During the winter months many plants reveal subtle patterns, fine details, and a new range of colors that help us to see familiar beds and borders with fresh eyes. This is an excellent time to get outside, evaluate your garden's bones, and make some plans for spring planting. In this episode Danielle, Carol, and their guest will explore some of the plants that fly a bit under the radar in winter months, but certainly deserve more attention. Do you have any of these underappreciated wonders in your landscape? If not, you may want to start digging holes as soon as the ground thaws to ensure that some of these unsung heroes get some well-deserved garden real estate. Will any of these winter beauties make it onto your wish list this year?

Jay Sifford is the owner and principal designer at Jay Sifford Garden Design in Charolette, North Carolina.

Danielle's Plants

Spotted wintergreen (Chimaphila maculata, Zones 4-8)

'Peppermint Patty' bergenia (Bergenia 'Peppermint Patty', Zones 4-8)

Moosewood (Acer pensylvanicum, Zones 3-7)

'ReJoyce' drooping laurel (Leucothoe axillaris 'ReJoyce', Zones 6-9)

Carol's Plants

Golden Duke Eastern hemlock (Tsuga canadensis 'Monjers', Zones 4–8)

American hornbeam (Carpinus caroliniana, Zones 3b–9)

'Little Heath' pieris (Pieris japonica 'Little Heath', Zones 5–9)

'St. Mary's Broom' blue spruce (Picea pungens 'St. Mary's Broom', Zones 2-7)

Expert's Plants

American witch hazel (Hamamelis virginiana, Zones 3-8)

'Shades of Pink' laurustinus (Viburnum tinus 'Shades of Pink', Zones 7b-10)

Blue conifers with assorted ornamental grasses

'Louie' white pine (Pinus strobus 'Louie', Zones 4-9)

Stacie Crooks is a Seattle-based garden designer who has created beautiful, ecologically friendly, low-maintenance gardens throughout the Pacific Northwest. She is also a contributing editor for Fine Gardening magazine and has shared her insights with our readers through 10 feature articles and several departments over the past 17 years. In this episode, Carol interviews Stacie about the lessons that she has gained from her years of garden design experience.

Stacie Crooks's Garden Design Rules of Thumb

1. Identify your project. Ask yourself "What do I want to achieve?" and "Why do I want to do this?" Having a clear goal in mind- be it lower maintenance, better curb appeal, or more wildlife in the garden- will help you make the right design, style, and plant choices.

2. Know your site. Before you can make any changes, you need to know your limitations. Determine the garden's light exposure and angles, soil types, drainage, topography, and size. Consider irrigation (if you need water, where will it come from?) and access (how will you get into the garden and move through it?) Bearing all this in mind, set a budget.

3. Get inspired. With your goals and guidelines clear, It's time for a solid plan. People always ask, "Where do I start?" Engage in activities that foster learning and friendships. Read books and magazines and go to lectures. Join a garden club. Volunteer at a public garden. Look in the newspapers and on the internet for opportunities. Take notes, make lists and make sketches. Take photos of gardens you visit and copy them.

4. No zone denial. When you go to buy your plants at your local nursery, read the tags carefully. Choose only that which is suited for your site and to your lifestyle. If it is not clear, ask a nursery person. Be sure that the amount of care that plant needs match the time and energy you can afford.

5. Finish one garden before you start another. Resist buying plants that are not for your current project- they'll just die waiting for you to plant them. Stick to the list.

6. Be responsible environmentally. Always aim to use less water, less fertilizer, and no chemicals. The better you know your site, the easier it is to achieve success naturally. There's an importance to NOT gardening, using fewer resources and less labor and just enjoying your space more.

Plants with a silvery sheen stand out beautifully against the sea of green that fills most garden beds. In this episode, Danielle, Carol, and their guest will highlight some shimmering shrubs, drought-tolerant perennials, a tiny dwarf conifer, and even an unusual silvery vine with a bit of a back story. Perhaps one of these lovely, luminous plants could be the silver bullet solution to one of your own garden design dilemmas.

