Joy Lab | strengthen your mental health with the science of joy

This is it — the finale of our 10-part series on grief, and we're closing with a Gate that might be the most quietly powerful one yet: Other. That's right, the catchall. The one that says: if your loss doesn't fit neatly into a framework, it still counts. If you're feeling it, it counts.

Losses that fall into this category include: Identity shifts, infertility, retirement, faded friendships, the life you thought you'd have — and anything else. We also reflect on the full arc of the series, sharing four essential takeaways about grief, and perhaps most importantly, making the case that grief and joy aren't opposites. They're companions. And working with one deepens your capacity for both.

If you've been putting off your grief because it seemed too small, too strange, or too hard to explain to anyone else — this episode is your permission slip.

This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready.

p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Key moments:

[00:00:00] — This is the final episode of Joy Lab's 10-part Grief Series, beginning with episode 248. Overview of the framework: Francis Weller's Five Gates of Grief, with additional gates from other practitioners.

[00:01:00] — Introducing the Ninth Gate: Other. Examples include: identity transitions, infertility, miscarriage, abortion, aging, retirement, relocating, faded friendships, missed opportunities, a diagnosis. The message of this Gate: your grief is valid, even if it doesn't fit a category.

[00:02:00] — Why the "Other" Gate matters: it gives permission to grieve things we didn't think were grievable. Henry reflects on grief he carried about the life he imagined for his later years. Sometimes the losses that linger longest are the ones we felt we weren't allowed to name.

[00:03:00] — The Ninth Gate as permission: no framework, however good, can contain all of grief. If it feels like a loss, it is a loss. This Gate honors grief's vastness and individuality.

[00:04:00] — Connecting grief to our Element of Joy for this month: Equanimity. Real equanimity isn't about avoiding highs and lows — it includes grief.

[00:05:00] — Real equanimity is the ability to stay present with whatever's happening — joy, fear, sorrow, love — without being swept away. Grief can be a storm, but we can learn to work with it rather than be destroyed by it.

[00:06:00] — How grief becomes workable: by practicing with smaller emotions when they're less overwhelming, we build capacity. Touching grief lightly, letting it move through — that's how the storm becomes survivable. The whole series has been about building exactly this capacity.

[00:07:00] — Four Key Takeaways from the Grief Series:

• Takeaway 1: Grief is not a problem to solve or something to get over. It's a natural response to loss — and loss is part of living.
• Takeaway 2: Grief is communal. Billions of people are working with these gates. You are not alone.
• Takeaway 3: Grief is a skill we have to practice — consistent, regular grief-hygiene rituals help us work with frequent losses before they accumulate. The small "Other" griefs percolating in the background? Name them. Work with them. That's great training.
• Takeaway 4: Grief isn't just about death or obvious losses. Curiosity about how loss touches us is itself a powerful mental health skill. When we're willing to see and hold our losses, we can also see and hold the love around us — and within us.

[00:09:00] — The gifts of grief, Part 1: Henry reflects on what this series — and his own prolonged experience of grief — has given him. Grief opens us to compassion. When you've been through real loss, you recognize it in others. You understand their struggle at a level you couldn't before. That's profound connection.

[00:10:00] — The gifts of grief, Part 2: Grief brings wisdom. You learn what really matters. You stop wasting time on what doesn't. Henry shares something personal: "I am more tender now. More permeable. I feel things more deeply." And because of that, he's more open to joy — because you can't close yourself off to pain without also closing yourself off to beauty, love, and wonder.

[00:11:00] — Grief and joy are not opposites — they're companions. The deeper your capacity for grief, the deeper your capacity for joy. Both require an open heart. Henry's closing encouragement: "Don't be afraid of grief. Let it be your teacher. Let it make you more of who you really are."

[00:12:00] — Closing wisdom from Kahlil Gibran: "The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain."

