“Opponents replied that when you modeled a hurricane, nobody got wet. When you modeled a fusion power plant, no energy was produced. When you modeled digestion and metabolism, no nutrients were consumed – no real digestion took place. So, when you modeled the human brain, why should you expect real thought to occur?”

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're talking all things consciousness and simulated reality with Permutation City by Greg Egan. Classified as a hard science fiction novel, the book tells the story of a man who seeks to create immortality by creating "software" copies of the mind.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The complex nature of consciousness
• Egan's "Dust Theory"
• What it's like to live in a simulation
• Ethics surrounding death and dying
• The possibilities that come with computer intelligence

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• The Dust Theory (3:51)
• Biocentrism (7:37)
• Black Mirror - San Junipero (30:48)
• Turing test (35:52)
• Her (39:08)
• Building a Second Brain (1:07:05)
• The Expanse (1:08:08)
• ChatGPT Epilogue to Permutation City

Books Mentioned:

• Godel Escher Bach (0:42) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• The Three-Body Problem (0:58) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• The Beginning of Infinity (16:42) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• The Egg (19:27)
• The Fable of the Dragon Tyrant (24:26)
• The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (26:58)
• Where Is my Flying Car? (27:13) 
• The Comfort Crisis (30:20) 
• Homo Deus (44:41) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Altered Carbon (53:41)
• The Lessons of History (1:02:26)

People Mentioned:

• Greg Egan (3:54)
• Arthur Clarke (16:39)
• Issac Asimov (16:40)
• Andy Weir (19:28)
• Liu Cixin (1:04:31)

Show Topics:

(0:00) If you're a science fiction lover, this week's episode is for you! We’re discussing Permutation City, a 'hard science fiction' book from 1994. This book explores many concepts including The Dust Theory and achieving immortality through copying your consciousness.

(4:24) Intro to Dust Theory. There are infinitely many universes existing at all space and time. As soon as a universe is perceived by a conscious intelligence, that universe comes to exist, and that universe will always continue to exist as long as there is consciousness to observe it.

(8:11) Are we in a simulation? We learn in response to stimuli which is also how LLMs (large language models) learn too.

(13:12) Nat, Neil, and Adil define consciousness, discuss the idea of transporting consciousness, and how we differ from LLMs. We have a private and inner mind that generates its own thoughts and feelings. We can't be certain whether computers have this or not.

(22:01) There's an 'engine' in our heads that is focused on our survival and continuation.

(23:21) Ethics surrounding death. One can argue that life is short, but when you've lived for thousands of years through copying your consciousness, it becomes a question of when it's enough.

(28:39) If we could somehow prevent bodily decay and the death of our loved ones, would we ever be ready to die, and is aging something that we can slow down or affect? 

(33:43) In the book, from the perspective of the humans, the copies are just programs who look intelligent, but they aren’t real. From the perspective of the copies, it’s all very real.

(41:31) Time dilation and running consciousness slower for the copies. The slowdown doesn’t necessarily affect the copy. The time perception is still the same to them, but it may affect how they interact with the real world.

(46:08) There's a baseline risk for being alive. You can try to get all of your life risks to zero, but it is best to accept that there will always be some general risk.

(51:49) Collaboration in publishing. While most books have a single author, it may add some dimension to get expertise from guest authors with knowledge in different fields.

(54:50) What did Greg Egan regret most about Permutation City? 

(1:02:11) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode on History of the Peloponnesian War. Also on the horizon is The Three-Body Problem. Make sure to pick up a copy if you'd like to read up before the episode. As mentioned, check out this awesome epilogue created by ChatGPT!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“In today’s world, even a non-Stagnated version, the flying car is not a replacement for the car; it is a replacement for the airplane. A reasonably well-designed convertible could fit right in to today’s airspace system; it would fit right into our road system as well. Without the Stagnation there might well be a 50,000 airplane per year market, and enough licensed pilots to buy them. Remember, average family income would be well into six figures. In 1950, about one quarter of one percent of Americans were licensed pilots; that percentage today amounts to over three quarters of a million, which is market aplenty, for a start.”

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we discuss Where Is My Flying Car? by J. Storrs Hall who calls out the stagnation of productivity since the 1970s and gives us a glimpse of what our future could be if we strive for it.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Why growth has slowed since the 1970s
• What's possible with nuclear energy and nanotech?
• The zero sum way of thinking
• How our tolerance for risk has changed over time
• The progression of aviation from the early 1900s to now

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show: 

• Kardashev scale (35:02)
• Israel’s Iron Dome (44:40)
• AVE Mizar - Flying car prototype (47:46)
• Joby Aviation (54:04)
• Osprey military helicopter (55:07)
• Tesla plunges off a cliff (1:01:17)
• Interstellar (1:19:59)
• Space elevator (1:25:37)
• Popular Mechanics (1:26:51)

Books Mentioned:

• The Three-Body Problem (9:55) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Dune (10:33)
• Foundation (10:34)
• Zero to One (13:57) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Comfort Crisis (14:18) (Book Episode)
• Energy and Civilization (33:59) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr. (37:22)
• Project Hail Mary (56:52)
• The Martian (56:55) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Time Machine (1:07:14)
• The Fourth Turning (1:14:19) (Book Episode)
• The Art of Doing Science and Engineering (1:32:19)
• The Making of the Prince of Persia (1:32:40)
• The Dream Machine (1:33:51)
• Scientific Freedom (1:34:02)

People Mentioned:

• Dan Carlin (0:56)
• Vaclav Smil (33:57)
• Ron Chernow (37:23)
• Andy Weir (56:53)
• David Foster Wallace (1:06:25)
• Paul Graham (1:29:58)

Show Topics:

(0:36) Podcast analytics: What are the listening behaviors and demographics of our listeners?