Chloë Bowers, a garden designer based in southwestern Connecticut, is the moderator for Fine Gardening's Northeast Gardening Answers forum. Join the conversation here: https://www.finegardening.com/discussion-forum/northeast-gardening

Danielle's Plants

'Quicksilver' hebe (Hebe pimelioides 'Quicksilver', Zones 7b-9)

Woolly thyme (Thymus pseudolanuginosus, Zones 5-9)

Silver sage (Salvia argentea, Zones 5-8)

'Angel Wings' sea cabbage (Senecio candicans 'Angel Wings', Zones 8–10)

Carol's Plants

'Pimoko' Serbian spruce (Picea omorika 'Pimoko', Zones 4-9)

Sea kale (Crambe maritima, Zones, Zones 5-9)

'Elijah Blue' fescue (Festuca glauca 'Elijah Blue', Zones 4-8)

'Kintzley's Ghost' honeysuckle vine (Lonicera 'Kintzley's Ghost', Zones 4-8)

Expert's Plants

Pussytoes (Antennaria plantaginifolia, Zones 3-8)

Blunt mountain mint (Pycnanthemum muticum, Zones 4-8)

Pearly everlasting (Anaphalis margaritacea, Zones 3-8)

Prairie sage (Artemisia ludoviciana, Zones 3-7)

Oh, dear listeners...it's the most glorious time of the year! No, not because it's time to hang the stockings or trim the tree—because it's time to make the 2024 gardening wish lists. This year Carol and Danielle have selected the 8 plants they are pining over most. You will hear about a brand-new perennial that few, if any, have seen before. And there's also a new hydrangea with...brace yourselves...BLACK foliage! The list also includes plants that our contributors have written extensively about, and we've just now sat up and paid attention. Listen now to hear about the plants we'll be dreaming about as the flakes fly this winter.

Expert guest: Jennifer Benner is content editor for Fine Gardening. She has a bachelor's degree in horticulture from The Ohio State University.

Danielle's Plants

'Blue Bunchkin' baptisia (Baptisia 'Blue Bunchkin', Zones 4-9)

'Nichirin' false nettle (Boehmeria nipononivea 'Nichirin', Zones 6-9)

Eclipse® bigleaf hydrangea (Hydrangea macrophylla 'Bailmacseven', Zones 5–9)

'Fusion of Fire' oredenia (Oredenia 'Fusion of Fire', Zones 5-8)

Carol's Plants

'Humilis' red buckeye (Aesculus pavia 'Humilis', Zones 4-8)

Blackberry lily (Iris domestica, Zones 5-10)

'Hillside Sheffield Pink' garden mum (Chrysanthemum 'Hillside Sheffield Pink', Zones 4-9)

Tropicanna canna Lily (Canna 'Phasion', Zones 7b to 10)

Expert's Plants

'The Blues' little bluestem (Schizachyrium scoparium 'The Blues', Zones 3-9)

Acapulco® Salmon and Pink agastache (Agastache 'Salmon and Pink', Zones 5-9)

'Orange'

'Jelena' witch hazel (Hamamelis x intermedia 'Jelena, Zones 5-8)

If you like the beauty and impact that ornamental grasses bring to a garden design, you will love the many shapes, forms and colors that North American native species offer. Whether you need a practical groundcover, a dramatic focal point, or an airy filler to knit a matrix planting together, Danielle, Carol, and guest Paula Gross have some options that will inspire you to start your spring shopping list now.

Expert guest:Paula Gross is a horticulture educator at Central Piedmont Community College and co-author of The Southeast Native Plant Primer with Larry Mellichamp and Will Stuart.

