Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy will be leading a new organization called DOGE, the Department of Governmental Efficiency. Can they actually make the government more effective? Jennifer Pahlka is the author of Recoding America and she joins the podcast to talk about why the government is so ineffective in so many ways, whether or not Elon and Vivek have the right ideas, and what needs to be done to build a better state capacity.

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