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Fresh from the Summit, Kevin Oakley sits down with Rachel Spaugh for Office Hours to debrief on what stood out most. From how AI is reshaping content to how marketers can hand off great ideas to sales without losing trust, this one’s all about clarity, compression, and exerting creative control without chaos.When More Isn’t Better

• Faster isn’t smarter when the message is empty
• Real examples from Kevin and Rachel reveal why less content often hits harder

Holding Tension and Building Trust

• Every email is a promise worth keeping
• The smartest marketers surface friction early, turning lessons into loyalty

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Host Kevin Oakley joins Julie Jarnagin and Jackie Lipinski to unpack the newest AI experiments, marketing shifts, and growth mindsets shaping 2026 and beyond. 
From Meta’s surreal new playground to the delicate relationship between builder breakthroughs and removing “limiting factors,” this episode looks at how curiosity and clarity drive progress, even when tech or timelines get in the way. 
Special AnnouncementsThe next Market Proof Marketing Academy is just around the corner, but the waitlist is already almost full! If you want in on this unique opportunity to learn from DYC’s best and brightest - regardless of whether your builder works with Do You Convert - this is your chance. Seize the moment before the last few spots are gone. 
Key Topics Discussed

• Does the future belong to fewer, bigger players?
• Love the growth leaps, but remember to value every step
• Fever dream frontiers - is Meta wooing creators or consumers?
• Weighing the privacy costs of the “customized everything” digital dream

In the News

• Compass to acquire Anywhere, creating world's largest brokerage
• Meta "Vibes" is released - will anyone care?
• Advertising in 2030

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In this solo episode, Kevin Oakley takes you inside the room at a recent ULI panel. Builders, sales leaders, and consultants gathered to debate the toughest questions facing the industry, and Kevin is pulling back the curtain to share exactly what he was asked and how he answered.
Here are the five big questions he tackled:

• Beyond discounts: what really drives buyer traffic?
• Online sales: speed or personalization?
• Resale vs. new: who wins when rates drop?
• The holy grail: is it possible to achieve volume and margin?
• 2026: what’s ahead for builders?

Listen in for unfiltered answers that challenge assumptions, spotlight bold strategies, and point to the realities shaping the immediate future of homebuilding.

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Kevin Oakley and Rachel Spaugh are back in the studio for another round of Office Hours. In this episode, their discussion on AI, uncertainty, and messaging uncovers how to approach everything from fear to facts. 
Together they break down what to do when you need credibility and what's more powerful than certainty in your messaging right now.
Tune in to learn

• How your leaders think you’re using AI vs how you should be using it
• Why objections aren’t the problem you think they are
• Hear Kevin build an end of year campaign theme on the spot

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In this episode, host Kevin Oakley is joined by guest Kim Sandoval, Director of Corporate Marketing for Classic Homes. Together they discuss Kim's nonlinear career path in homebuilder marketing, revealing salient reminders not to box in yourself, your career, or your company's growth with narrow thinking. As Kevin and Kim share the gift of retrospect clarity, both of their histories serve as needed reminders that every great success story has periods of expansion and contraction - on multiple levels. 

Reminder: You + Kim + Chicago = Even More Influential Leadership Lessons

Listeners attending the 2025 Online Sales and Marketing Summit in Chicago in just two short weeks will have the chance to hear from Kim and other leaders live in Beth Russell's panel session, Everything the Light Touches is Yours: Real World Influence from Marketing Leaders. You won't want to miss this chance to hear Kim and her powerhouse peers dive deeper into real wins and lessons learned.

Key Topics

• Growth is Not Linear - How Kim pivoted from agency-side builder experience, to consulting for builders, before finally going all-in on one culture that captured her heart
• Stay the Course - The crucial advice she has for everyone doubting this market right now, pulled straight from her time striking out on her own to serve builders during the 2008 recession
• Find Your Fit - Ideas and encouragement on where to find your perfect fit, even if it lands you in an unexpected seat or an entirely different part of the business

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In this episode, Julie Jarnagin joins Beth Russell and Jackie Lipinski to discuss diagnosing hidden community issues, aligning the whole team around intent, and how to nail messaging and positioning in a shifting market. From long-form articles around behavior data to hot takes on who actually uses Bing, this one is sure to have you thinking about familiar topics in new ways. Story Time