(4:35) The explanation behind the spy balloons and other UFOs. 

(9:52) Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about some book recommendations they’ve received and books they’d recommend to others.

(11:56) One takeaway from the book is that we don’t tend to work on things that feel impossible. Much of what we've accomplished is what feels safe and what we know we’ll see success in.

(17:42) The book we're discussing today is Where Is My Flying Car? The book talks about the stagnation of the physical world because we didn’t invest as much as we could have in nuclear energy, nanotech, and aviation. 

(22:14) Some of the different technologies that have been idealized feel fictional and out of reach. However, we're much further than we know in understanding the technical part of it and these ideas may not be all that unattainable. 

(26:44) Early on, the book emphasizes the flying car, then goes to explain that you can’t get the flying car without better energy policies and nanotech. 

(30:05) The cost efficiency of nuclear fuel. 

(32:03) The Henry Adams curve. How do we make the shift from creating more energy to using the energy more efficiently? The amount of energy your civilization harnesses is indicative of your wealth and quality of living.

(35:39) The ‘zero sum’ way of thinking and how it impacts moral behavior. If you don’t have economic growth, you can’t sustain democracy in the long run.

(38:09) What would good regulation look like? How the atomic bomb changed the progress and power of countries.

(44:45) Climate change and the argument of CO2 as an enemy. If CO2 did increase, it would be beneficial to plants but harmful to humans. 

(46:55) Aviation from the 30’s and 40’s and the stagnation over the past few decades in air travel. While we made progress after the first aircraft was made and through WW1 and WW2, the progress since is seemingly slow. 

(52:23) The distinction between leading edge vs. depth and the importance of computing progress in space travel. 

(58:29) Before the era of computing, many things were controlled by pumps and levers. Our risk tolerance is much different than it once was. 

(1:04:40) We have different ideas of what risk is now. We still have the instinct to make progress in society, but it has been redirected towards other things.

(1:11:16) The 5 levels of transportation and how your wealth determines your level. There are millions of people who can't afford shoes, yet people in higher socioeconomic classes can afford cars. Both are vehicles for transportation.

(1:16:42) What will good tech look like in 50 years? We’ve progressed in telecommunication with audio, video, tv, podcasts, instant messaging, etc. A lot of science fiction is pessimistic about humanity. 

(1:22:48) Nanotech and the capabilities you can achieve with it. 

(1:30:58) Have you ever read a book and wished it was longer or shorter?

(1:42:02) That concludes this episode! Next up, we're reading Peloponnesian War and will get to The Three-Body Problem trilogy down the road. Make sure to pick up a copy if you want to follow along with us!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.”

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we're covering The Art of War by Sun Tzu. Though it's nearly 2,500 years old, the military tactics and war strategies presented in the book are still being taught in militaries and business schools around the world making this a timeless strategy guide.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• How perfecting the basics can earn you the win
• Strategies for being the superior or inferior force
• The five essentials for victory
• Using deception on your enemy
• When you should use an indirect approach or avoid conflict

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Donald Trump's NFT commercial (3:38)
• Then and now: Uneven bars (27:45)
• Jocko Podcast 23: The Art of War (29:07)
• ChatGPT (1:02:33)
• Did the Greeks see blue? (1:03:03) 

Books Mentioned:

• Tao Te Ching (7:49) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Atomic Habits (9:30) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Prince (20:37)
• Unrestricted Warfare (1:09:27)
• Where Is My Flying Car? (1:10:35)

People Mentioned:

• Sun Tzu 
• Colleen Hoover (9:33)
• Sun Bin (10:24)
• Lorenzo de' Medici (21:07)

Show Topics:

(4:02) Today, we are diving back in to our Great Book Series with The Art of War, a book on military strategy and warfare, but the lessons can be applied to fields outside of war, too.

(7:36) The book is approximately 2,500 years old. Though Sun Tzu is credited as the author, it's unclear how much of it was his direct writing vs. a compilation of his strategies that are attributed to him.

(13:43) One main takeaway from the book is that it really all comes down to the basics and the intuition you get from your experience. 

(17:48) The commentary in the book suggests that the book wasn’t written for a military audience, but rather for the King at the time. It may not dive into the actual act of fighting, training, and equipping a military, but it does cover leadership, deception, and strategization.

(22:12) "To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."

The enemy can present you the opportunity to win by making a mistake. This can apply in areas outside of war, such as sports.

(28:09) Much of the book talks about avoiding war and taking an indirect approach. You can’t change someone’s mind with a direct approach, but you can apply other tactics and more indirect measures to convince someone or change their minds. 

(32:47) Nat, Neil, and Adil go over the 5 essentials for victory as well as the importance of the commander’s intent.

(35:02) Superior vs. inferior forces and knowing how to handle them. You can turn a superior force into an inferior force by splitting them up and spreading them thin.

