leaned into my style words. It's just been a really helpful way to look back on an outfit and, and get a sense of how I felt when I wore it that day.

It's so fun and so unique to see someone talking about rating your personal style with how it feels and how you experience being in the outfit. Just seeing that as such a focus of of you, how you decide success of your wardrobe, it really resonated with me because so much of the time I think it's popular or accepted to dress for other people and how you're going to be perceived. And just seeing your, your me writing felt really innovative and, and also exciting. And I think really it shows where we're moving as a personal style culture towards caring a little bit more about how we experience our own clothing rather than just letting everything be about how we're perceived.

Thank you. That's exactly what I was going for. And I guess I didn't even think of that, but it is a lot about how I feel versus how other people perceive me.

One outfit of yours that really caught my eye, was that some of your, you know, I think in general you would say, right, that your style is on the casual side. And I noticed that there were a couple kind of more lounge outfits that you rated quite highly. There's a lot of pressure that lounge clothing isn't stylish or doesn't involve effort or doesn't convey effort and. I was just curious, can you share a little bit more about your experience with lounge and how and why that would be something that you rate really high?

It's something I'm kind of working through because I'm not a dressy person. I tend to dress very casual. Like one of my style words is like undone. So if something feels too polished, it doesn't feel like me. Very often if I'm wearing something that feels really comfortable and like layered and it's in a color palette, I like, I'm going to give it a high rating and that tends to be my athleisure outfits. Something I am trying to sift through is. Does this feel like a me outfit because I had fallen into such a habit of always wearing this type of clothing or does it really feel like the type of person I am authentically and want to dress as? So I'm kind of working through that. Some outfits that are really casual might get like a five out of five and some might get like a two out of five because I put no effort in and I just kind of threw on sweatpants.

That goes back to the idea of the challenge and your effort overall to to get dressed. Would you share what getting dressed means to you? Like, what is not getting dressed? What is just putting on clothes?

Yeah, it's like a very basic definition. It's getting out of my pajamas because... Literally, that's it. I have had a job working from home for so long that I could like roll over and just in my pajamas start working. So fully in the morning, getting out of bed, putting on a complete new outfit. The days when I basically threw on something that's like outside pajamas. I'm like, okay, you didn't really do the thing today. I've had a few days in this challenge where I've noticed that, but some days I'm like, okay, I'm going to wear these leggings. And I'm going to wear high socks with them and I'm going to layer a sweatshirt with a turtleneck and I'm going to put on jewelry. So, I intuitively know when I'm making an effort and when I'm not and how to differentiate those two.

Would you say, now I'm putting my, my point of view into this, but like to me getting dressed wo…

On this week’s episode, my real-life friend and previous co-worker, Michelle Handy phD joins us to share her expertise in behavioral science as relates to personal style. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

Welcome

Welcome to Intuitive Style. I'm Maureen Welton. On this podcast, we explore the overlap between mindfulness and personal style. Today's guest, Michelle Handy, is a behavioral scientist, personal style enthusiast and yoga teacher. Today, we talk about the overlap between all of these areas, and so a little bit about Michelle's personal style and generally have a fun conversation. Hope you enjoy.

Maureen

Hi, Michelle. It's so nice to see you. How are you doing today?

Michelle

I'm doing great. So happy to be here.

Maureen

I am really excited to talk with you as well. I know we've had quite a few offline discussions around personal style and how that relates to behavioral science. And so I'm just really excited to share what we've talked about with our audience today. And I know that your expertise is so relevant to many aspects of our lives. So let's let's talk about what behavioral science can teach us about getting dressed. So just before we get started, would you please say your first and last name and your pronouns?

Michelle

Hi, everyone. Michelle Handy, pronouns She her hers.

Maureen

To kick us off, you're an experienced behavioral scientist. You're also a yoga teacher and personal style enthusiast. So we have so much that we can cover Would you share what behavioral science is?

Michelle

Yeah. So behavioral science is a field that studies human behavior to improve outcomes like well-being and productivity. And it combines knowledge from many different disciplines, including psychology, sociology, economics, even neuroscience. It's essentially the study of why people do what they do and applying it in the real world to make things better.