Full transcipt here

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
• The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248]
• Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249]
• Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
• Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251]
• Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252]
• Breaking the Cycle: Ancestral Grief, Epigenetics, and the Power to Change Your Legacy [part 6, ep 253]
• How Facing the Harm You've Done Can Set You Free [part 7, ep 254]
• How the World's Pain Enters Your Body and What to Do Next [part 8, ep 255]
• Related Episodes:
• Savoring the Present and Overcoming FOBO (it's kinda like FOMO...) [ep 45]
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• The Four Things That Matter Most by Ira Byock, M.D.
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Maier & Seligman. (2016). Learned helplessness at fifty: Insights from neuroscience. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. - 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected].

Visit NAMI for more.

You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org

Grief doesn't wait for loss to arrive. Sometimes it shows up early — sitting beside you while someone you love is still right there. That's anticipatory grief, and if you've ever felt your mind drift to a future without someone while they're still in the room, you already know it.

In this episode of Joy Lab, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek explore the Eighth Gate of Grief: the grief, stress, anxiety, and dread that can accompany an expected loss — whether that's a terminal diagnosis, a parent's cognitive decline, a marriage ending, or even broader fears about the world your kids will inherit. Anticipatory grief can be a mentally and emotionally exhausting experience, and it doesn't get nearly enough airtime in conversations about mental health.

Importantly, this episode won't tell you how to stop anticipatory grief — because you shouldn't. Research suggests it can actually support healing. What it will give you: science-backed tools for staying present, a simple framework for saying what matters most before it's too late, and honest guidance on sustaining yourself through anticipatory grief. If anxiety, depression, or stress around future loss is weighing on you — or someone you love — this one's for you.

This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready.

p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Key moments:

[00:00] — Introduction to the Eighth Gate: Anticipatory Grief

[00:45] — What anticipatory grief is: the grief we feel in advance of an expected loss — terminal illness, dementia, a marriage ending, fears about the future of our planet or our children's world

[01:00] — The extra "frosting" of this gate: dread, helplessness, and worry about what hasn't happened yet

[01:15] — Anticipatory grief and cancer

[02:30] — Anticipatory grief and Alzheimer's

[04:00] — "We are apprentices to our grief, every time" — on never mastering grief, only practicing it

[05:00] — FOBO: Fear Of Being Over — an earlier Joy Lab concept that connects to anticipatory grief and the pull away from the present moment

[05:45] — Normalizing anticipatory grief: the goal is not to stop it, but to understand it

[06:15] — The science: research on anticipatory grief shows it can actually be helpful — those who grieved some before a spouse died tended to have better outcomes afterward

[07:30] — The void that often hits a month after a loss, when others return to their lives; how anticipatory grieving can build a support network that remains

[08:00] — Anticipatory grief and early-onset Alzheimer's

[13:45] — What anticipatory grief is really about: acceptance; facing truth instead of pushing it away

[14:15] — Recognizing avoidance

[14:45] — Anticipatory grief as a gift: time to say what needs to be said, to be present differently, to love fully even while grieving

[15:15] — Practicing loving fully amidst grief; being kind to yourself about grieving while the person is still present; holding both the grief of the future and the goodness of the present — they can happen at the same time

[16:45] — The Four Things That Matter Most (Dr. Ira Byock, hospice physician): Please forgive me. I forgive you. Thank you. I love you.

[17:15] — Why saying these things — even imperfectly — creates completion and reduces regret

[19:15] — The gift anticipatory grief offers that sudden loss cannot: the chance to share grief with someone, say the four things, have the conversation together

[20:00] — Tending to your own wellbeing during anticipatory grief; checking your energy and nourishment levels; you have to take breaks, let people help, do nourishing things for yourself — it's not selfish, it's sustainable

[21:45] — Small ways to refuel: a walk, a phone call, sitting outside, noticing breath; don't wait until you're depleted — build it in now; Letting people support you; they often want to help but don't know how — be specific; "Can you bring dinner Tuesday? Can you sit with her while I go to the store?"

[22:30] — Anticipatory grief is a marathon, not a sprint; pace yourself; stepping back to breathe and enjoy lightness is not denial — it's wisdom

[23:30] — Closing quote from Rilke: "Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final."