(38:51) When attacking a weaker force, never corner them. Leaving the enemy an escape lets the less motivated soldiers to leave through the escape route rather than fighting it out.

(40:41) The 9 grounds - The book lays out strategies for each of the types of ground. They are helpful for the generals to have a list of possible next steps depending on the situation at hand.

(44:57) The basics may appear so simple and common sense, but it’s all about which side can do the basics correctly. By remembering the basics, we aren't forced to try to do too much which is when we end up making an error allowing the other side to capitalize on it.

(51:54) Once you have expertise in something, you often notice things that others with just basic knowledge wouldn’t. We talk about why it can also be harder to teach a beginner when you're an expert.

(57:28) Rapid fire: Nat, Neil, and Adil cover a few of their remaining notes from the book including the 5 dangerous faults that may affect a general. 

(1:09:23) The basics of war can be combined and recombined. It's similar to playing cards where two people may play the same hand completely differently and apply different strategies.

(1:10:28) That concludes this episode! Up next, we will be reading Where Is My Flying Car? by J. Storrs Hall. Make sure to pick up a copy if you want to read along with us!

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Neuroscience research shows that the only way we can change the way we feel is by becoming aware of our inner experience and learning to befriend what is going inside ourselves.”

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, we discuss The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk, and the effects that traumatic stress can have on our mind and body. 

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Why the mind and body should not be viewed as unrelated entities
• The role of both parents in raising a well-adjusted child
• Breathwork, meditation, and starting early
• How movement and exercise can rewire your brain
• The rise of therapy and importance of social support

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• Agamemnon (1:11)
• Shiva (27:55)
• 40th Day after death (28:09)
• Bonobos (43:30)
• EMDR (1:00:14)
• Wim Hof Breathing (1:03:08)

Books Mentioned

• The Body Keeps the Score
• Merchants of Doubt (3:09) (Nat's Book Notes) (Book Episode)
• Gödel, Escher, Bach (6:17) (Nat's Book Notes) (Book Episode)
• Burn Rate (43:22)
• Breath (1:01:58) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Deep (1:02:07)
• The Art of War (1:08:32)

People Mentioned

• Andy Dunn (43:20)
• Eric Jorgensen (54:23) (Book Episode)
• James Nestor (1:02:01)

Show Topics:

(0:00) The Body Keeps The Score seeks to change the discourse around trauma and its symptoms, and it pokes some holes in the way that people have historically thought about mental health.

(3:28) The way we think about our bodily health was traditionally very individualistic, when in reality, it’s very complex. The brain and body connection: They’re not two totally different things, rather they’re deeply connected. 

(8:09) In addition to the mental and emotional affects of anxiety, there are physical effects too: stomach aches, shortness of breath, muscle tension, and more. We also talk about the importance of gut health.

(12:10) Fermentation of beer and sourdough, and the differences when it's fermented commercially vs. at-home.

(17:07) A lot of what we consume may have been fermented at least partially in the past, but that's not the case with most foods anymore. Our bodies have evolved to it, and it likely has an impact on our gut health.

(19:58) PTSD with veterans and why they could be in one world mentally but another world physically. 

(25:49) Handling difficult experiences with social support vs. isolation. If you grew up without a positive parental figure, you may try to find that support somewhere else, even if that support is negative such as joining a gang.

(27:11) The rise of therapy. Traditionally, people would use their social or religious communities as the support to confide in and get them through difficult times. Today, there's more individualized support from someone that you previously did not know.

(31:30) You don’t process trauma the same way you process language, so talking about these traumatic events can become difficult. There’s a difference between going to therapy and actually doing the work at therapy.

(36:00) The book highlights many stories of people where events experienced early on in life are still unresolved for many years into their adulthood. It can take decades to identify where some of our behaviors and thoughts stem from. 

(39:54) Imprinting your child. Not everyone is aware of bad habits they show in their parenting style that came from their own parents. It's all about reflecting on how you want to do things differently than your parents as a parent yourself.

(45:49) The author argues that it’s hard to have an emotionally well adjusted child without both a male and female role model that embodies some of the stereotypical traits for the child.

(56:13) Movement and exercise can rewire your brain and change how you feel about something. It also takes us back to the mind-body connection where you're more likely to feel emotionally better if you physically feel well, too.

(58:32) Nat and Neil share their advice on reading the book and how the stories within the book can be helpful, but at the same time, difficult to read.

(1:01:51) The benefits of breathwork and meditation, and how you can teach those skills very early on in life.

(1:07:59) That wraps up this episode! Join us next time as we cover The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode we discuss The Analects of Confucius and virtuous living.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Confucian virtues
• The differences between Confucianism and Taoism
• The value of friendships between the young and their elders
• How to govern through example in a Confucian way
• Transmitting the values of ancients to contemporary times
• Ancient Chinese religions

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Mentioned in the show:

• Desnudo Coffee in Austin
• Johnathan Bi and David Perell's Girard Lecture series link
• Hardcore History: Wrath of the Khans
• Hardcore History: The Death Throes of the Republic
• Ancient Chinese religions
• Dolphin birthing center TikTok

Books mentioned:

• The Clouds by Aristophanes
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr

People mentioned:

• Rumi (24:35)
• Richard Rohr (48:26)
• Johnathan Bi and David Perell (54:00)
• Graham Hancock (1:14:51)

Show Topics:

(0:00) Feedback about the Made You Think title – time for a possible rebrand?

