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In this episode, Jesse Wolf Hardin sits down with Debora Greer for a thoughtful exploration of Makumba, an Afro-Indigenous spiritual tradition and philosophy of life that weaves together herbalism, ancestry, ritual, and relationship with the living world.

Together, they discuss what Makumba is, why it has been so widely misunderstood, and how its teachings invite us into a deeper relationship with plants, nature, community, and healing.

They also explore the impact of colonization on our connection to the Earth, the importance of honoring our ancestors, and why Debora believes that "nature is our greatest ancestor."

Whether you're an herbalist, naturalist, or simply curious about different ways of understanding our place within the web of life, this conversation invites you to slow down, listen deeply, and rediscover the wisdom of relationship.

If you'd like to learn from Debora in person, she'll be teaching three classes at the 2026 Good Medicine Confluence: Herbal Showers and Baths: A Makumba Healing Tool, Rose & Thorns of Death and Despair: The Teachings of Grandma Buruku, and 7 Knives and 7 Chili Peppers: Exu Magic for the Protection of the Oppressed.

This audio was extracted from the video version available on the HerbRally YouTube channel.

Jesse Wolf Hardin is an impactful author, ecosopher, ecological restorationist, personal counsel, graphic artist, musician, and historian on a mission –– a champion of diversity and what he coined "ReWilding," as well as an impassioned proponent of nature's medicines.

Wolf co-founded with Kiva Rose both the international Good Medicine Confluence gathering and Plant Healer Quarterly magazine, and is the author of over 25 books on herbalism, nature connection, and personal realization.

For more information go to PlantHealer.org.

The Plant Healer Online Bookstore is the largest single source or herbal related books and ebooks, both titles by Jesse Wolf Hardin and Kiva Rose, as well as numerous focused compilations by many dozens of other well known herbalists: PlantHealerBookstore.com

Plant Healer Magazine is the most in-depth and artistic magazine available for herbal practitioners, artisans and healers of culture, see: PlantHealerMagazine.com

Herbaria Monthly is a totally FREE full color zine, full of herbal information, inspiration and empowerment. Subscribe at PlantHealer.org

More Free Resources including complimentary guides to herb schools and suppliers can be downloaded at: LEARN MORE

Plant Healer on Instagram: @PlantHealer

Plant Healer on Facebook: @PlantHealer

Herbalism in your neck of the woods.

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DISCLAIMER

The information in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended as a substitute for advice provided by your physician or other medical professionals. Always consult a health care practitioner before using any herbal remedy or food, especially if you are nursing, pregnant, or have any medical condition.