Market Proof Marketing: Home Builder Marketing Insights

Beth, Jackie, and Julie uncover the value of process-driven problem-solving in marketing, from diagnosing odd data spikes to rethinking event strategy. They explore how tools like Loom, AI creator hubs, and collaborative data practices can transform communication and performance. Plus, honest talk about what Mercedes at The Masters can teach builders about intentional brand experiences.

Story Time (02:06): 

• Jackie’s knee injury turns into a masterclass on data diagnosis and marketing analysis—hello, Market Proof Algorithm IRL.
• Julie shares a case of suspicious ad results that weren’t what they seemed, and the importance of digging deeper.
• Beth compares marketing detective work to an episode of House (or Scooby-Doo), and how uncovering truth takes time.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Over 50% of tickets have been sold! Class begins May 6th.

Online Sales & Marketing Summit VIP Tickets Now On Sale!

In The News (21:13): 

Meta's Instagram Announces New AI-Powered Tools, Creator Marketing Solutions

Bad Data Bleeds Homebuilder Profits - Time to Stop The Loss

(Referenced) Attribution is B.S. - 3 Part Guide

Things We Love - Things We Hate (31:33):

• Jackie: Winning her Toastmasters speech competition—proof that exposure therapy works!
• Julie: Her 16-year-old’s joy over his first car (older than he is).
• Beth: Watching her Marketing Leadership Collective cohort bond and pour into one another.

In this episode, Kevin, Beth, and Julie dive into the psychological journey of today’s homebuyer—especially how they often say they’re “just looking” while subconsciously preparing to buy. From a sister’s “accidental” contract to the unexpected post-sale influence of a handyman, this one’s all about perception, timing, and customer experience. They also unpack the return of escalation clauses (wait - WHAT?), digital marketing data myths, and the tangled web of AI over-promises—yes, we’re looking at you, Siri.

Story Time (01:00): 

• Mike Lyon reflects on early OSC days, when managing leads felt like a side hustle.
• Kevin Oakley’s family listens to old podcast episodes, roasting his past takes and how you can get more sales with fewer leads.
• Jackie shares a content strategy for competing with national builders.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Tickets are now available! Class begins May 6th.

Online Sales & Marketing Summit VIP Tickets Go On Sale April 4th. You're on the VIP list, right?

In The News (16:45): 

What's Your CTR Telling You?  A Guide to Understanding Click-Through Rate

Apple Is Lying About Apple Intelligence

7 Facts About Today's Buyers

Perplexity's Biggest Ad Yet Pits Its AI Search Against "Poogle"

Things We Love - Things We Hate (41:29):

• Beth: TwoPages Curtains
• Julie: Jiu Jitsu
• Kevin: A fancy letter opener, and the guitar his kids got him

Kevin Oakley is back this week, and is joined by Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell. This week's episode kicks off with a funny story from Kevin about being everyone's best friend, and shifts into story time, covering insightful calls with builders the team has had recently. News stories discussed include Google lifting its 2019 ban on fingerprinting for advertisers, a deep dive into the effectiveness of builder incentives, AI readiness in homebuilding, and a new task manager blog written by DYC's very own, Samantha Kellenberger!

Story Time (02:31): 

• Mike Lyon reflects on early OSC days, when managing leads felt like a side hustle.
• Kevin Oakley’s family listens to old podcast episodes, roasting his past takes and how you can get more sales with fewer leads.
• Jackie shares a content strategy for competing with national builders.

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

Unlock Your Digital Marketing Potential: Master Proven Strategies With The Upgraded Market Proof Marketing Academy!
Tickets are now available! Class begins May 6th.

In The News (24:15): 

Why "Just" is the Most Dangerous Word in Marketing and Design

Redfin Acquired By Rocket Companies

AI Search Has Some Big Problems

Google Announces "AI Mode" For Search Results That Only Shows You AI Slop

Forget Dream Homes - Here's What First Time Buyers Really Want in 2025

Things We Love - Things We Hate (53:30):

• Jackie: Her son’s birthday & the infamous "Bluey" cake fail.
• Mike: His love-hate relationship with AI for schoolwork.
• Kevin: Discovering that both he & his wife are obsessed with analogies.