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
• The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248]
• Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249]
• Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
• Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251]
• Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252]
• Breaking the Cycle: Ancestral Grief, Epigenetics, and the Power to Change Your Legacy [part 6, ep 253]
• How Facing the Harm You've Done Can Set You Free [part 7, ep 254]
• How the World's Pain Enters Your Body and What to Do Next [part 8, ep 255]
• Related Episodes:
• Savoring the Present and Overcoming FOBO (it's kinda like FOMO...) [ep 45]
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• The Four Things That Matter Most by Ira Byock, M.D.
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Maier & Seligman. (2016). Learned helplessness at fifty: Insights from neuroscience. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Full transcript here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected]. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

Grief doesn't only come from what happens to us directly. In this episode of our Grief Series, we'll look through the Seventh Gate: Trauma — specifically collective trauma and secondary (vicarious) trauma. We'll break down what these are, how they physically land in your body, what the Window of Tolerance really means for your day-to-day life, and what to do when you find yourself overwhelmed by stress. We'll explore super helpful theories like the tend-and-befriend stress response, the power of your hope circuit, the eternal wisdom of finding the Middle Way, and practical guidance for navigating a world that can feel relentlessly heavy.

This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready.

p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Key moments:

[00:00] — Introduce the Seventh Gate: Trauma

[00:48] — A gentle reminder to listen with care

[01:30] — Defining collective trauma: shared psychological impact affecting communities, societies, and the globe; examples include COVID, 9/11, mass shootings, natural disasters, and chronic collective traumas like racism and classism

[02:00] — Defining secondary trauma / vicarious trauma: how negative effects occur through hearing accounts, watching videos, 24/7 news exposure; not uncommon in caregivers, healthcare workers, therapists, and first responders

[03:30] — Why the brain doesn't always distinguish direct from indirect trauma; secondary trauma can produce symptoms identical to direct trauma; we are wired to survive in communities

[04:00] — The losses this gate surfaces: safety, trust in institutions, community connection, shared understanding, and moral injuries

[05:00] — Linda Thai's definition of trauma: "what happened that shouldn't have, and what should have happened that didn't" — and why the second half matters just as much

[06:30] — Minnesota ICE surge reflection; what was missing that could have softened the trauma; community connection as a powerfully protective presence

[07:45] — The tend-and-befriend stress response and why it's especially suited to collective grief

[08:40] — Physical symptoms of collective trauma: brain fog, sleep problems, appetite changes, jumpiness, physical tension, digestive issues

[09:20] — How collective stress lowers individual stress tolerance; why the tend-and-befriend response is so adaptive here

[09:50] — Dan Siegel's Window of Tolerance introduced: the zone for healthy stress response; why collective trauma shrinks the window

[10:20] — What happens outside the window: hyperarousal and hypoarousal introduced

[11:00] — Deep dive on hyperarousal: panic, racing thoughts, anger, hypervigilance; why narrow focus is counterproductive; how sustained overactivation overwhelms the nervous system

[13:00] — Hypoarousal: numbness, flatness, disconnection, apathy, brain fog; the freeze/"bite" stress response as protective feature, not personal failure; the COVID grocery bag arc

[14:30] — Gentle activation strategies for moving out of hypoarousal: small movements, mindful breathing, connecting with safe people, small accomplishments

[15:30] — Learned helplessness reexamined: the original researchers got it backward — helplessness is the brain's default, not something learned

[16:00] — The Hope Circuit: prefrontal cortex overrides the helplessness default when actions are seen to matter; cross-stressor effect of agency

[16:40] — What agency looks like in practice: self-talk, social connections, information choices, body care, small service acts, values

[17:30] — Henry's activating-to-calming spectrum; using the Middle Way framework to self-regulate within the Window of Tolerance

[18:30] — What to do when you've gone outside the window: micro-changes, one small choice at a time; deep rest when needed

[20:10] — Balance is not a destination; the goal is not to eliminate stress responses but to navigate them more skillfully

[21:15] — Self-care during collective trauma enables wise collective action

[21:45] — Closing wisdom from Clarissa Pinkola Estés on standing up and showing your soul

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
• The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248]
• Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249]
• Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
• Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251]
• Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252]
• Breaking the Cycle: Ancestral Grief, Epigenetics, and the Power to Change Your Legacy [part 6, ep 253]
• How Facing the Harm You've Done Can Set You Free [part 7, ep 254]
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Linda Thai's website
• Dan Siegel's website
• Clarissa Pinkola Estés' website
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Maier & Seligman. (2016). Learned helplessness at fifty: Insights from neuroscience. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. - 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected].

