Philosophers Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks bring their intellectual rigor to marriage and relationships. They sit down with Erik Torenberg to discuss their relationship's beginnings (when Agnes was Arnold's professor), their Platonic versus Aristotelian disagreements about whether marriage is something to transcend or achieve, and why relationships must "escape their beginnings" to thrive. Agnes explains why "marriage is a preparation for divorce," while Arnold argues the healthiest foundation for partnership isn't reciprocal support but simply appreciating how your partner lives—what he calls "bearing witness.".

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

* New Yorker article on Agnes and Arnold, by Rachel Aviv: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/13/agnes-callard-profile-marriage-philosophy

* Arnold Brooks: http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/arnold-brooks

* Pre-order Agnes Callard's new book Open Socrates: https://wwnorton.com/books/open-socrates

* Agnes Callard on Upstream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JotaCsaG3Y

FOLLOW ON X:

Agnes - @agnescallard

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(01:49) Intro

(02:08) Agnes' and Arnold's relationship background

(08:13) Marriage and philosophy connection

(16:38) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(18:13) Discussion about divorce

(26:37) Relationships haunted by their beginnings

(30:18) Maintaining friendship with an ex-partner

(34:00) Advice on choosing a partner

(43:34) Conflict about ambition and contentment

(49:35) Arnold's advice to overthink marriage together

(59:42) Parenting philosophy and making children interesting

(1:04:12) Reflections

(1:08:17) Wrap

Sasha Chapin and Cate Hall have been together for three years. Sasha is a writer and co-founder of a perfume company, while Cate is a former pro poker player and CEO of a foundation. They talk about radical honesty in relationships, why the Enneagram can help bridge extreme personalities, and commitment over connection.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero 

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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FOLLOW ON X:

Sasha - @sashachapin

Cate - @catehall

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:26) How They Met

(05:15) Initial Incompatibility vs Sense of Inevitability

(11:41) Complementary Extremes

(14:37) The Reverse Honeymoon Period

(15:05) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(17:57) Reversed Gender Roles

(24:51) Radical Honesty

(29:02) Levels of Woo

(29:38) Spiritual Alignment

(31:41) The Enneagram as Relationship Tool

(45:02) Relationship Advice: Marriage Timing and Commitment

(51:47) Puzzle Difficulty vs Slush Difficulty

(57:58) Commitment Before Connection

(1:00:12) Reverse Catfishing

(1:02:00) Wrap

Adam Gries and Rie Yano are both startup founders now building in the longevity space (Vitalism). They discuss their approach to partnership, from their serendipitous first meeting (started as a misunderstanding) to building a 50/50 marriage while running companies and raising children. They examine why great relationships shouldn't require constant work, how they maintain true equal responsibilities, and why finding the right partner parallels finding an exceptional co-founder.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero 

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

FOLLOW ON X:

Rie - @rieglobe

Adam - @adamgries

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro and Preview

(01:50) "The One": Their Unique Meeting Story

(08:25) "Co-locating": Their Innovative Long-Distance Approach

(19:39) "Work is for Fools": Their Anti-Work Philosophy

(23:05) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(24:40) The One Hard Thing - What Relationships Are Able to Handle

(30:21) Highest Tension Moments: Working Together & Lemonade Incident

(37:23) The True 50-50 Partnership

(40:56) Systems for Success

(45:05) Practical Hacks: Google Calendars & "Airing of Grievances"

(47:19) Life board of directors meetings

(52:16) On Men Doing More

(57:13) Full Stack Parents

(59:10) Monogamy: Intentional Choice or Default?

(1:00:38) Chasing Longevity: Supporting a Partner with Unconventional Goals

(1:03:26) Money & Career Dynamics

(1:08:32) Modern Parenting Approach

(1:11:18) If You Knew Then? Tolerating Pain & Cutting Losses

(1:14:20) The Illusion of Difficulty: How to Find a Great Match

(1:17:49) Finding Your "Three Sigma" Match

(1:21:21) Closing Thoughts & Final Advice

Tara Viswanathan (founder who recently sold her startup) and Alex Modon (startup founder) share their journey from a 15-minute Bumble date to marriage. They discuss Tara's systematic approach to dating (including analyzing 60 first dates), building a relationship while running startups, and their thoughts on balancing ambitious careers with starting a family. A rare glimpse into two founders making partnership work.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero 

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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FOLLOW ON X:

Tara - @TaraViswanathan

Alex - @alexmodon

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

Books

The Defining Decade by Meg Jay: https://www.amazon.com/Defining-Decade-Your-Twenties-Matter/dp/0446561754

Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro and Preview

(01:41) Tara's Unconventional Quest for "The One"

(05:19) Alex's Journey to Finding Love Unintentionally

(07:53) Tara's "Crazy" Playbook: Love Hacks and Radical Self-Improvement

(12:59) Lessons Learned from Countless "I Dos" (and "I Don'ts")

(14:14) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(15:49) A Dynamic Approach to Partnership

(18:24) Considering Age Rate and Stage of Life

(19:35) Reclaiming Authentic Power in Love and Life

(23:36) Decoding Each Other's Communication Styles

(28:41) Integrating Family and Work Adventures

(32:50) A Shared Vision for Family and Career

(36:26) Future Family Plans: Adoption

(50:39) Hot Takes on Dating

(51:26) The Core of the Decision: Ask "What Feels Right"

(55:05) Protecting Your Relationship

(59:19) The Dream: An Integrated Life

(1:03:14) Wrap

Aike Ho (Partner, ACME Capital) and Camilla Hermann (entrepreneur) discuss "relationship yoga" - viewing intimate relationships as paths to growth through how we trigger each other. They explore how relationship patterns reveal unresolved aspects of ourselves and why finding a partner who's willing to evolve together matters more than matching a checklist of ideal traits.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero 

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

FOLLOW ON X:

Aike - @aikeho

Camilla - @CamillaFHermann

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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LINKS

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro and Preview

(01:33) What is Relationship Yoga?

(02:22) Relationship as a Canvas for Wholeness

(04:54) Triggers and the Opportunity for Healing

(08:40) Observing and Processing Triggers

(09:38) The Role of Past Experiences

(10:51) Holding Space & Interlocking Patterns

(11:32) Using the Enneagram

(12:56) Example of Reactivity and Softness

(14:00) Reparenting & the Little Ones

(15:39) Interlocking Triggers & Internal Family Systems (IFS)

(16:39) Working with Internal Parts

(20:07) Free Will & Running Patterns

(21:00) Growth, Ego Death & Commitment in Relationships

(23:11) Seeing With Fresh Eyes

(23:16) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(24:59) The Art of Loving & Unconditional Acceptance

(28:30) Reflections on Being Single

(34:50) Challenges & Bouncing Back

(39:44) Patterns Want to be Liberated

(42:34) Causes of Struggle in Relationships

(55:57) Tension of Triggers and Attraction

(1:00:04) Advice For Making It Fantastic

(1:02:04) Connection: Spark, Attraction, Intimacy

(1:05:23) Wrap