Josh Barro is a senior editor at Business Insider, as well as contributor to MSNBC, and the host of KCRW’s Left, Right, and Center podcast.  In a wide-ranging conversation with Isaac Chotiner, they discuss how Trump uses comedy to sugarcoat his cruelty, how to think about the president’s intelligence, and why centrism has been on such a political losing streak.   

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Podcast production by Max Jacobs.

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