Danielle's Plants

Blue-eyed grass (Sisyrinchium angustifolium, Zones 4-9)

'Carousel' little bluestem (Schizachyrium scoparium 'Carousel', Zones 3-9)

'Northwind' switchgrass (Panicum virgatum 'Northwind', Zones 4-9)

'River Mist' Northern sea oats (Chasmanthium latifolium 'River Mist', Zones 5-8)

Carol's Plants

Pennsylvania sedge (Carex pensylvanica, Zones 4–8)

Rose muhly (Muhlenbergia reverchonii, Zones 5–9)

Purpletop (Tridens flavus, Zones 4–9)

'Blonde Ambition' gramma grass (Bouteloua gracilis 'Blonde Ambition', Zones 3–10)

Expert's Plants

Pink muhly (Muhlenbergia capillaris, Zones 5-9)

Little bluestem (Schizachyrium scoparium, Zones 3-9)

Splitbeard bluestem (Andropogon ternarius, Zones 6-10)

Switchgrass (Panicum virgatum, Zones 4-9)

Indian grass (Sorghastrum nutans, Zones 4-9)

While searching through our archive of episodes we discovered something: There are a few specific plants we just can't stop talking about. As the years have progressed here at Let's Argue About Plants, we find ourselves experimenting with more and more varieties, so we have something new to report back to you on. But frankly, there are a core of plants that we could talk about every episode because they are just that good. We try to mix it up, but these stars have made it into more than a couple recordings—and rightly so. With that, we decided not to fight nature and give these stars their spotlight. In today's compilation episode you'll hear about Carol and Danielle's top four plants...again...but for good reason. They are selections that no garden should be without, in our humble opinions.

Danielle's Plants

Perry's Gold' Norway spruce (Picea abies 'Perry's Gold', Zones 3–9)

'Crested Surf' painted fern (Athyrium niponicum 'Crested Surf', Zones 3-8)

'Snow Fairy' blue mist shrub (Caryopteris divaricata 'Snow Fairy', Zones 6-9)

Mountain laurel (Kalmia latifolia, Zones 4-9)

Carol's Plants

Maidenhair fern (Adiantum pedatum, Zones 3-8)

New Jersey tea (Ceanothus americanus, Zones 4–8)

Butterfly weed (Asclepias tuberosa, Zones 3-9)

Pink Icing® blueberry (Vaccinium corymbosum 'ZF06-079', Zones 5–10)

Isn't every plant great in a group? Well, the answer is no. Some plants are too vigorous in their growth habits to share the stage, while others are better if put on a pedestal all their own (i.e. the focal point plants of the landscape). Today's episode we talk about plants that are great in masses—that is to say—in groups of three or more. We have options for shade, choices for sun, and selections for those in-between exposures situations. We'll also feature some great plants that we've seen grouped to perfection in gardens featured in Fine Gardening. And you don't have to be a millionaire to group plants. Many of our suggestions are easily divided after just a year or two, providing you with multiple plants for the price of just one.

Expert guest: Daniel Robarts is a horticulturist at Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens in Boothbay, Maine.

Danielle's Plants

'Kitten Around' catmint (Nepeta faassenii 'Kitten Around', Zones 3-8)

'All Gold' Japanese forest grass (Hakonechloa macra 'All Gold', Zones 5-9)

'Kobold' liatris (Liatris spicata 'Kobold', Zones 3-8)

Smooth hydrangea (Hydrangea arborescens and cvs., Zones 3-9)

Carol's Plants

'Galaxy Blue' agapanthus (Agapanthus 'Galaxy Blue', Zones 6-10)

Feather Falls™ sedge (Carex 'ET CRX01', Zones 5-9)

Firefinch™ coneflower (Echinacea purpurea 'G0052Y', Zones 4-8)

Flowering tobacco (Nicotiana sylvestris, Zones 10-11)

Expert's Plants

'Millenium' allium (Allium 'Millenium', Zones 5-8)

'Brunette' bugbane (Actaea simplex 'Brunette', Zones 3-8)