(1:44) Tangent Fuel Coffee and Desnudo Coffee in Austin

(8:18) TikTok SEO's early days and Nat's experience on BookTok

(12:40) About Confucius

(15:45) Socrates, Confucius, and Buddha lived in the same 100 years

(18:12) Confucianism vs. Taoism

(20:28) The meaning of Books 10 and 18 in Analects

(23:20) Confucianism vs. Stoicism

(24:35) Confucius or Rumi? Adil reads quotes from each and Nat and Neil guess the author

(31:34) The Golden Rule appearing in Analects - twice!

(33:54): How to retain an author's original meaning while translating their work, especially when translating poetry or religious texts

(36:35) How The Clouds by Aristophanes contirbuted to Socrates’ death

(38:00) The meaning of filial piety and how Confucius prescribes mourning for one’s parents

(42:03) How our society is stratified by age and the difficulties in making friends with people much older

(48:26) Falling Upward by Richard Rohr

(52:20) The narcissism of small differences and Girard

(54:55) Governing through virtue and example

(59:15) Genghis Khan breaking up groups with homogenous sets of beliefs – TK LINK Genghis Khan series

(1:00:03) Parallels between the decline of the Roman Republic and the US – TK LINK Rome series

(1:05:10) Unexpected appearance of the word “God” in the text, ancient Chinese folk religions, matrilineal cultures

(1:10:48) Confucius's views on friendship and how to choose your friends

(1:11:47) Confucius transmitting values from earlier periods which were abandoned by his contemporaries

(1:14:51) Graham Hancock interviews and conspiracies

(1:20:15) “The pine and the cypress are the last to lose their leaves”

(1:24:00) Final notes and wrap-up

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode we discuss The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter, and how our modern lifestyle and pursuit of ease might be making us miserable, stressed, and anxious. 

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The connection between boredom and creativity
• Misogis and how to discover what you're truly capable of
• Why you don't necessarily want "less phone"
• How rucking could be a massive exercise hack
• The proper "dose" of outdoor, tech-free time

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the Show:

• GORUCK (0:40) 
• Raising Your Ceiling (8:28)
• Peter Attia’s Podcast episode with Michael Easter (9:01)
• Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (11:22)
• Eight Mattress (48:36)
• Tim Ferriss Podcast episode with Josh Waitzkin (54:14)

Books Mentioned:

• The Comfort Crisis
• Emergency (12:52) (Book Episode)
• Antifragile (13:47) (Book Episode)
• The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying (1:11:49)
• Moonwalking with Einstein (1:15:01) (Book Episode)
• Analects of Confucius (1:33:32)

People Mentioned:

• Michael Easter
• Nassim Taleb (14:13)
• Josh Waitzkin (54:08)
• Sogyal Rinpoche (1:11:48)

Show Topics:

(0:00) Rucking as a way to make you fit overall and where on your body you should be carrying the weight when you walk.

(4:32) How your eyes and body adjust to virtual reality. In general, your eyes dilate differently when you’re using a screen vs. not using a screen. 

(8:25) In today’s episode, we’re diving into The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter. The book is centered around the author’s caribou hunt in Alaska to challenge the idea of what comfort means to him.

(12:51) Good writing is more about helping explain a concept you’re beginning to think about in a way that you haven’t been able to conceptualize on your own yet rather than teaching you something brand new.

(15:19) Boredom is another theme talked about in the book. We tend to favor a highly comfortable life full of entertainment, and we get uncomfortable when we’re bored. However, making your life more comfortable isn’t necessarily going to improve it in the long term.

(17:59) We live in a world where there is always something you can do so you never have to sit in boredom when you’re waiting. Because of this constant need to entertain ourselves, we’re losing time that we could be spending processing and crafting new ideas. The more that we can train ourselves to be comfortable in boredom, the more we regain our ability to not be so hyper-anxious and reactive all the time. 

(20:56) The connection between boredom and creativity is similar to the idea of rest recovery for working out. You wouldn’t work out the same muscle every day without a rest day. We’re essentially contracting the attention muscle all day long when we’re on our phones all the time and not giving it the recovery time it desperately needs.

(23:00) So what’s the solution? Let yourself get bored. Rather than thinking “less phone” think “more boredom”. Making space for your thoughts and resetting the baseline.

(30:58) What’s a sustainable way to get your brain rested regularly and how much outdoors time is recommended each month?

(33:13) Misogis are challenges that allow you to reframe your perception of what you’re capable of achieving. Each year, it’s encouraged that you take on a challenge, one that’s really hard and one that is unique where you can’t compare yourself to others. 

(39:42) From Spartan Races, to pushup challenges, to training in the heat of a Texas summer, Nat, Neil, and Adil reflect on some of the harder things that they’ve experienced. As a species, we’re very capable of doing hard things that we often don’t push ourselves hard enough for.

(49:00) The author’s struggle with alcoholism. Everyone self-medicates differently, whether it’s alcohol, conflict, or something more positive. It’s a matter of what you choose to fill the space with.