Story Time:

• $50 gift card prize for top IBS takeaways from All Access members
• Beth shares insights from an Oscar winner that can apply to builders
• Jackie has an incredible customer service experience that included a lot of content
• Kevin did a webinar for the WHLG about Realtor relations with builders - and shares his favorite question from Q&A

Market Proof Marketing Academy Is Back - And Upgraded! (23:50):
May 6 - 8th plus 8 weeks of ongoing education and additional opportunities

In The News (26:50): 

• 3 Keys To The Spring Market from Builder Magazine (plus an in-depth discussion on the use of incentives)
• YouTube Mid-Roll Ads Improving Soon
• 5 Trillion Reasons Google Searches Still Matter
• Should You Tell Your Prospects To Buy Before The Tariffs? (discussion about the article - not as much talk about the article)

Things We Love - Things We Hate (50:15):

• Beth: Spring training!
• Jackie: Her ideal birthday present
• Kevin: If Apple made a 2nd monitor you can travel with (and it has a touch screen!)

The 2025 International Builders' Show (IBS) was a compelling experience for the entire Do You Convert team! It was a memorable event filled with many highlights, including presentations from our very own Julie Jarnagin, Karla Tuten and Kevin Oakley! In this episode, the team discusses their biggest takeaways from IBS. Topics covered include: 

• AI Aids in Interior Design
• Storytelling & Data in Marketing
• A Call for More Diverse Perspectives
• Practical AI & Feedback Loops
• Online Sales and Marketing Collaboration
• & Much More!

Below, team members expand upon their key takeaways:

Karla Tuten: 

A whirlwind of inspiration and education is how I would define this past week. The familiar faces of our builder partners is particularly refreshing. With notebooks full of ideas, my biggest takeaway is that there is a real cost to inaction. But on that same note, to be successful at anything is a process, not a product. 

Kevin Oakley: 

Even though the full spring market hasn't appeared yet, the vibe of the show was overwhelmingly positive. Also interesting was that although the overall show attendance was one of the highest in years, the sales and marketing attendance felt lower than in years past (I could be wrong -- but many of the encore sessions were more lightly attended than in prior years). On the other hand, I also spoke to more first-time attendees than perhaps any other year I can remember, and all had good things to say about their experience. 

Of course, this year had more than enough conversation about AI, but it felt like nuance was back a bit more in most sessions. It wasn't as much "adopt A.I. or die" as "be thoughtful and strategic in your limited adoption for now, and pay attention to the future." Finally, I spoke with a few different stock analysts who cover the housing market, and they were mostly aligned that the second half of this year may end up being stronger than the first half - similar to the pattern of 2023's market. 

Mike Lyon: 

It's all about the hall. I'm always able to pick something up from the education sessions but a lot of the learning comes from the direct conversations in the hallways. As long as you are talking to the right people... and there is a high concentration of the right people at the show. 

Jen Barkan: 

This was one of my favorite years. I really enjoyed being able to support colleagues, industry friends and builder partners as they shined on stage. Highlights from my time at the show include:

• Karla's session on brand consistency (commit to the bit!).
• Julie's session on marketing mistakes (make sure you're looking at the RIGHT data!).
• Haley Naebig with NoviHome's session on customer experience, and her quote, "Scared money don't make money!" 

We even had some of our partners spread the good word of online sales and speak on the importance of handoff and collaborating with onsite sales! Speaking of shining, congrats to our online sales specialists who won awards at the Nationals event, too! 

Jackie Lipinski: 

Magic and inspiration happens in those small moments of togetherness, and this year at the show it was no exception. The power of storytelling with marketing was the name of the game, and everyone must embody the brand and communicate it authentically. My other favorite thought-provoking moments was from a presentation from Steve Shoemaker with Ideal Homes, where he emphasized testing ideas with small "bullets" before committing to the big "cannonballs," along with Brian McCarthy with Abrazo and RIoT Technology's survivorship based analogy, which reminds us to challenge assumptions and look for the missing data before making decisions. 

Beth Russell: 

As the Builders' Show came to a close, I found myself gathered with a group of industry leading women in Sales Central, reflecting on the week and our industry as a whole. Our conversations centered around leadership, support, and the importance of creating space - for ourselves, others, and new ideas. What makes the show so special is that there's room for everyone and their unique perspectives and experiences. By sharing our journeys, we help others grow, learn, and feel empowered to step outside their comfort zones. Some of my favorite moments include:

• Steve Shoemaker's honest take on mistakes he made, risks he took, and lessons he learned. 
• Chip Bell's endless charisma on stage, passionately discussing the view from the customer. 
• The Marketing Leadership Collective Dinner at my all-time favorite, China Polblano. 
• Brian McCarthy's natural storytelling ability.
• Craig Neal and Taylor Humphry throwing paper airplanes at us. 
• All. Of. The. Hugs. 