'Starry Starry Night' hibiscus (Hibiscus 'Starry Starry Night', Zones 4-9)

Danielle combo #1

'Limelight' panicle hydrangea (Hydrangea paniculata 'Limelight', Zones 3-9)

'Sun King' aralia (Aralia cordata 'Sun King', Zones 3-9)

Danielle combo #2

'Worcester Gold' blue mist shrub (Caryopteris × clandonensis 'Worcester Gold', Zones 5-9)

'Goldsturm' black-eyed Susan (Rudbeckia fulgida var. sullivantii 'Goldsturm', Zones 3-9)

Carol combo # 1

White Drift® rose (Rosa 'Meizorland', Zones 4-11)

Tall garden phlox (Phlox paniculata cvs., Zones 4-8)

Carol combo # 2

'Sun King' aralia (Aralia cordata 'Sun King', Zones 3-9)

'Blackhawks' big bluestem (Andropogon gerardii 'Blackhawks', Zones 3–9)

'Dark Knight' blue mist shrub (Caryopteris x clandonensis 'Dark Knight', Zones 5-9)

Expert combo #1

'Zwartkop' aeonium (Aeonium 'Zwartkop', Zones 9-11)

Ghost plant (Graptopetalum paraguayense, Zones 7-11)

Expert combo #2

Tropicanna® canna (Canna indica 'Phasion', Zones 7-11)

'Color Guard' yucca (Yucca filamentosa 'Color Guard', Zones 4-10)

Clarity Blue™ dianella (Dianella 'DP401', Zones 8-10)

Blue rose hens and chicks (Echeveria imbricata, Zones 9-11)

We're nearing our 150th episode mark and for us, that has meant a lot of plants discussed. But it's also meant a lot of great guest appearances. As you know, each episode we ask an expert from the field of horticulture to lend us their brains and weigh-in on some great plant choices for the topic at hand. We've had guests who made us laugh, think twice about a much-maligned perennial, or even come to realize that there are far better options out there for our gardens. Who was our funniest guest? The one that made us seriously reconsider our planting choices? Or the one who made us grip the steering wheel with white knuckles (yes—that did actually happen)? Tune in now to find out and listen to our favorite guest segments.

Featured guests:

· Riz Reyes, a horticulturist and floral designer based in Seattle.

· Richard Hawke is the director of ornamental plant research at the Chicago Botanic Garden in Glencoe, Illinois.

· Irvin Etienne is curator of herbaceous plants and seasonal garden design for The Garden at Newfields in Indianapolis.

· Sabrena Schweyer and her husband, Samuel Salsbury, own and manage Salsbury-Schweyer Inc., a sustainable landscape design and development group based in Akron, Ohio. Read her latest article here: https://www.finegardening.com/article/replace-a-front-lawn-with-a-beautiful-eco-friendly-garden

Irvin Etienne's Upgraded Classics

Classic: 'Flamenco' red-hot poker (Kniphofia uvaria 'Flamenco', Zones 5–9) Photo: David J. Stang, via Wikimedia Commons

Upgrade: 'Mango Popsicle' red-hot poker (Kniphofia 'Mango Popsicle', Zones 6–9) Photo: Irvin Etienne

Classic: 'Fireball' hardy hibiscus (Hibiscus 'Fireball', Zones 5–9) Photo: courtesy of David J. Stang, via Wikimedia Commons

Upgrade: 'Holy Grail' hardy hibiscus (Hibiscus 'Holy Grail', Zones 4–9)

Classic: 'Storm Cloud' lily of the Nile (Agapanthus 'Storm Cloud', Zones 7b–10) Photo: ©Armitage/Hip Labels, LLC

Upgrade: 'Galaxy Blue' lily of the Nile (Agapanthus 'Galaxy Blue', Zones 6–10) Photo: Irvin Etienne

Classic: 'Black Knight' butterfly bush (Buddleia davidii 'Black Knight', Zones 5–9)

