Ken Stanley – AI researcher and author of "Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned" – joins me to explore why ambitious objectives can blind us to the stepping stones that make breakthroughs possible. Ken is the inventor of the novelty search algorithm and co-creator of Picbreeder, a crowdsourced evolutionary art experiment that has led to important insights about our objective-obsessed culture.

This conversation covers everything from why vacuum tubes had to come before computers, how the path you take to success matters more than the success itself, the "fractured entangled representation" hypothesis, why grant applications kill innovation, how education beats the playground mentality out of children, and why "interesting" is the opposite of random.

I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. For the full transcript, episode takeaways, and bucketloads of other goodies designed to make you go, "Hmm, that's interesting!", check out our Substack.

Important Links:

• Personal Website
• X / Twitter
• LinkedIn
• Google Scholar
• Wikipedia
• Book: Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned

Show Notes:

• Are We Deterministic Thinkers Living in a Probabilistic World?
• Evolving Complexity and the NEAT Algorithm
• The Origins of Picbreeder
• The Power of Novelty Search
• The Cultural Impact of Non-Objective Thinking
• Why Pursuing Interestingness is Not the Same as Being Random
• Mechanizing Serendipity via Stepping Stones
• The Allure of the Security Blanket
• The Omni-culture of NSF Funding
• What Makes an Innovator?
• The Fractured Entangled Representation Hypothesis
• What does it say about LLMs if They Are Fractured and Entangled?
• Path Dependency and Careers
• Ken as Emperor of the World

Books Mentioned:

• Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned; by Kenneth Stanley (and Joel Lehman)
• The God Problem; by Howard Bloom
• The Lucifer Principle; by Howard Bloom
• Global Brain; by Howard Bloom
• The Beginning of Infinity; by David Deutsch
• Invest Like the Best; by Jim O'Shaughnessy
• A Mind At Play; by Jimmy Soni