In this conversation recorded not long before her death in 2025, activist and systems thinker Joanna Macy joins Jonathan at a Garrison Institute Pathways to Planetary Health forum to discuss how we can stay present and purposeful in a time of ecological and social crisis. Drawing on Buddhism, systems theory, and decades of activism, she shares insights on interdependence, non-linear thinking, and what she calls “the Great Turning”—the shift from a destructive industrial growth society to a life-sustaining world. Macy speaks candidly about despair, climate grief, gratitude, and the courage to feel deeply without becoming paralyzed.

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Produced by The Garrison Institute and The Podglomerate.