Maureen

I love that. And we also used to work together at a Fortune 500 company. And I remember one thing that you shared with me when we were first starting to work together was that behavior is everywhere. I'm paraphrasing, but basically you're like, everything is a behavior. And that really helped click into my mind what you do and why it's perhaps different from other types of social sciences. So that being said, I have a really specific question for you. I'm very online in the personal style space. And, many people aspire to build a wardrobe that aligns with their values, whether that's buying second hand, choosing natural fibers or simplifying or, you know, any host of things. But they may struggle to follow through using a behavioral science lens. What factors do you think can create this gap between, you know, what we're hoping for and what ends up happening with our personal style?

Michelle

Yeah. So, Maureen, you just described something called the intention action gap. This is just a phenomenon that describes that there's often a gap between what people say they're going to do and what they really want to do. What they know is really important for them and what they actually do. It's why New Year's resolutions often fall through. And, healthy eating, working out, going to sleep on time, calling your parents, like whatever we all, like many of us, know that these things are important for us and intend to do it. But when it comes to actually. Executing on these goals. Things in life get in the way. And so in the personal style context, having some sort of a style goal to be more sustainable, for example, or to reduce one's consumption. Like somebody might really want to do this, but then. Struggled to follow through on their goal. And imagine the gap with like an abyss in the middle and. These things called, quote unquote, behavioral barriers getting in the way. There are some things that everyone should know about humans. Like some basic principles. I'll start with three.

So the first principle is that people are cognitive misers. This means that our brains want to use the least amount of energy, and a lot of our lives are run on autopilot because it just makes it more efficient to operate this way and not have to make so many decisions on a day to day. But because we're constantly trying to save mental energy, this can make it hard to be mindful of a habit that we have and to break bad habits. Because that takes mental energy to like. Decide to do something new all the time. So the cognitive miser principle can help to explain why people get caught in a pattern of behavior that they might not like.

Some other principles are that humans are highly emotional beings. We're strongly influenced by our emotions, even though we like to think that we make every decision totally rationally. So imagine if somebody is going to the grocery store and they have like a carefully thought out list, but they're hungry while they're shopping or stressed. Suddenly the chips look a lot more appealing. And same with shopping. It's like or with personal style. We'd like to think that we make all of our decisions rationally, but oftentimes we purchase something because of an emotional reason. Like stress.

And another really interesting principle is that humans are very self-focused while also being deeply social. So what I mean by this is that we have this egocentric bias. That causes us to see ourselves as the main character in our life story. And we're following the hero's journey. So we over represent how things from our own perspective when like we might think that something was a really big deal, but it might not be in the broader context of things. But simultaneously, like so many of our decisions, are guided by our drive to fit in and belong to a group. And so social influences can have the desire to belong and to be perceived well by others, can have a huge influence on personal shopping habits and personal style decisions that lead us to act against our best intentions.

Maureen

Mm. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing. Such a great crash course in behavioral science right off the bat, with the idea of cognitive misers - how we're really emotional make a lot of emotional decisions that could also apply to to getting dressed and shopping. And then also, that context of how, you know, being very social and we want to, you know, fit in with other people. I mean, those are all really important things to know. Just to give ourselves, you know, perhaps grace or forgiveness if we do act out of our own. I don't want to say best interest because that's not really it. But when we aren't acting in line with something that we might have set out to do.

Michelle

Yeah. And the other thing I'll say is that these are like it's really interesting because these principles can explain human behavior in a variety of different contexts from like how we spend our money to how we make our health decisions to how I make decisions about the environment and also personal style and shopping decisions, which is why psychology is such a great field. So that's one thing I want to say.

And the other thing I want to say is that oftentimes people are not aware of like the things, the barriers that get in the way of their intentions and actions. So like we have all these influences on our behavior, but like most people are aware of what's influencing their behavior, but they will. Like if you ask them directly, they'll come up with an explanation and say, oh, yeah, that's, that's why I did this. But that's because their brains just our brains just want to make up an explanation. But oftentimes the influences guiding us to do what we do in everyday life are below our conscious awareness.

Would you be able to give an example? So, like, let's say that someone is like, I bought this thing. You know, what an example be of of rationalizing, right? You know, you're giving a reason for why, you know, what a good example would be like, oh, it was on sale. Like, is that kind of an example of, of of not really understanding the the influence?