• Jackie - The problems that are hidden, but obvious once you see them
• Julie - Sometimes the most inspiring thing you can do is ten minutes of nothing
• Beth - Ground your playbook in intent, then coordinate the plays from there

In the News

• New Homes are Now Nearly 20k Cheaper Than Existing Homes
• The Behavioral Data You Need to Improve Your User's Search Journey
• Angry and disappointed, if not surprised: The ad industry reacts to the Google search remedies ruling 

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In this episode, Kevin Oakley joins Jackie Lipinski and Beth Russell in the studio to reflect on the fine lines between lying and storytelling in marketing, the attribution lies you must know (so you can avoid them), and how creatives in our industry are inspiring the DYC marketing team.
Listen closely - this short episode packs in some big questions and even bigger topics in today's ai-driven digital marketing landscape.
Story Time

• Beth - finding secondhand joy in watching others do creative work
• Jackie - building your own breadcrumbs if you're doing something BIG
• Kevin - the inherent conflict between truth and storytelling at the heart of being a marketer

In the News

• GEO x local SEO: What it means for the future of discovery

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In this episode, Julie Jarnagin and Jackie Lipinski reflect on all things end-of-year mindset, creative messaging, and the joys of not getting eaten by bears. 

As Jackie and Julie summited the heights of Mt. Rainier with camping gear in tow, marketing inspiration found them where they least expected it. Today, they’re bringing all the fresh insights back to the MPM studio to share with listeners so you can get ahead of your own end-of-year mountains to move.

Special Announcements

The Online Sales and Marketing Summit is close to full for 2025. If you haven’t gotten your ticket yet, save your seat (and hotel room!) before they’re sold out.

Zoom Out

• If weekly dips are spooking you, step back.
• Step back, but fall forward: the holidays are coming.

Take a Hike

• Get away from the desk - inspiration is waiting in new places
• Love your limits - limitations can produce the best creative work

In the News

• Home Purchases Are Getting Canceled at a Record Rate
• Move-Now Buyers Are Still Driving Sales. Are You Ready?

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In this milestone 400th episode of Market Proof Marketing, Kevin Oakley, Julie Jarnagin, and Beth Russell share some provocative takes on what happens when marketing and sales stop collaborating and start competing for credit. When marketing and sales become a marriage on the rocks, someone has to take the first step toward resolution. Learn what every great therapist knows not to do when this happens. 

From illuminating marriage metaphors to lessons from masterminding pop stars (pssst - we hear there may be a TS12 listening party in Julie's room at Summit?), the crew delves deep into all the ways rethinking your cross-departmental steps can streamline your success.

Special Announcements

The Online Sales & Marketing Summit registration is closing soon - if it doesn't sell out first! Late-comers, consider this the official last call to secure your ticket. 

Story Time

• Beth - Digging deep on internal attribution to give marketing, online sales, and onsite sales each the credit they're due
• Julie - Taking common ideas, but executing on them uncommonly well, is what really moves the needle
• Kevin - Building a waterfall of urgency through marketing and sales collaboration 

In The News

• Instagram Adds TikTok Style Repost Feature for Reels
• Market Survey: It's a Whole New Housing Market
• Homebuyer Outlook from Zonda

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In this episode, Rachel returns for another round of Office Hours with Kevin. Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood, overindexed, and emotionally charged concepts in homebuilder marketing: attribution.
Rachel, still relatively new to the industry, brings the curiosity of someone learning in real time, asking the foundational questions many marketers may feel too embarrassed to raise around attribution. Kevin breaks it all down with signature clarity, diving deep into the messy intersection of intent, data privacy, ad platform incentives, and why marketers should stop trying to prove value with “magic wand” numbers.
This episode builds on DYC's Attribution is BS article series by Beth Russell, Jackie Lipinski, and Julie Jarnagin, using real-world analogies to challenge marketers to think smarter and more holistically about the stories they seek and share around data.
Attribution Is Breaking

• Watered-down signals are the new normal thanks to privacy rules and technology companies fighting against each other
• Which came first - the coupon or the craving? Why attribution isn't black and white even when it's "accurate"
• How misunderstanding attribution could cost you WAY more than you think

Intelligence You Can't Simulate

• Who - not what - can create real clarity around attribution
• AI and attribution: over-simulated and overstated, but most keep falling for it
• There is no dashboard for common sense

Listen now. Email your questions for future episodes of Office Hours to [email protected].