(54:01) The language we use to approach things is critical. You can always find a way to enjoy a situation that most people would label as “bad”.

(1:02:08) How do you reset from a bad mood or from feeling anxiety? Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about the ways they stay active. 

(1:04:54) How much exercise should you do and what’s the right amount? The more you can do, the better (of course, without injury and overtraining yourself).

(1:09:24) Training yourself for long runs and building up your endurance.

(1:11:34) “Western laziness is quite different. It consists of cramming our lives with compulsive activity, so there is no time at all to confront the real issues. This form of laziness lies in our failure to choose worthwhile applications for our energy.” 

Filling up our time with things that may or may not be meaningful, but we often don’t realize that we’re doing it.

(1:14:36) When you look back over a long period of time, the days where you’re outside of your normal routine is what tends to stick out to you.  

(1:19:47) Finding the right amount of novelty to live a happy life. Is it possible to go too far into routine or too far into novelty?

(1:23:36) Nat, Neil, and Adil share some of their key takeaways and lessons learned from the book. This includes finding more ways to be uncomfortable, embracing that discomfort, and prioritizing physical activity.

(1:31:24) That concludes this episode! We hope you enjoyed it. Stay tuned for our first episode of 2023 as we cover the Analects of Confucious.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

In today’s episode, Nat Neil and Adil discuss the Tao Te Ching by Laozi. We each picked a few of our favorite chapters from the book to read and discuss, resulting in a wide-ranging discussion of work, happiness, ambition, finance, philosophy, and all our usual favorite subjects. 

Some of the topics we covered were:

• The importance of not over-extending yourself, being moderate and patient
• What does it mean to prioritize “inaction”? 
• The balance between short and long-term productivity
• Which parts of the Tao do we each struggle with the most
• What it means to seek a “middle path.” 
• Plus lots of tangents around fitness, entrepreneurship, work, other books, and more.

Be sure to stick around for the end, where Nat and Neil discuss our new plans for the show and where it’s going in 2023. 

Remember to subscribe if you haven’t, and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify if you liked the episode!

(1:10) - How different drugs created different financial crashes & philosophies

(3:22) - Background on the Tao Te Ching

(11:15) - Variations in the translations of the Tao Te Ching

(17:00) - What is the “real” version of old texts?

(21:20) - The theme of finding the middle ground, and inaction. Chapter 64. “If you rush into action, you will fail. If you hold on too tight, you will loose your grip. Therefore the Master lets things take their course and thus never fails.”

(27:00) - The importance of doing nothing. Chapter 48. “He who conquers the world often does so by doing nothing. When one is compelled to do something, The world is already beyond his conquering.”

(33:50) - The difference between short-term and long-term productivity. Sometimes doing nothing in the short term is the best strategy for the long term. 

(42:00) - Chapters 68, 24. The importance of being balanced, avoiding going to extremes. Avoiding the consequences of intense competition. “He who stands on tiptoe does not stand firm.”

(51:00) - What’s something you’re doing that’s incongruous with the advice in the Tao? Neils: Shiny object syndrome.

(54:00) - Nat’s: Impatience with professional success.

(1:05:00) - Adil’s: Shiny object syndrome.

(1:07:00) - The problem with the practical vs. the ideal, giving and receiving advice. 

(1:15:00) - Unintuitive advice in fitness.

(1:21:00) - Aiming at a specific goal vs. aiming in abstract.

(1:24:00) - The power of having a good adversary for bringing out your best.

(1:28:00) - Wrapup: Upcoming books, plans for the podcast

• Byrne Hobart (on Lunar Society) (1:10)
• Analects of Confucius (two episodes from now) (4:51)
• Tao in You Website (11:15)
• ChatGPT (14:00)
• Nicomachean Ethics by Aristotle (25:00) 
• The Alchemy of Finance by George Soros (29:05)
• Tyler Cowen (31:50)
• Cal Newport on Sam Harris (33:40)
• John McPhee (34:00)
• Children of Time, Adrian Tzchaicovsky (Nat got the age wrong, he was 46) (56:00)
• Godel Escher Bach, Douglas Hofstadter. Episode link (1:04:00)
• Antifragile, Nassim Taleb. Episode link (1:12:00)
• The Gibraltar skull (1:14:00)
• The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Episode link. (1:15:00)
• Finite and Infinite Games. Episode link. (1:22:00)
• The Inner Game of Tennis. Episode link. (1:23:00)
• Robert Nozick (1:24:00)
• John Rawls (1:24:00)
• Huberman Lab Podcast (1:25:00)
• The Comfort Crisis (next episode!) (1:29:00)

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil, Nat, and Adil give you a full 70 minutes doing what they do best: Going on tangents. Originally set to continue with the next book on their Great Books Project, the energy and caffeine took over as they dive into a variety of interesting discussions, stories, and ideas. This is an episode you don't want to miss!