Michelle

Yeah. Yeah. Like you migh…

This week, my internet-friend, Kelly Williams joins for a lively chat about the origins of the term Midimalist, how to stay on top of trends without losing your own identity, how Kelly decides what to buy, and her advice for anyone trying to build an authentic wardrobe. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Welcome to Intuitive Style. I'm very excited to share this week's episode with you. I got a chance to sit down and chat with the creator behind Substack newsletter, Midimalist. Kelly Williams and her newsletter are such a delight to follow. She's always sharing actionable and insightful style tips, and she's always cheering up the comments section with just delightful commentary and praise. Without further ado, enjoy the episode.

Maureen: Hi, Kelly. It's so nice to sit down and talk with you today. How are you doing?

Kelly: I am doing so good, Maureen. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

Maureen:I'm so excited. I know we've had plenty of virtual discussions over the last couple of months on Substack, and it's just really nice to learn even more about what you're doing with Midimalist and have a conversation around what it means to dress intuitively. Would you please share your first and last name and your pronouns?

Kelly: Of course. Kelly Williams. She/her/hers.

Maureen: You coined the term midimalist, which to me it signifies you have a great sense of understanding of your personal style and also how your style relates to the rest of the zeitgeist. Could you tell us a little bit about midimalism and how you came up with this term?

Kelly: Yes, happily. My made up word that I've really taken to heart kind of started when I began thinking about style and really being intentional with my style. I loved Allison Bornstein’s three word method, and she kind of led me to Amy smilovic of Tibi and Tibi’s acronym, CMC: “Chill Modern Classic” that I know she designs within.

I spent a lot of time really trying to figure out my three words, like banging my head against the wall, what are my three words? And the way that I initially came to it was trying to look at myself and my clothes. But Allison talks about how at least one of your words is more of an aspirational word. So I started looking at influencers or individual outfits, photos that spoke to me from like an aspirational place. And I found that in each of those images there would be part of the outfit that was sort of minimal and maybe that was like in color or silhouette, but there was always something that made the outfit stand out. And again, it could have been color or silhouette. It could have been like a special piece that that took the outfit over the top.

As I tried to distill that, I was looking at we've got like the Moosgaard sisters on the one side who I did find really inspirational. And they're like, you know, these beautiful Scandinavian twins. And then I also look at like Leandra Medine Cohen, known for her sort of maximalist outfits. And to me, everyone that I really aspire to existed in between those two poles. So then Midimalist came to mind. And as soon as I started to write about it and think about it, it felt like a real landing place for me and my style.

Maureen: That was such a great answer and just so fun to hear. And I mean, personally, the Moosgaard sisters and Leandra Medine Cohen, are just absolute style icons for me as well. No surprise there that we have people in common. But I think it's so important to talk about our style influences because, to me, intuitive dressing is not a rejection of, external influences or, rejection of dressing like other people. It's really about how can we how can we take what's useful from looking at outside influences without trying to copy people or, sometimes that can be okay, but without losing sense of our own identity as we get dressed. It’s fun to hear how looking at external influences really helped you understand yourself better.

Could you talk a little bit more about, how you balance listening to your own style, intuition and then also being influenced by what's happening around you?

Kelly: Yeah. And you know, I'm glad you made the distinction of rejecting outside influences because I find that it's really helpful.

In general, I consume a lot of fashion content because I just like thinking about fashion and style, but I try to consume like a wide variety. YouTube videos, Pinterest images, obviously Substack and then a little bit of visual social media like TikTok and Instagram. I'm not on either platform like with a profile, but obviously I can see the content.

The distinction that I've made for myself is to stay an inch deep and a mile wide in fashion so that I can kind of create a filter for myself.- Kelly Williams

What's happened for me in the past is that I'll get too deep into one person's style or one specific aesthetic, and then you can kind of lose your own thoughts and feelings about whether that's a piece of clothing or a trend, because you see this person do it or it fits your like preferred aesthetic, and then you're sort of lost and you've lost touch with to the point of this podcast, you've lost touch with your intuition of being able to say, Oh, wait, this part of it, actually, that doesn't work for me, but all these parts do or, whatever the case may be.