Visit NAMI for more.

You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org

In this episode of Joy Lab, we'll explore the Sixth Gate of Grief: the grief we carry for harm done to ourselves and others. We'll draw on the expanded framework of Francis Weller's gates of grief to unpack why this gate is one of the most challenging and most liberating to work with. It's important to note that this isn't about guilt-tripping or self-flagellation. It's about honest reckoning, releasing unconscious burdens, and reclaiming inner freedom. Because grief (not shame) is what actually moves us toward healing, repair, and becoming people who cause less harm.

This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready.

p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Full transcript available here

Watch on YouTube

Key moments:

[00:00:00] — Sixth Gate: Grief for Harm Done, popularized by Sophy Banks and Azul Thomé alongside Weller's original framework.

[00:01:00] — What this gate includes: harmful thought patterns like corrosive self-talk, choices that felt necessary but caused harm, inaction when we could have intervened, and participation in collective harms like racism, classism, ableism, and environmental destruction.

[00:02:00] — A critical disclaimer: this gate asks us to see these harms — not soak in them. Grief is meant to flow through us, not become a stagnant pool. Henry emphasizes the difference between grieving well and getting stuck.

[00:03:30] — Three reasons this gate is especially challenging: (1) the scope of harm we participate in is nearly infinite; (2) the thin line between acknowledging harm and collapsing into shame and guilt; (3) the defensiveness this topic can trigger — and how to touch that lightly and let it go.

[00:05:00] — This is about inner freedom, not atonement. Genuine inner freedom requires an honest look at how we affect those around us.

[00:05:30] — Aimee and Henry on the word releasing vs. "getting over it." You can leap over a thing and still be carrying it. Releasing requires first being able to see what's there.

[00:06:00] — Quote from Sabaa Tahir: two kinds of guilt — the kind that drowns you until you're useless, and the kind that fires your soul to purpose. Working with grief can move us from one to the other.

[00:06:30] — Introduction of moral injury: the psychological wound that comes from betraying our own values, or witnessing others do it. Research shows moral injury is more strongly associated with PTSD symptoms than direct exposure to danger.

[00:07:30] — Moral injury shows up everywhere — not just in war. Healthcare rationing, kids being detained, someone cutting you off in traffic. Untended grief in this gate can mean we snap at small things because they echo larger unprocessed wounds.

[00:09:00] — Henry: grief helps us heal these deep, often invisible wounds.

[00:10:00] — How harm to others haunts us for years, even decades. As social creatures, we're wired to repair harm and strengthen bonds. When we don't act, buried harm turns into guilt and shame — and shame isolates. Grief, by contrast, calls us into community and toward repair.

[00:11:00] — Autoimmune disease analogy: shame is the emotional equivalent of an immune system attacking itself. A healthy response addresses the problem; an overreaction causes more damage than the original harm.

[00:13:00] — Turning to harms we cause ourselves: negative self-talk, lifestyle choices, addictions. No matter the cause, we deserve healing from it. The challenge: in this case, we are both perpetrator and victim.

[00:14:00] — Grief opens us up rather than closing us down. It can hold both the hurt experienced and the compassion for causing that pain.

[00:14:30] — Connection to post-traumatic growth: not about psychological comfort, but awakening. Grief is the ride between pain and gain — and there's no bypassing it.

[00:15:00] — Henry on the role of equanimity (this month's Element of Joy): balance is what allows us to hold two seemingly opposing truths at once. You fully acknowledge the harm and hold yourself with compassion. Neither minimizing nor drowning.

[00:16:30] — Quote from Sister Helen Prejean (Dead Man Walking): "People are more than the worst thing they've done." The goal isn't no harm — it's less harm. And believing that you are more than your worst moment fosters humility, compassion, and healing that ripples outward to others.

[00:17:30] — Preview of the next episode: the Seventh Gate — Trauma, and how grief and trauma intersect in the work of healing.