Julie Jarnagin:

What an amazing week with some amazing people! My favorite part of IBS 2025 was spending time with the Do You Convert team and all of our builder partners. Our very own Karla Tuten had an excellent presentation on brand consistency, reminding us just how important it is to reinforce your brand at every single touchpoint. I also heard a fascinating presentation on how AI is being used in the design space on time-consuming tasks and providing designers more time on the creative aspects of their work. 

Kevin Oakley is back this week, and is joined by Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell. This week's episode kicks off with a funny story from Kevin about being everyone's best friend, and shifts into story time, covering insightful calls with builders the team has had recently. News stories discussed include Google lifting its 2019 ban on fingerprinting for advertisers, a deep dive into the effectiveness of builder incentives, AI readiness in homebuilding, and a new task manager blog written by DYC's very own, Samantha Kellenberger!

Story Time (04:40): 

• Julie has been working on her IBS presentation around brand consistency, and how providing guardrails (using LEGO as a great example) keeps things consistent while using user generated content. 
• Kevin follows-up surrounding a recent conversation about creating rules, and showcasing content to inform certainty. 
• Beth had an interesting call with a company owner, who referenced the Hippocratic Oath that doctors make -- do no harm -- and tied it to their website. For example, putting too much information out there and over-engineering what you're showcasing can cause more harm than good. 
• Kevin reminds: until you hit a minimum lead quantity, you don't get to complain about lead quality! 
• Kevin spoke to a builder this week who has one community performing very differently than others despite having similar processes for marketing. Using GA4's path exploration tool, he noticed that the options people were clicking most were the items right in the center/most obvious. 
• He encourages marketers to use this tool, and view it from the eyes of a customer. 
• Mobile reality can't be ignored or fixed -- you can only do so much on a mobile screen. 

In The News (28:13): 

Google just lifted its 2019 ban on fingerprinting for advertisers

• Google now allows advertisers to track users across devices and websites, collecting data points like IP addresses, operating system details, and screen resolution.
• Kevin's hunch is we only see this live for a short time before it's taken away again, but they'll collect a significant amount of data in the meantime.

The Cost of Incentives: Have Buyers Come to Expect Perks?

• Are consumers addicted, are builders addicted, or both?
• Kevin recaps the importance of the messaging of "new," and how you don't have to offer the biggest new incentive, you need to lean into how consumers want to stay informed. 
• One nuance discussed is how some customers don't qualify without them.

The Seven Stages of AI Readiness In Homebuilding 

• From hype to impacti, AI is more than a buzzword. 
• Julie loves the advice to evaluate AI vendors with a critical eye, and reminds you that if you're headed to IBS, there will be a lot of buzzwords, but you need to ask great questions and "pull back the onion."
• You need to have a clear process on how your business operates before you can layer in AI -- rethink workflows not just technology. 
• Avoid AI for AI's sake -- start with clear business goals. 

Which Task Manager Tool is Best for Your Team?

• The best project management tool is the best one everyone in your organization will use! 
• If you're looking into using a task manager to help your team (Monday, Asana, Trello, etc.) she outlines the pros and cons to help you make an informed decision.
• Beth remembers wanting to implement something for her team, and asking Kevin how to get started, and thinks the ease-of-use summary was so helpful in the blog. 
• Come for the writing, stay for the summary chart! 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (53:38):

• Beth has entered "Masters season" in the Augusta area, and is fascinated by how intertwined it is into the culture. She is equally obsessed and perplexed. 
• Julie is in the midst of Mardi Gras, in full king cake and parade season. But her favorite thing is going to thrift stores, and loves the hunt. 
• Kevin's favorite is the Hollyland Lark M2S Microphone, which is extremely small, and is a great price for 2 mics. 

Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell are here for a special Valentine's Day episode! They kick things off looking forward to the 2025 International Builders' Show (IBS), and share tips that you may not have thought of, that will make your time in Vegas more enjoyable and impactful if you're attending! They also share some really exciting news out of DYC -- the release of our brand-new SEM-PPC Quarterly Benchmarks! News topics include OpenAI's recent Super Bowl commercial, and an interesting YouTube fact that marketers need to consider. 

Story Time (02:42): 

• Julie is looking forward to IBS! 
• She shares tips that aren't-so-common, but super helpful: bring a microphone if you're shooting content! 
• Check out a variety of content and take the time to dig through some of the lesser known sessions. 
• Snacks! It can be hard to find time to wait in line or grab food, so Julie recommends bringing granola bars. 
• Beth is noticing a theme of builders taking a journey of discovering what makes them unique, and urges marketers to discover, "What problem are you trying to solve for your customers?" 
• If you solved a problem for a customer, no matter how small, it's such an important message to be sharing across your platforms. 