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• Our favorite virtual reality video games and table games
• How new leadership at Twitter has impacted the app recently
• The strengths and limits of GPT-3
• Preventing burnout in longer-term or creative projects
• Being under-employed (on purpose)

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the show:

• FTX (0:26)
• SuperHot (2:07)
• Satisfactory (4:54)
• Terraforming Mars (9:18)
• Catan (9:34)
• Klask (10:27)
• 7 Wonders (11:38)
• Monopoly Deal (12:11)
• Epic Gardening (17:12)
• FAMA (30:05)
• Tweet Deleter (33:21)
• Twitter employees quit in droves (37:33)
• Github (50:39)
• LEX AI (59:38)
• GPT-3 (1:00:33)
• All-In Podcast (1:09:15)

Books Mentioned:

• Tao Te Ching (0:03) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Enders Game (7:12)
• The Pathless Path (21:51)

People Mentioned:

• Elon Musk (9:22)
• Kevin Espiritu (17:18) 
• Paul Millerd (21:50)
• Marc Andreessen (31:53)

Show Topics:

(1:44) “Should we talk about the book?” This question answers itself as Nat, Neil, and Adil dive into conversations about their favorite virtual reality video games and board games, as well. 

(7:05) A lot of games out there actually help you develop business and life skills. Although video games encourage high amounts of screen time, there is a lot of skills you can learn from them. There are also physical board games representative of the real world but with some fictional elements to it, making it very appealing and educational. 

(14:22) It was at this point that the co-hosts decided they're too full of tangents to do a book episode. Nat, Neil, and Adil go back to talking about board games and the fun of strategic games.

(18:00) Preventing burnout in longer-term projects. You can’t be on all the time. Creative work is also hard to do for extended periods of time because it can be limited by your energy and mental output. We may even have certain parts of the month or year where we’re extra productive and wonder why we can’t always be that way, but it’s important to remember that resting is just as important as being productive.

(21:48) The idea of being under-employed purposely. If you've worked for a larger company or consultancy, you often have the feeling that you always have to be "on". When you work for yourself, it’s easy to fall back into the thought pattern that you have to be working all the time.

(28:26) Social media and podcast presence while also having a job. There are now ways for employers to check the online behaviors of their employment candidates and screen them using AI-powered tools.

(34:01) Some educational or funny content we save or bookmark for later tend to get lost in our library of likes. Platforms should create a better system for organizing and saving likes and bookmarks so they can be useful when you need to visit them again.

(37:31) The mass quitting and letting go of employees at Twitter. Workplaces that are solely digital and how it compares to companies with a real-world product. The margins are very tight in retail and operating expenses have to be considered. Can these big tech companies run with only a small percentage of their workforce?

(43:03) The operating expenses of Twitter and how the new leadership has impacted the app over the past couple weeks. 

(47:52) Twitter never became the main social media app, which gives it a certain appeal. Human communication is very context based. Tweets can often taken out of context because you're limited in how much you can explain yourself in a series of tweets, whereas in an article or podcast episode, you can fully describe what you mean by something without it getting twisted.

(51:22) How communication and can often be unclear over the Internet. Tone can’t always be portrayed over a tweet reply, for example, making the receiver wonder whether it’s playful or aggressive.

(55:20) Twitter’s algorithm and how it puts content on your feed. A lot of it may depend on the content that you interact with, what you ignore, and who you choose to follow. Is it possible for AI to sift through and optimize your social media feeds?

(1:00:35) GPT-3 (Generative Pre-trained Transformer 3) and it’s capabilities. How can different tools and platforms incorporate GPT3 AI and what are some of its limits?

(1:06:11) That wraps up this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode where we will actually discuss Tao Te Ching. If you'd like to listen to our other episodes in our Great Book series, check out our two most recent ones: The Odyssey and The Iliad.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"Tell me about a complicated man. Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy, and where he went, and who he met, the pain he suffered in the storms at sea, and how he worked to save his life and bring his men back home. He failed to keep them safe; poor fools, they ate the Sun God’s cattle, and the god kept them from home. Now goddess, child of Zeus, tell the old story for our modern times. Find the beginning."

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil, Nat, and Adil continue with the next book on their Great Books Project: The Odyssey by Homer. This book begins at the end of the Trojan War as Odysseus embarks on his journey home. Listen along as we talk about Odysseus' adventures, flashbacks, and of course, plenty of tangents.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The argument of Odysseus as a hero vs. anti-hero
• Crypto, market cap, and the downfall of $BIRD
• AI and the future of how we write
• The reunification of Argos and Odysseus
• How guests are valued in different cultures

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the show:

• Socratic dialogue (3:33)
• 300 (6:29)
• Chesterson’s Fence (17:46)
• Bicameral mind (22:07)
• Domestication of dogs (33:51) 
• Bird Founder’s Stake Now Worth Less Than His Miami Mansion (47:05)
• Episode 7: A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency(1:07:58)
• Carthage (1:13:41)
• Lex (1:18:20) 
• The Infinite Article (1:22:04)
• Blinkist (1:23:40)

Books Mentioned:

• The Odyssey
• The Iliad (1:08) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Dante’s Inferno (8:39)
• The Fourth Turning (17:29) (Book Episode) 
• The Lessons of History (36:10) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• The Hobbit (40:45)
• Ulysses (47:58)
• Gödel, Escher, Bach (49:10) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• Infinite Jest (49:10) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• Atlas Shrugged (49:11) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft (55:48)
• Tao Te Ching (1:04:05) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Seeing Like a State (1:05:52) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• The Art of War (1:06:04)
• The Peloponnesian War (1:06:16)
• The Pioneers (1:07:30)
• The Epic of Gilgamesh (1:14:09) (Book Episode) 

People Mentioned:

• Ian McKellan (0:50)
• Plato (3:43)
• Eminem (4:18)
• Will Durant (34:53)
• Ryan Reynolds (43:38)
• James Joyce (47:59)
• Daniel Tosh (51:14)
• Stephen King (55:48)
• Brett Favre (58:01)

Show Topics:

(0:36) In this episode, we’re continuing from where we left off on our Great Books List diving into The Odyssey by Homer. In case you missed our previous episode on another great by Homer, The Iliad, make sure to go check that one out! The Iliad and Odyssey differ in the way the narrative unfolds, despite being written by the same author.