Maureen: Thank you so much for sharing that because I so relate and I think it's so easy to kind of glamorize someone that we think is stylish online and just be like, Oh, well, they've got it. Let me just do what they're doing. And it'll work for me. And, you know, for me, that's how I ended up having some disordered relationship with shopping in the past where, oh, this person is selling this thing and I'll buy whatever they're wearing and then I'll, then I'll look look good. A lot of those purchases, were not cheap and then also didn't work out. And so that's how, you end up with kind of a revolving door of clothing if you're not careful. I love what you said about an inch deep and a mile wide. I'm going to remember that. That's a great way to talk about the the fashion space.

Let's get into your personal style a little bit more. As I spend more time writing in the personal style space, rather than just consuming, I’m becoming more and more interested in the why behind how people dress versus what people are wearing. Because as we've already talked about, you know, getting dresses is deeply personal. So in broad strokes, how do you decide what to buy and wear?

Kelly: Yeah, such a good question and I think very much a work in progress in this area. But so I think something that's foundationally helpful for me is that I budget. I got married when I was relatively young and so I didn't have any money. I've always been a budget and then kept a wish list for as long as I can remember. And the how of my wish list has kind of evolved, but I'm also a big believer in sleeping on something and waiting to purchase.

I tend to overthink everything, but I don't think I've ever regretted overthinking a purchase and weighing the cost of an item against my lifestyle, against how it fits within the larger context of my wardrobe. I probably say no to like ten things for every one thing that I do. Usually an item that gets bought like fills a true hole in my wardrobe. We could get into the nitty gritty of like a true need versus like what most of us experience, which is like a want, need and need, but it'll fill a true hole in my wardrobe or I just like, feel that visceral attraction. I can't get this off my mind kind of thing. And then a lot of things don't get purchased because maybe I'm unsure of the fit or the color. Oftentimes the cost is too high, so I just like, can't make the juice worth the squeeze. Like if I'm going to spend X amount on an item, I have to really feel like it's going to, like, do something for me, you know?

Maureen: I would love to get into the nitty gritty of how you discern a need from a want. This is a question I've been grappling with for a while, and I have a clear sense of,…

You’re listening to the first episode of Intuitive Style!

Hosted by Maureen Welton.

I’m so delighted to have Dacy Gillespie as our first guest on Intuitive Style. I seriously couldn’t think of anyone better to help me introduce the concept of this podcast. Each episode offers practical tools and real-world examples to help you quiet external noise, trust your instincts, and create a wardrobe that helps you feel comfortable, confident, and truly yourself.

Episode Transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Welcome

Hello and welcome to the first episode of Intuitive Style. I'm your host, Maureen. Together, we'll explore the connection between mindfulness and personal style. We're all searching for a personal style, but what if it's been within us all along and we just haven't learned how to listen? Today's guest is all about teaching us how to listen to our intuition.

Dacy Gillespie is an anti-diet stylist, author of one of Substack’s top personal style newsletters and all around cool person. Please enjoy this conversation.

Maureen

Hi, Dacy, How are you?

Dacy

Thank you so much for having me. It's good so far.

Maureen

Great. I'm so excited to talk with you today. I know there's so much overlap between the kinds of things that we're doing online and just really excited to sit down and talk with you today. Just to get us started, could you just really quickly say your first and last name and your pronouns?

Dacy

Sure. It's Dacy Gillespie and they are she/her.

Maureen

Okay. Thanks so much. So you are an absolute pioneer in the intuitive style space and you've been leveraging principles of intuitive eating and Health-At-Every-Size in your work as a stylist, well before these were well known concepts. So would you just briefly define these terms and share how you incorporate them into your work?

Dacy

Intuitive eating is, I guess you would call it, a kind of a method or a way of of eating that was written about in a book by Evelyn Triboli. And in the book, there are some principles that are outlined. The basic gist of it is that diets restrict what we can eat, and then our bodies don't get necessarily what they need. And when we're not listening to our bodies, we're not allowing it sometimes everything that it needs. And then we also have kind of a rebound. Like if we're restricting, then often our bodies will try and make up for that, like as you know, as they, you know, should naturally. So the concept of intuitive eating is a is about it's about a lot of things, but it's about kind of trying to learn your body's cues, listening to your body, trying to determine what it needs at different points, and not demonizing that and just allowing that.

And generally, when you begin to practice intuitive eating, there's a long period of time, it could be years, where your body is recovering from that restriction and it may feel like it's needing too much, but it's really recovering. Ultimately the outcome, the goal would be to really be in tune with your body's signals and feed it accordingly. There's a lot more, of course, that goes into that.Health-at-every-size is a concept that just simply means that you do not have to be thin to be healthy that people at any size can be healthy, and that we cannot look at someone and judge their health by their size. And again, lots more to unpack there. But, you know, that's the basic gist of it.