[00:17:45] — Closing wisdom from Maya Angelou: "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better."

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
  • The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248]
  • Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249]
  • Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
  • Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251]
  • Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252]
  • Breaking the Cycle: Ancestral Grief, Epigenetics, and the Power to Change Your Legacy [part 6, ep 253]
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Sabaa Tahir's website
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected]. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

What if some of the grief you carry isn't entirely yours? In this episode we'll open what Francis Weller identified as the Fifth Gate of Grief: ancestral grief. We're talking about the unacknowledged, untended sorrows of those who came before us: lost languages, severed connections to land and ritual, collective traumas like war, displacement, and genocide. But we're also talking about the science; specifically, epigenetics and how it can help explain how those experiences literally get woven into our biology and passed down through generations, even when we don't know the stories. The good news? What gets passed down can also be healed. You don't have to carry rancid snacks in your backpack forever (you'll get that reference when you listen). And this gate, like all the others, ultimately opens into something more expansive — resilience, power, and the steady ground of equanimity.

This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready.

p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Full transcript here

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
• The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248]
• Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249]
• Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
• Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251]
• Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252]
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• "Something magical happens when we bear witness to each other in grief. Something alchemical. It transmutes the lead of our devastation into the gold of connection. Our own compassion is activated. Our souls are soothed. The narrow circle of our private pain expands and we recognize that we belong to each other. We take our rightful place in the web of interbeing and find refuge." -Mirabai Starr
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. - 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected].

Visit NAMI for more.

You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org

What if the loss you're carrying doesn't have a name — no death, no disaster, just a quiet, persistent ache that something was always missing? In this episode of Joy Lab, we'll look at Gate Four of our grief series: What We Expected But Did Not Receive. Drawing from Francis Weller's The Wild Edge of Sorrow, we'll explore the grief that comes from never being fully welcomed, seen, or celebrated for exactly who you are — a loss so subtle it often masquerades as personal failure. This episode offers a deeply compassionate and scientifically grounded look at why so many of us feel vaguely unfulfilled and how we can actually do something about it. Spoiler: it starts with grieving what you were owed.

This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready.

p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab App.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Full transcript here

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
  • Why We're Doing a 10-Part Series on Grief (And Why You Need It) [part 1, ep 248]
  • Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249]
  • Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
  • Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251]
• Imposter phenomenon series:
  • Imposter Syndrome is a Myth (ep. 175)
  • What Imposter Syndrome Really Is (ep. 176)

• Backdraft: When Being Good to Yourself Feels Bad (ep. 29)

• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• "Something magical happens when we bear witness to each other in grief. Something alchemical. It transmutes the lead of our devastation into the gold of connection. Our own compassion is activated. Our souls are soothed. The narrow circle of our private pain expands and we recognize that we belong to each other. We take our rightful place in the web of interbeing and find refuge." -Mirabai Starr
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. - 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected].

Visit NAMI for more.

You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org

We're diving deep into Francis Weller's third gate of grief: the sorrows of the world. This gate reminds us that collective losses like wars, violence, injustice, and environmental destruction impact us whether we acknowledge them or not. We are interdependent beings, wired for connection, and when we try to shut down our caring to protect ourselves, we sacrifice our capacity for joy, flexibility, and resilience. The challenge is to trust our intuitive drive to care and connect, even when it feels uncomfortable. We'll offer some practical strategies to meet that challenge and to help you stay open to collective grief without being overwhelmed by it.

CONTENT WARNING: This episode discusses gun violence.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts!