(5:17) The Odyssey is an oral story meaning that it’s been passed down by word of mouth. Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about some of the main differences between the Iliad and the Odyssey where the Odyssey was more story-driven and the Iliad presented more lessons and takeaways.

(7:21) Odysseus: Was he a hero or an anti-hero? In some contexts, he’s portrayed as ‘god-like’ and admired for his strength and achievements. In other cases such as in Dante’s inferno, Odysseus is deep in hell for his crimes.

(10:49) Where the story begins, it come years after the end of the Trojan War. There’s multiple layers to consider when recognizing the reliability of the narrator: Which of Odysseus' stories were dramatized by the author and how would it be different if told in Odysseus' exact words? 

(14:56) In short, the story is about Odysseus’ journey home from the Trojan War and all the adventures that happened along the way. One theme along his journey home was the idea of 'don't assume you know better', and to respect the wisdom of the gods or your elders.

(18:49) Although the Greek gods are supposed to be listened to and respected for their knowledge, there is always conflict and fighting among the gods. 

(21:25) We bring up the bicameral mind discussion from the last episode. Thinking of the gods not necessarily as deities but rather the intuition in our own minds. When it’s framed like that, it tells the lesson to not distrust your instinct too much.

(25:13) What was the reasoning of Odysseus returning home in disguise? Though he was gone for 20 years, none of his loved ones recognized him under his disguise as a beggar.

(30:33) The reunification of Argos and Odysseus. His dog recognized him immediately, though Odyssesus couldn't respond appropriately as he was still in disuise. Not many families in The Odyssey had dogs. History of the domestication of dogs.

(36:49) How characters in the story trusted and treated their guests. Odysseus' loved ones didn't know it was Odysseus they were welcoming, yet they treated him very warmly. It's easier in a smaller community to be more welcoming of a guest because you may have a shared history and culture, and more similarities. 

(40:34) If The Odyssey were a movie in today’s time what would it be like? 

(45:54) Another episode, another tangent! We talk about cryptocurrency, the meaning of market cap, and projects that went significantly down in value shortly after launch.

(47:55) Ulysses is a modern retelling of The Odyssey, but it's considered by many to be hard to read. There’s a difference when you have to read something vs. when you want to read something. It also matters at what point in your life you're reading a certain book.

(51:37) Trolling on Twitter - when people don’t recognize what’s trolling and what’s not.

(53:48) Nat and his progress on the book he’s writing. It can be hard to keep writing every day knowing it won’t be published for a long time. Nat, Neil, and Adil also talk about drug and alcohol use in famous figures such as Stephen King and Brett Favre.

(1:03:24) The next book we’re reading is Tao Te Ching, another Eastern text thought to be written around 600 BC. Check out our Great Books List for links to each book we will be reading!

(1:07:18) The Pioneers - building a town was so much different in the 1700s than it is now. How the west was settled by Americans who violently took over the territory. The stories we hear today on settlement are only the ones that survived. There are countless other stories in history that we’ll never hear.

(1:15:04) The use of AI and how it can replace many jobs we do today, including writing. Can you have quality writing without a person and their experiences behind it?

(1:22:02) Every article comes to an end, but what if there was technology that can continue to write itself as you are reading the text based on what you are interested in reading next? Lex (a tool by Every) gives us a summary of the Odyssey.

(1:26:36) That concludes this episode! Stay tuned for our next episode: Tao Te Ching. If you'd like to listen to our other episodes in our Great Book series, here are the first 3: Epic of Gilgamesh, Genesis, and Exodus.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Like the generations of leaves, the lives of mortal men. Now the wind scatters the old leaves across the earth, now the living timber bursts with the new buds and spring comes round again. And so with men: as one generation comes to life, another dies away.”

Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil, Nat, and Adil continue with the next book on their Great Books Project: The Iliad by Homer. This book explores the themes of fate, gods, and the glory of war. Listen along as we dive in to the stories of the Trojan War centering around the greatest warrior, Achilles.

We cover a wide range of topics including:

• The consequences of Achilles' rage and wrath
• Bicameral mind and the development of consciousness
• How war and battles were depicted at this point in time 
• What differentiates us from animals?
• Why gaining new experiences can expand your viewpoints

And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.