In The News (11:35): 

Q4 2024 SEM/PPC Benchmarks

• Sarah Simmerman released our first-ever Quarterly SEM/PPC Benchmarks to complement the popular Online Sales Benchmarks. 
• Helps you view trends across 90+ builder partners and compare how you are performing. 
• Provides a great example for storytelling, and how to provide data in an impactful way. 

2025: The Year Homebuilders Prove Who They Really Are And Can Be

• The quote that stood out to Beth: "The firms that thrive in 2025 and beyond won't just be those who build efficiently, it'll be the ones that build trust."
• People are struggling to identify how they can navigate this market against big builders, and building trust is at the essence of that. 
• How can you build trust from an organic point-of-view?
• The process of purchasing and marketing a home is very connected to human psychology.

OpenAI's ChatGPT Super Bowl commercial was created entirely by humans, and maybe we don't have to fear AI after all 

• The company opted not to use AI in the creation process to show that it's an extension of human creativity. 
• They're showcasing how the tool can be used to expand upon human creativity, vs. replacing it.

YouTube is now even bigger on TVs than phones

• While Beth finds this article interesting, she isn't surprised, as an early adopter of YouTube TV. 
• She shares how they adapted well to amass a great library and offerings. 
• As marketers, don't disregard YouTube! 
• Julie brings up the huge desire for longer form videos -- how can you take everyday interactions and purpose it for this?
• Consistency is key, and don't be afraid to explore video editing AI tools. 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (30:43):

• Julie has a bit of a sweet tooth, and has been loving and hating all of the Valentine's Day candies. Did you know that Nerd clusters have similar macros to the gels people use for long distance running?
• Beth has been prioritizing closet organization, and is using clear bins to make it even more functional. 

Jen Barkan joins the podcast this week for a very special episode with Julie Jarnagin and Kevin Oakley. In Story Time, Julie highlights the importance of detailed messaging, referencing a builder survey on buyer preferences, while Kevin stresses having strong systems first, and Jen shares insights from National OSC Day and a creative prospecting strategy. In The News covers Q4 Benchmarks, a Homes By Dickerson award-winning case study, shifts in commission post-NAR settlement, and debates over Super Bowl ad spending. And finally, in Things We Love - Things We Hate, Julie shares her journey in making King cake, Kevin shares exciting news about an upcoming trip to Guatemala, and Jen finds both value and stress in her new Oura smart ring. 

Story Time (00:37): 

• Julie has been deep-diving into messaging with builders, and emphasizes that in today's market, we need to be really paying attention to those small details. 
• They discussed a builder who surveyed a VIP list, and saw that 70% of those surveyed wanted a house that was 3,000 sq. ft. or lower, and didn't care about pendant lights. They detail the importance of sharing that messaging, and how profound that process was for their company.
• Kevin "double clicks" on making sure your systems and processes are down first, which allows you to then focus on your messaging. 
• Jen shares our recent celebrations surrounding National OSC Day that took place on February 9th, and a recent prospecting strategy she utilized with an OSC, and how they worked around a tricky on-site scheduling barrier.
• Did you know there are over seven events listed currently on DYC's website? Kevin shares details about an upcoming speaking appearance, and a special breakfast event happening at the 2025 International Builders' Show. 

In The News (21:02): 

Q4 Benchmarks and 2024 Wrap-Up 

• Online Sales remains a constant in a changing market. 
• From Q3 to Q4, appointments from aged leads increased from 19% to 24%.

Homes By Dickerson Case Study 

• Julie shares the builders' dedication to their local Parade of Homes, and how the challenge was creating visuals for homes that weren't built yet. 
• Inspired by boutique hotels, each home had a different curated theme. 
• The builder is up for a NAHB Silver Award. 

Here's what else a $7M, 30-second Super Bowl budget can purchase in 2025

• They discuss whether a Super Bowl commercial is a good use of spend, and how their perspective has changed after reading the article. 
• Do you remember the commercial that was just a QR code?
• Kevin is surprised by companies who produce amazing commercials, but never air them again.

 Commissions Have Risen Slightly For Affordable Homes, Fallen Slightly For Expensive Homes, Since NAR Settlement Took Effect

• Jen shares a peek into the conversations happening on the online sales side, and what they are hearing from agents during calls, as well as buyers asking how having a realtor affects their spending power.