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Full transcript here

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab : Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Grief Series:
  • Why We're Doing a 10-Part Series on Grief (And Why You Need It) [part 1, ep 248]
  • Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief [part 2, ep 249]
  • Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250]
• Other related Joy Lab episodes:
  • The Power of Gathering: Science-Backed Ways to Combat Loneliness Through Group Connection [ep. 240]
  • Sympathetic Fear vs. Sympathetic Joy: What Are You Tuning Into? [ep. 238]
  • Where's Your Third Place? [ep. 171]
  • Learning to Love Well: Creating a House of Belonging [ep. 25]
  • Common Humanity vs Isolation (ep. 28)
  • Lonely in crowded places (this isn't a country music song) (ep. 73)
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Skye Cielita Flor & Miraz Indira, The Joyful Lament: On Pain for the World. 2023 Access here
• Learn more about Joanna Macy's work from the Commons Library.
• "Interdependency is not a contract but a condition, even a precondition." — Dr. María Puig de la Bellacasa
• "Let me keep my distance always from those who think they have the answers. Let me keep company, always, with those who say, look and laugh in astonishment and bow their heads." — Mary Oliver
• "The mind pays for its deadening to the state of our world by giving up its capacity for joy and flexibility." — Joanna Macy
• "Don't be afraid of your sorrow or grief or rage. Treasure them. They come from your caring." — Joanna Macy
• "Joy is the practice of our entanglements." — Ross Gay
• "Grief is brought forth by the safety and holding capacity of the communal nervous system. We cannot and should not do it alone. We have evolved to open together and carry each other into the places that scare us just as we have evolved to sing and praise and dance and grow together." — Skye Cielita Flor and Miraz Indira
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here
• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here
• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. - 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected].

Visit NAMI for more.

You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org

We're exploring the second gate of grief from Francis Weller's framework: The Places That Have Not Known Love. Unlike the first gate (episode #249)—which dealt with more of the external losses—this gate turns inward to examine the parts of ourselves we've rejected, hidden, or banished in our need to belong. And this isn't about toxic positivity or pretending everything is fine. It's about integrating the messy, uncomfortable, angry, scared, "too much" parts of yourself—and discovering that when you love what you've rejected, it loses its grip over you.

p.s. Find your Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch on YouTube

Sources and notes:

• Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Imposter phenomenon series:
  • Imposter Syndrome is a Myth (ep. 175)
  • What Imposter Syndrome Really Is (ep. 176)
• Self-connection series:
  • Making Self-Connection Your Superpower in 2026 [ep. 243]
  • The Practice of Self-Awareness: Why You're Worth Knowing [ep. 244]
  • Stop Waiting to Accept Yourself: The Truth About Unconditional Self-Acceptance [ep. 245]
  • The Power of Self-Alignment & Reclaiming Your True Self [ep. 246]
• Self-acceptance episodes:
  • No Need to Hurry, No Need to Sparkle, No Need to Be Anybody But Yourself [ep. 160]
  • Accept Yourself Just As You Are & Then You Can Change [ep. 150]
  • How to Change: External vs Internal Motivators [ep. 145]
• Authenticity series:
  • Unmasking Your True Self: Exploring Authenticity and Awe [ep. 216]
  • Embrace Your True Self: Accepted, Connected, & In The Game [ep. 217]
  • The Road Most Travelled: Awakening Through Suffering [ep. 218]
  • Follow Your Bliss: Awakening to Joy [ep. 219]
  • The Still Small Voice: Awakening with Soulfulness [ep. 220]
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller

Full notes, sources, and full transcript available here.

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected]. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

"Everything we love, we will lose" is a truth about grief that can challenge our emotional resilience. However, facing this truth of impermanence can actually support mood, boost gratitude, support more positive emotions, and combat loneliness by creating deeper satisfaction with relationships.

We'll explore this first gate of grief proposed by Francis Weller: "Everything we love, we will lose." This isn't just another depressing truth about life—it's a surprisingly liberating gateway to deeper love, presence, and joy. We'll share some stories and practical wisdom about how savoring practices can help us hold both love and loss simultaneously. Most importantly, we'll highlight why grief is a skill, not just a feeling, and you'll learn a simple five-minute micro-ritual for tending to loss before it accumulates. This conversation weaves together Buddhist teachings on impermanence, neuroscience research on grief and savoring, and the vital reminder that grief is absolutely a team sport.

p.s. Find your Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials:

