We speak to the president of NATO's Parliamentary Assembly, just hours after Israel launched major strikes on Iran's military and nuclear sites. Marcos Perestrello is a Portuguese politician and a former secretary of state for national defence in Portugal. He calls for "de-escalation" in the Middle East and more nuclear diplomacy, while also making the case that Iran is a threat to the region and to global security, and that the development of a nuclear programme in Iran would be "an even bigger threat to global security".

We start by asking Perestrello about the NATO secretary-general's calls to de-escalate the situation in the Middle East, following Israel's major strikes against Iran on June 13. "Mark Rutte made a wise appeal to the NATO countries to contribute to the de-escalation of this conflict between Israel and Iran," Perestrello answers, adding that "Iran is not a friendly country of NATO, of Europe. Iran is supporting Russia in its war against Ukraine. It is supplying deadly weapons to Russia. Iran is a threat to the region and to global security, and the development of a nuclear programme in Iran will be an even bigger threat to global security".

Perestrello goes on: "This was a unilateral decision by Israel, which probably feels more threatened by the Iranian nuclear programme. There are, as far as we know, ongoing negotiations between Iran and the US regarding that nuclear programme. So those negotiations should continue to create an environment favourable for the de-escalation of this conflict. We don't need another conflict in the Middle East to add to the situation in Gaza and to the war in Ukraine."

Asked about the current strains in the transatlantic relationship, Perestrello sounds an optimistic note. "The tariff issue is quite demanding for everybody. But on what matters – NATO and the strategic relationship with the European countries – the position of the US administration has been constant and coherent," he asserts. "They are constantly demanding more investment from us – from the European allies and from Canada. They are demanding a stronger Alliance. And, at the end, we want the same. You cannot rely only on one of the allies. You need a serious contribution from all the allies. So on that we agree."

We discuss the defence spending target that is on the table at the upcoming NATO summit in The Hague: 5 percent of GDP.  It is "5 percent, or 3.5 percent plus 1.5 percent, because 3.5 is the real hardcore defence spending and the 1.5 is for resilience infrastructure," Perestrello explains. "The credibility of the target will depend on the timeline you put on it. If you go to The Hague and ask for countries to reach 5 percent of spending in 2026, that's not credible. So you need a plan to get there, a reasonable plan, a reasonable deadline, because we all know that it's very expensive to invest in defence, but it's also much more expensive to invest in war. And to avoid war, we need strong defence and strong deterrence."

Asked how burden-sharing between NATO and the EU should work, Perestrello says: "I believe that the European Union should not have the ambition to replace NATO. The European Union has its role, and NATO has its own role, too. If each one of them does what it knows best, the result will be astonishing. If NATO concentrates on defence, on deterrence, and if the European Union concentrates on helping the member states to create new instruments, to develop industrial capacities, to make the [Stability and Growth] Pact rules more flexible, then the European Union will be stronger and NATO will be stronger."

Programme prepared by Oihana Almandoz, Agnès Le Cossec, Georgina Robertson and Perrine Desplats