Things We Love - Things We Hate (44:10):

• It's King cake season in Louisiana, and Julie decided to make her own! It took 24 hours, and although it tasted good, she said it wasn't worth all the trouble. 
• Kevin finally got new glasses, and really enjoys being able to see well. But what he hates, is that he got two different kinds of glasses and they didn't pass the kid test. He and his wife are also helping to take 25 high school students to Guatemala, and an app he heard about this weekend called How We Feel, a journal for your wellbeing. 
• Jen got the Oura Smart Ring and loves all of the stats it shows, but her "readiness score" is causing her some stress and to overthink. That said, Julie has been appreciating Jen's advice from the ring! 
 

 Join us for episode 373 as Jackie Lipinski and Julie Jarnagin cover exciting news from DYC's online sales team and upcoming events. A big topic this week is the almost out-of-nowhere emergence of DeepSeek, a new AI app that has the world talking. They also cover Threads -- which now offers ads -- and the importance of authenticity when selling a product, and not just focusing on overloading information. 

Story Time (01:14): 

• Jackie brought up the quotes she received for redoing her deck, and reminds you that while it's great to be prepared, authenticity and supporting your customer is more important than checking off boxes and overloading information
• Julie shares the DYC University we're holding for new hires, and the benefit of taking the time to learn what other individuals in your company do on a day-to-day. She also reminds marketers to be cognizant of making sure to share what you do with your team, and ensure your marketing department doesn't have a PR problem. 

In The News (15:40): 

• Q4 Benchmarks and 2024 Wrap-Up (https://www.doyouconvert.com)
• 2025 Online Sales Academy: Leadership Edition (https://onlinesales.doyouconvert.com)
• U.S. stock markets tumble as investors worry about DeepSeek (https://www.npr.org)
• Meta Launches ads on Threads (https://searchengineland.com)
• ICON, a builder of 3-D printed homes last valued around $2 billion, cuts around 25% of staff (https://techcrunch.com)

Things We Love - Things We Hate (33:12):

• Jackie was part of a Toastmasters competition, and although she's a co-host on a podcast and talks for a living, she was a little nervous! But she ended up winning, and gets to go to the next level of the competition! So a friendly reminder: even though you do something often, it's ok to be afraid or nervous. 
• After all of the snow in Louisiana, and the return back to warmer temps, things in Julie's house are now snapping and breaking, which has been less-than-fun. 
 

 Join Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin and Beth Russell for an exciting new episode! They kick things off by applying recent experiences to insightful marketing opportunities, and sharing the importance of speaking your customers' language. Julie talks about the team's upcoming trip to Las Vegas for the 2025 International Builders' Show, and the team gives practical advice for those looking into some influencer marketing this year. 

Story Time (03:08): 

• Beth brings up an example surrounding the times we nearly trip on uneven pavement, and how it relates to our marketing strategies. 
• Julie brings a prop -- her Native body wash -- which has two columns next to the ingredients, one showing the name, and the other explaining what it actually is. Things brings up a good lesson for builders in the importance of speaking our customers' language. 
• Jackie is getting a new deck put in, and shares the different approaches she experienced when getting quotes, and how it shaped her expectations. 

In The News (17:00): 

Join Do You Convert at the 2025 International Builders' Show 

• Julie shares the dates and locations that she, Kevin Oakley and Karla Tuten will be speaking 
• Kevin will be talking about leveraging technology for incredible customer experience
• Karla will be talking about the importance of brand consistency 
• Julie shares a story about her "what not to do" style presentation
• The trio reminds you -- wear comfortable shoes at IBS! 

How to Win With Influencer Marketing In a Year of Big Change and Endless Options

• Authenticity is such an important element, and the way you can merge someone's content into your storytelling is where a story comes to life 
• An "influencer" you work with doesn't always need to be someone with the largest page, it can be those who work at and are passionate about your company 

Has spring housing demand already started?

• For new homes -- it's our season! Now is the time to put your foot on the gas. 
• They discuss trends in the appointment-to-sale ratio and the 2024 Wrapped and Q4 Online Sales Benchmarks that just dropped and will be discussed in more detail in a future episode! 

Google Ads Search Max - new match type spotted

• A new match type -- smart matching -- has been spotted by some users 
• Google hasn't announced yet what the new match type spotted is exactly 
• It appears to be more A.I. based 

Things We Love - Things We Hate (34:55):

• Julie's favorite right now is that we are hiring for a Marketing and Events Manager at Do You Convert! She also loves the app Hollarhype, that gives friends and family opportunity to share voice memos with you while you're running, which was so beneficial during she and Jessie Suggs' marathon! 
• Beth's favorite is kicking off the Marketing Leadership Collective for 2025! 
• Jackie is starting a book club with friends and would love your favorite recommendations: [email protected].