Links from the Episode:

Mentioned in the show:

• Episode 81: The Book of Exodus (0:28)
• Episode 80: The Book of Genesis (0:39)
• Riverside (1:18)
• Clubhouse (1:40)
• Twitter Held Discussions for $4 Billion Takeover of Clubhouse (2:05)
• Nat Chat episode featuring Neil (13:21)
• Bicameral Mentality (26:20)
• Achilles and Patroclus (55:49) 
• Nat’s Ethics notes (59:36)
• Godfather movie (1:09:28)

Books Mentioned:

• The Pioneers (5:16)
• The Peloponnesian War (12:13)
• Prometheus Bound (14:26)
• The Odyssey (26:16)
• The Mahabharata (38:21)
• The Qur'an (56:20) (Book Episode)
• The Epic of Gilgamesh (57:56) (Book Episode)
• Infinite Jest (1:06:30) (Book Episode 1) (Book Episode 2) (Nat’s Book Notes)
• East of Eden (1:09:07) (Nat's Book Notes)
• The Three-Body Problem (1:10:16) (Nat's Book Notes)
• Atlas Shrugged (1:12:27) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)

People Mentioned:

• David McCullough (5:16) 
• James Patterson (8:34)
• Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson (45:04)
• Jason Momoa (45:18)
• Russell Crowe (45:33)
• Brad Pitt (45:50)
• Tom Hiddleston (46:00)
• Vladimir Putin (49:57)
• Joe Biden (50:02)
• Nassim Taleb (1:06:16)

Show Topics:

(6:08) In today's episode, we're discussing The Iliad by Homer, written around 8th century BC. We’ve moved forward ~500-1000 years from where we started on our book list. Make sure to check out our Great Books List and follow along with us as we put out new episodes every 3 weeks!

(11:00) Homer included a lot of data on the ships back then, and The Iliad stores that historical information. There’s some element of using stories to record historical information.

(13:16) Reading about history makes you reflect on the accuracy of the narrative as it could have been written to serve the story they would most like to portray. As we read more of these books written in the same era, we may see some of the same historical events happening and spoken about in different ways, similar to how news outlets report the same events or world issues in much different ways.

(16:29) Very rarely does everyone objectively agree that something or someone is good or bad. Most conflicts will have people on both sides of the coin who have different backgrounds, values, and opinions.

(19:47) These gods are depicted as very human-like, and they do not closely resemble gods in the way that we typically think about gods. They are imperfect, and they also get urges and emotions just like we do.

(21:18) The stories of Achilles and the consequences of rage. Not only does he lose his bride, but also his best friend. On top of that, he loses his honor and dignity. As the story ends, it’s all about how he regains that honor and dignity and is able to move on from his mistakes.

(26:20) Bicameral mind: Humans back then were lacking what we call consciousness today. They heard and obeyed demands they heard in their minds from what they identified as gods. They didn’t hear their own mind as their own thoughts and urges, but rather as gods telling them to do it. When did consciousness develop?

(28:42) It’s implied in this text that we are not like the animals, and being able to suppress our urges of rage and wrath is what differentiates us. We have morals and know right from wrong. 

(34:23) Praying- Did it mean back then what it means now? Or is it more similar to manifestation and paying more attention to the things you wish for, such as money? It’s conceptually similar because it's a ritual that takes up a big part of your headspace.

(38:13) Neil makes a connection to the concepts in The Mahabharata where the good guys do a lot of bad things to win the war, and the bad guys act more honorably than even the good guys in some ways.

(42:21) The Ajax and Hector fight scene. Nat explains the difference in ancient military conflicts where many may have been resolved by the two armies marching up and meeting. If one army is much larger, the opposing army would admit defeat. If the army size is more balanced, they would choose a fighter on each side to battle against each other.

(44:55) It’s not a complete episode of Made You Think without a tangent! Who would play the characters of the Iliad if it were shot as a movie in today’s time?

(46:58) Achilles' battle with Hector. There are a lot of these duels, and while most remained honorable and respectful, this one does not. War was portrayed very different back then, and while it was still brutal, there were rules to war where everyone was on the same page rather than it being a free-for-all.

(51:21) The book has an interesting way of depicting the dynamics of male relationships. Achilles was extremely distraught over the loss of Patroclus. What was the extent of their friendship and how much of it has to do with the translation over time?

(56:17) Adil shares his experience reading the Qur'an where the author offers different translations side by side to help the reader get the full Arabic meaning of the text. When you translate a text into English, a lot of the meanings and artistry in the original language may get lost. 

(1:00:15) We all have ideas and concepts that we have focused on for long periods in our lives. Once you exhaust the value from an idea, you move on to new ideas and viewpoints that build from the previous. For example, you may read something early on in your life but not extract much value from it until later in your life when you have a new foundation on a given topic.

(1:03:01) Gaining experience to attach your newfound knowledge to. We each experience things at different points in our lives. Examples: losing a loved one or having kids. These experiences often change how you may think about things in your life.

(1:07:53) A monastic person spends a lot of time alone with the voices in their head, and they in some way become a trusted person when it comes to certain matters: Interpreting dreams, helping others to identify the significance of their thoughts, understanding consciousness, etc.

(1:08:58) In most good books, it’s clear who the good vs. bad characters are, but this is not true in all cases. There are many books and movies with very complex characters that go deeper than just whether they're good or bad.

(1:10:59) That wraps up this episode! The next book on our list is The Odyssey by Homer then it's back to the Bible for the book of Deuteronomy. You can catch our previous 3 episodes of the Great Book Series here - Epic of Gilgamesh, Genesis, and Exodus.

If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode.

You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads.

Thanks for listening. See you next time!