In this episode, I am joined by Mark Vernon to discuss the relationship between spirituality, science, and meaning in the modern world. Mark explores how our conception of religion has narrowed to focus primarily on doctrines and morals rather than experiential dimensions, which is a relatively recent development in human history. Vernon describes how human spiritual intelligence evolved not merely as a survival mechanism but as a form of "niche exploration" that allowed humans to discover immaterial realities. He contrasts the dominant enlightenment epistemology of mastery and control with spiritual traditions that emphasize receptivity and participation. Throughout the conversation, Vernon weaves together insights from his background in physics, theology, philosophy, and psychotherapy to argue that reconnecting with our inner lives and recovering a sense of wonder might be essential for addressing our current meaning crisis.

You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube

Mark Vernon is a psychodynamic psychotherapist, philosopher, and author who previously served as an Anglican priest. With a background spanning physics, theology, and ancient Greek philosophy, Vernon has dedicated his career to exploring the intersection of spirituality, science, and human meaning. He hosts regular dialogues with scientist Rupert Sheldrake, writes extensively on philosophical and spiritual topics, and maintains an active presence through various media platforms including YouTube and Substack. Vernon's diverse intellectual journey reflects his ongoing exploration of how head and heart can connect to address fundamental questions of human existence. You can check out his books here.

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