Health-at-every-size is a concept that just simply means that you do not have to be thin to be healthy that people at any size can be healthy, and that we cannot look at someone and judge their health by their size.

Maureen

How do these concepts fit in with your approach to styling?

Dacy

If you are trying to change your body or if you are not happy with where your body is, it's going to be very hard to get dressed. It's going to be very hard to figure out your style. It's going to be very hard to detach from kind of societal pressures and external messages about what you should wear, because we get the same kind of messaging from diets, right? This is what you should be eating. Listen to this expert. Ignore your own cues. When I first started working with women to help them with their closets over and over and over, I saw that we couldn't make a lot of progress because everyone was trying to change their body or to revert back to a previous body that they had had. And so, you know, we couldn't we could. But what was keeping women holding on to clothes was the idea that they should be another size. And then if they held onto those clothes, maybe that would motivate them or with shopping or, you know, with shopping, it was like, well, I'm you know, I'm going to deprive myself of clothes that fit until my body fits a smaller size.

When I first started working with women to help them with their closets over and over and over, I saw that we couldn't make a lot of progress because everyone was trying to change their body or to revert back to a previous body that they had had.

And in terms of developing their style, they couldn't look at an image of an outfit or any particular style without relating it to whether it would look good on their body. You know, everything just kind of came back to that. And so it started to be clear to me that we needed to talk about those concepts. We needed to give permission and talk about the fact that, like, your body can be okay where it is. You can work on accepting your body. It's a very long journey. I don't think anybody in this day and age is ever going to get there. But, you know, we need to be open to these concepts if we're going to be able to work on our style.

Maureen

I mean, already it just so aligned with what I have experienced personally and then I've been in the observing of style online space for a while and I just completely agree that it's it's so difficult to really understand or define your personal style when you can't accept your body the way it is. And it's just such a blocker. You have a notable style column on Substack called unflattering. Just one last definition. What does ‘unflattering’ mean to you?

Dacy

Well, I think we have to start first with what flattering means generally to most people and to most people, it's really something that they strive for. Again, in my experience working with women. For many of them, that was the top priority in their clothing. Whether it was flattering or not was more important than whether they even liked it. Certainly more important than whether they were comfortable. And and yet the real if we kind of like, you know, are honestly looking at the meaning of the word, what it really means in our common usage is to use clothing to look as small as possible. And so I just want to reject that concept entirely. And so to me, I wanted to kind of reclaim this idea of something being unflattering. You know, like the idea that you would never wear you would never choose to wear something that was unflattering. I just wanted to push back against that. And I guess, give everyone permission to not have to aim for that as the goal.

MaureenWould you share a little bit more about that idea of giving permission? One thing that I consider sometimes, as I enter the space of sharing what I wear online, there are aspects to being ‘flattering’ that I still resonate with around color or even just sometimes a garment that is flattering is also comfortable because it respects the shape of my body. For example, you know, I have curves. And if I wore something that was boxy and didn't really respect the shape of my body, that also might be uncomfortable because it doesn't fit [how I like]. So would you maybe share a little bit of your perspective on the difference between rejecting unflattering as something that we live within versus accepting the aspects of flattering that also just make sense for us. Do you have a perspective on that?

Dacy

Absolutely. I mean, I think that there are certainly uses of the word that are not kind of aligned with diet culture or, you know, the beauty ideal. And you mentioned a couple of them. Perhaps you …

It’s time to take Substack personal style discourse into the real world—the recording booth!

I’m so excited to share my new podcast series, Intuitive Style.

Through solo reflections and thoughtful conversations, we’ll explore how practicing mindfulness and self-awareness can transform the way we get dressed. Each episode, you’ll walk away with strategies for tapping into your own style intuition, ultimately helping you shop and dress in alignment with your values.

We’ll explore how to dress intuitively—without judgment.

If you’re ready to start listening to your own style intuition, hit subscribe, and don’t miss our first full episode featuring anti-diet stylist Dacy Gillespie.

Let me know in the comments, is there anyone you want me to interview?

Excited to share this new project with you,

Maureen