Instagram | LinkedIn

Watch this episode on YouTube

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
  • "Grief is not a feeling, grief is a skill." — Francis Weller
  • "Ritual is a maintenance practice that offers us the means of tending wounds and sorrows, for offering gratitude, allowing our psyches regular periods of release and renewal." — Francis Weller
• "Half of any person is wrong and weak and off the beaten path. Half the other half is dancing and laughing and swimming in the invisible joy." — Rumi
• "We are all the walking wounded in a world that is a war zone. Everything we love will be taken from us. Everything. Last of all life itself. Yet this reality does not diminish love. It shows us that loving is the most important business." -Christina Pinkola Estés' Website
• Skye Cielita Flor & Miraz Indira, The Joyful Lament: On Pain for the World. 2023 Access here
• Learn more about Joanna Macy's work from the Commons Library.
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here

• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here

• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chiabu.2024.107125
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

More Grief & Savoring Episodes:

- Ep. 252: Fourth Gate: What We Expected But Did Not Receive

- Ep. 251: Third Gate: The Sorrows of the World

- Ep. 250: Second Gate: The Places That Have Not Known Love

- Ep. 248: Grief Series Introduction

- Ep. 232: Facing Pain and Finding Freedom

- Ep. 15: How Can We Respond to Tragic Loss?

- Ep. 198: Unfractured Focus: Mastering the Art of Savoring in a Distracted World

Key moments:

[00:00:00] Introduction: The First Gate of Grief - Everything We Love, We Will Lose

[00:00:46] What This Gate Includes: Death, Loss of Place, Lost Abilities

[00:01:12] The Worm Dance Story: Physical Abilities We Lose Over Time

[00:02:05] Why This Is the Most Common Entry Point to Grief

[00:02:41] Understanding Impermanence: A Beautiful Yet Difficult Truth

[00:03:21] Jack Kornfield's Teacher & The Already Broken Teacup Story

[00:04:22] Buddhist Teachings on Attachment and Holding Things Loosely

[00:05:22] Western Culture's Denial of Impermanence (Anti-Aging, Storage Units)

[00:06:14] Research: How Reflecting on Impermanence Increases Gratitude

[00:06:47] The Freedom of "This Too Shall Pass" - Even Grief

[00:07:35] Henry's Personal Story: Discovering His Wife's Alzheimer's Diagnosis

[00:12:48] "I Was Not Up to This" - When Grief Takes You Down

[00:13:28] Getting a PhD in Grief: How Loss Creates Capacity for Joy

[00:14:10] Swimming in the Invisible Joy: Rumi's Poem on Wholeness

[00:15:12] Grief Training Like Three-Point Shooting: Missing 70% of the Time

[00:16:21] Grief Is a Team Sport - You Have Teammates Who Have Your Back

[00:17:03] Grief Is a Skill, Not Just a Feeling (Francis Weller)

[00:17:28] The Skill of the First Gate: Learning to Love More Deeply

[00:17:52] The Friend Who Won't Get a Dog: Closing Your Heart to Avoid Pain

[00:18:27] Losing Pets: Research Shows It's as Tough as Losing Family

[00:19:01] "Grief Is a Crafty Little Effer" - Harrison Ford Quote from Shrinking

[00:19:35] Why We Need Love to Move Through Grief

[00:20:18] Savoring as Prep Work for Loss: Holding Love and Loss Together

[00:20:55] Grief Rituals as Maintenance Practice (Like Flossing)

[00:21:40] Francis Weller on Ritual: Tending Wounds and Allowing Renewal

[00:22:05] The Five-Minute Micro-Ritual for Daily Grief Work

[00:22:30] Step 1: Name the Grief (Start Small)

[00:23:00] Step 2: Feel Where Grief Shows Up in Your Body

[00:23:18] Allow Your Body to Move With Grief (Cry, Stomp, Laugh)

[00:24:00] Step 3: End With Something Nourishing That Engages Your Senses

[00:24:42] Creating Safety Around Grief Work: Re-patterning Our Response

[00:25:35] Why Grief Is Hard Work and the Fear of Not Coming Out

[00:26:14] Nourishment From Community: Grief Is Not a Solo Journey

[00:26:42] Caregivers Can Get Lost in the Equation Too

[00:27:18] Reaching Out for Support: Asking for What You Need

[00:27:43] Closing Quote: Clarissa Pinkola Estés on Loving as the Most Important Business

[00:28:20] Outro & Resources: Visit JoyLab.coach

Questions this episode was made for:

A: This episode introduces the grief micro-ritual — five minutes of naming, feeling, and then savoring something nourishing — a practice that trains you to let grief move through without breaking you down, starting with the small losses.

