Shermer and Shellenberger discuss: the original article in Debrief • the authors Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal • why this story was not covered by the New York Times or the Washington Post • whistleblower David Grusch and his claim that the U.S. government and its allies have in their possession "intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin," along with the dead alien pilots • claims of the many types of alien ships and alien beings, and that the aliens might be multi-dimensional in nature • that there is a sophisticated cover-up by the military of which even the POTUS isn't aware • what Shellenberger's new sources told him about Grusch's claims, and more…

Michael Shellenberger is an investigative journalist who has broken major stories on crime and drug policy; homelessness; Amazon deforestation; rising climate resilience; growing eco-anxiety; the U.S. government's role in the fracking revolution; climate change and California's fires, and now UFO whistleblowers, which he revealed in his substack article in Public. He was on the show previously to discuss his book Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All, and since then he wrote San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities. Earlier this year he worked with Elon Musk, Bari Weiss, and Matt Taibbi on the "Twitter Files," which revealed the extent to which censorship of unpopular ideas and politically incorrect beliefs was rampant at Twitter before Musk purchased the company. In his Public Substack article Shellenberger revealed what he learned from UFO whistleblowers, which he shares with us in this episode.