Upgrade: 'Grand Cascade' butterfly bush (Buddleia 'Grand Cascade', Zones 5–10) Photo: Irvin Etienne

Classic: Mimosa (Albizia julibrissin, Zones 6–9) Photo: Simon Garbutt, via Wikimedia Commons

Upgrade: 'Summer Chocolate' mimosa (Albizia julibrissin 'Summer Chocolate', Zones 6–9)

Richard Hawke's Favorite Vines (original episode #37)

'Guernsey Cream' clematis (Clematis 'Guernsey Cream', Zones 4-9)

Rüütel™ clematis (Clematis 'Kiviruut', Zones 4-9)

'Madame Julia Correvon' clematis (Clematis 'Madame Julia Correvon', Zones 4-9)

'Princess Diana' clematis (Clematis 'Princess Diana', Zones 4-8)

'Prince Charles' clematis (Clematis 'Prince Charles', Zones 4-8)

Variegated kiwi vine (Actinidia kolomikta, Zones 4-8)

Climbing hydrangea (Hydrangea anomala petiolaris, Zones 4-8)

Japanese hydrangea vine (Schizophragma hydrangeoides, Zones 6-9)

Chinese Virginia creeper (Parthenocissus henryana, Zones 7-9) credit: Doreen Wynja

American wisteria (Wisteria frutescens, Zones 5-8)

Sabrena Schweyer's Problem-Solving Perennials

Pennsylvania sedge (Carex pensylvanica, Zones 3–8)

'Eastern Star' white wood aster (Eurybia divaricata 'Eastern Star', Zones 3–8)

Obedient plant (Physostegia virginiana, Zones 3–9)

Short-toothed mountain mint (Pycnanthemum muticum, Zones 4–8)

Riz Reyes' Favorite Container Plants (original episode # 86)

'Kiwi Fern' coleus (Plectranthus scutellarioides 'Kiwi Fern', Zones 10-11)

Aeonium (Aeonium spp. and cvs., Zones 9-11)

Shearer's felt fern (Pyrrosia sheareri, Zones 7-10)

'Dancing Queen' hosta (Hosta 'Dancing Queen', Zones 3-8)

It's time to grab that sweatshirt and dig out those heavier socks—fall has arrived! Although it's sad to see summer go, we're getting super excited for the new season around here. The native plants in New England (where our podcast is based) are starting to look especially lovely so we've dedicated this show to them. We've got an array of native woodies that bloom or color up in autumn (Danielle) and a few perennials that save their best for September (Carol). Don't worry—we're not just featuring plants native to the eastern seaboard either, we've got some Midwest wonders and even some Southern charmers in the mix as well. Looking for some native plants that please the local ecology and look beautiful doing it? We've got you covered on this latest episode.

Expert guest: Brent Horvath is the owner of and head plant breeder/developer at Intrinsic Perennial Gardens, a wholesale nursery in Hebron, Illinois.

Danielle's Plants

Northern spicebush (Lindera benzoin, Zones 4-9)

Lowbush blueberry (Vaccinium angustifolium, Zones 2-8)

Sassafras (Sassafras albidum, Zones 4-9)

Summersweet (Clethra alnifolia, Zones 3-9)

Carol's Plants

Joe Pye weed (Eutrochium purpureum, Zones 4-9)

Pearly everlasting (Anaphalis margaritacea, Zones 3-8)

Oakleaf hydrangea (Hydrangea quercifolia, Zones 5-9)

'Iron Butterfly' ironweed (Vernonia lettermannii 'Iron Butterfly', Zones 4-9)

Expert's Plants

Eastern bluestar (Amsonia tabernaemontana and cvs., Zones 3-9)

Threadleaf bluestar (Amsonia hubrichtii and cvs., Zones 5-8)

Ozark bluestar (Amsonia illustris and cvs., Zones 5-9)

Little bluestem (Schizachyrium scoparium and cvs., Zones 3-10)