A: Yes — the Buddhist teaching of impermanence shows how cherishing without clinging allows you to love fully in the present; this episode explains the research and offers practical ways to hold both love and loss simultaneously.

Full transcript available here

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected]. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

Grief and joy are not opposites. This is the start of our holistic, ten-part series on grief, and we'll make the case for why that belongs in a joy-focused, positive psychology podcast: because you cannot have one without the other, and because right now, as a community, we are carrying more collective grief than most of us know how to hold.

Henry and Aimee frame the series around Francis Weller's "Gates of Grief" model. It's a more flexible, honest alternative to the five stages of grief. Grief doesn't arrive in stages. It enters through doorways, whether we invite it or not. And it travels with joy. The gates they'll explore over the series include everything we love we will lose, the places that have not known love, the sorrows of the world, what we expected but didn't receive, ancestral grief, grief for harm done, trauma, anticipatory grief, and other — a catchall that acknowledges grief is too vast and too personal to fully categorize.

But first, the marinating metaphor: Henry says this season of grief has "tenderized" him, softened him, maybe even made him more interesting. And Aimee introduces the key insight that will shape the whole series — a curvilinear relationship between grief and growth. Too little grief work leaves things stuck. Too much marinating breaks you down. The sweet spot is in the middle: let it in, let it do its work, then come up for air.

p.s. Find your Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible).

Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app:

Spotify | Apple | YouTube

Watch this episode on YouTube

Key moments:

[00:00:00] Introduction

• Why a joy podcast is tackling grief
• The relationship between savoring and grief work

[00:03:00] Telling the Truth

• Henry's reflection on Buddhist teaching: "First you have to tell the truth"
• Personal experiences with grief that led to this series
• The marinating metaphor: how grief tenderizes and enriches us

[00:05:00] Four Reasons for This Series

1. We're living through collective grief right now
2. The US doesn't do grief well—we treat it like an inconvenience
3. Grief has become too individualized (we need connection to process it)
4. Grief doesn't follow neat stages—it's complex and unique

[00:08:00] Francis Weller's Gates of Grief

• The "gates" framework
• How grief enters through gates (with or without invitation)
• Why locking out grief also locks out joy and love

[00:10:00] Opening vs. Closing Down

• When it's okay to pause grief work
• The importance of not over-marinating
• The curvilinear relationship: sweet spot between too little and too much grief processing

[00:14:00] Series Overview Preview of the nine gates we'll explore:

1. Everything we love, we will lose
2. The places that have not known love
3. The sorrows of the world (collective grief)
4. What we expected but didn't receive
5. Ancestral grief
6. Grief for harm done
7. Trauma
8. Anticipatory grief
9. Other

[00:21:00] The Dragon Metaphor

• How to train your grief dragons
• Transforming fear and grief into connection and expansion

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Skye Cielita Flor & Miraz Indira, The Joyful Lament: On Pain for the World. 2023 Access here
• Learn more about Joanna Macy's work from the Commons Library.
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here

• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here

• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chiabu.2024.107125
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

More Grief & Savoring Episodes:

- Ep. 252: Fourth Gate: What We Expected But Did Not Receive

- Ep. 251: Third Gate: The Sorrows of the World

- Ep. 250: Second Gate: The Places That Have Not Known Love

- Ep. 249: First Gate: Everything We Love, We Will Lose

- Ep. 232: Facing Pain and Finding Freedom

- Ep. 15: How Can We Respond to Tragic Loss?

Questions this episode was made for:

A: Because grief and joy are woven together — you can't close the gate to one without closing the gate to the other; this episode makes the case for why facing grief is one of the most direct paths to a fuller, more joyful life.

A: Nothing, exactly — but the stages imply an ordered process that grief rarely follows; Francis Weller's gates model is more flexible, holistic, and honest about grief's complexity, and this episode explains why Joy Lab is using it.

Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program.

Please see our terms for more information.

If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at [email protected]. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.