Ep. 171 (Part 2 of 2) | An emotionally powerful and deeply inspiring conversation with renowned embodiment and trauma educator Mark Walsh from the U.K. and Ukrainian psychologist and trauma trainer Kristina Obluchynska, where we learn about effective ways of treating trauma in the middle of an ongoing war, what trauma therapists are left holding, and how beautiful is the human spirit when it embraces right action. When Russia commenced its full-scale invasion of Ukraine three years ago, Mark went to Ukraine, located willing psychology students, educated them in body-oriented trauma therapy and training, and with Kristina and several other trainees co-founded Sane Ukraine, with the urgent mission of preventing an epidemic of trauma disorders in Ukraine. Beginning with applying trauma first aid and teaching resilience skills in places like the local railroad station where people were coming in from the front lines, and in bomb shelters, Kristina and several other psychologists have now educated thousands of people about trauma—active duty soldiers, veterans, survivors, wives of combatants, and first-line responders such as doctors, teachers, and social workers—and trained hundreds of them to become trauma trainers themselves. 

It is an honor to bear witness to Mark’s courageous actions and the humble heroism of Kristina and her team in the face of the devastation being leveled on Ukraine and Ukrainians. “We don’t grieve,” Kristina tells us, “because grief comes after safety. We don’t even use the word safe anymore,” she continues, “only relatively safe.” Mark points out that modern warfare is not just running around with guns—drones hunt civilians and if you move, they kill you. “Do we all have PTSD?” the soldiers ask. With Sane Ukraine, there is someone to answer their questions and teach them what they can do to help themselves and each other. Resilience comes from relationship—from connection to self, others, nature, and spirit. Does the concept of post traumatic growth even apply considering the intensity of this war? co-host Roger wonders. At the end of this extraordinary, heartfelt conversation, when asked what we could do to help, Kristina advises, “Help the army. We are talking here about healing, but what we really need is to survive.” Recorded January 9, 2025.

“It’s not reasonable for young women to be talking about mass rape and torture in dark bomb shelters . . . There’s a darkness that will be there perhaps forever.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

• Surviving Bucha (00:57)
• The pros and cons of group work (03:23)
• Does the concept of post traumatic growth apply in the intensity of this war? (05:40)
• Singing traditional songs helps foster the belief that we will survive this (09:50)
• How does Mark help trainers to find strength? Love people unconditionally and continually (12:31)
• There are actually less mental health problems in Ukraine than in the UK or the US (16:35)
• What has been most inspiring for Mark? The girls—and the purity of the work (17:24)
• The hardest thing? The huge grief (18:53)
• What are Kristina’s practices to keep sane? (20:05)
• What is the hardest for Kristina? The guilt is the worst (23:38)
• What is most inspiring for Kristina? The ability to do something for people who have been in the war (25:02)
• What is the difference between pre-Ukraine Mark and post-Ukraine Mark? (26:33)
• The pre-war Kristina and the post-war Kristina: everything is possible (28:12)
• How can listeners help? Sane Ukraine could use funding & educational support; professionals could offer tension & trauma releasing (TRE) trainings (31:39)
• Help the army: we are talking about healing, but what we really need is to survive (33:49)

Resources & References – Part 2

• The Masha Fund, helping Ukrainian women overcome the psychological consequences of war
• Stuart Heller, The Dance of Becoming: Living Life as a Martial Art*
• Veteran Hub: providing peer-to peer veteran support, also serving those who are waiting for or who have lost loved ones in service
• The Association of Families of Defenders of Azovstal, the defenders of Mariupol united to accelerate the processes related to the return of soldiers home
• Mark Walsh, Kristina Obluchynska, co-founders, Sane Ukraine
• Mark Walsh, founder and CEO of Embodiment Unlimited
• Kristina Obluchynska can be contacted through Deep Transformation Podcast’s support email
• Mark Walsh, The Body in Coaching and Training: An Introduction to Embodied Facilitation,* Embodied Meditation: Mindfulness, the Body, and Daily Life*
• Mark’s Embodiment Coaching Podcast