This week, Erik sits down with Joe Hudson and Tara Howley, the extraordinary couple behind Art of Accomplishment, whose coaching has helped CEOs like Sam Altman. They share their journey from a toxic relationship to a deeply connected partnership, offering personal stories, practical strategies, and insights on how self-growth, therapy, and commitment to transformation can foster resilient, loving relationships.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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LINK/S:

Art of Accomplishment: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/
Joe and Esme — The Teenage Years: https://youtu.be/Eg70lbiElrI?si=bK-8FB-bzYh6HqL1

How to Be a Parent (Without Messing Everything Up) | Joe Hudson and Nathan Baschez: https://www.artofaccomplishment.com/podcast/how-to-be-a-parent-without-messing-everything-up-joe-hudson-and-nathan-baschez

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FOLLOW ON X:

Joe - @FU_joehudson

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

• 00:00:00 Preview and Intro
• 00:01:48 Disclosure
• 00:02:54 Welcome Joe and Tara
• 00:03:01 How Joe and Tara Met
• 00:13:03 Early Challenges and Growth
• 00:14:11 The Role of Self-Development
• 00:16:39 Navigating Relationship Dynamics
• 00:17:14 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:18:49 Transformation and Trust
• 00:27:10 Marriage Requirements and Challenges
• 00:28:27 Evaluating a Life Partner
• 00:30:27 Trade-offs and Compromises in Marriage
• 00:35:57 The Importance of Being Seen
• 00:43:11 Triggers and Personal Growth
• 00:44:53 Grieving and Moving On
• 00:46:55 Choosing the Right Partner
• 00:53:54 Life Changes and Marriage
• 00:55:18 Wrap

In this episode, Erik sits down with Harley Finkelstein and Lindsay Taub, partners of 15 years. Harley, Shopify's president, and Lindsay, a psychotherapist and entrepreneur, discuss their speed dating origin story, balancing radical acceptance with growth, and redefining work-life balance while raising two daughters together when your job is all-consuming.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/ph

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FOLLOW ON X:

Harley - @harleyf

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

• 00:00:00 Preview and Intro
• 00:01:39 Disclosure
• 00:02:45 The Speed Dating Origin Story
• 00:04:47 Early Relationship Challenges
• 00:07:27 Deciding to Move In Together
• 00:10:25 True Partnerships and Taking Chances
• 00:13:26 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:15:07 Building Success Together
• 00:17:55 Relationships Are Constantly Evolving
• 00:19:24 Relationship Role Models and Date Nights
• 00:23:09 The Value of Couples Therapy
• 00:24:45 Finding a Partner: What Doesn't Work
• 00:26:28 The Importance of Sharing Life Goals
• 00:29:09 Intentionality: "How You Do Anything Is How You Do Everything"
• 00:34:16 Raising Kids and Money
• 00:39:00 Teaching Gratitude and Philanthropy
• 00:43:21 Parenting by Example
• 00:48:25 The Key to Relationship Longevity
• 00:52:00 Incorporating Work and Life
• 00:54:37 Accepting Your Partner While Encouraging Growth
• 00:58:27 Wrap

Today on Modern Relationships Erik Torenberg is joined by Jared Fliesler, a former executive at Google, Square, and Scribd turned founder coach, discusses how to identify core values in partners, distinguish between compromise and "horse trading," and determine when someone is "good enough." He shares insights on building meaningful connections, his co-living experiments, and navigating long-distance relationships.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

LINKS | BOOKS RECOMMENDED:

The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership by Jim Dethmer, Diana Champan, etc: https://conscious.is/15-commitments

Book: https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable-ebook/dp/B00R3MHWUE

Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine: https://www.amazon.com/Positive-Intelligence-Individuals-Achieve-Potential/dp/1608322785

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FOLLOW ON X:

Jared -@JaredSF

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

• 00:00:00 Intro
• 00:01:30 How to Know When Someone is "Good Enough"
• 00:04:20 Core Values vs. Surface Compatibility
• 00:07:02 Evolution of Relationship Priorities
• 00:14:06 Embracing Past Relationship Struggles
• 00:15:48 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:18:31 Tools for Aligning on What Really Matters
• 00:24:35 Values Evolution: From San Francisco to Austin
• 00:30:45 Living in Community: Beyond Roommates
• 00:39:01 House Values and Shared Agreements
• 00:41:17 When to Call It Quits in a Relationship
• 00:45:22 Compromise vs. Horse Trading
• 00:50:27 Communication Frameworks for Deeper Connection
• 00:57:30 Navigating Age Gaps and Family Planning
• 01:01:51 Making Long-Distance Relationships Work
• 01:11:00 The Paradox of Choice in Modern Dating
• 01:20:45 Dating Apps and Modern Gay Relationships
• 01:25:34 Polyamory: Complexity and Connection
• 01:27:38 Wrap

Today on Modern Relationships Erik Torenberg talks to Ann Pierce, a former startup founder who became obsessed with the mission of solving interpersonal conflict. Ann unpacks why conflict isn't inherently negative but actually builds trust when handled correctly. She covers why invalidation is the most common threat most of us encounter, how we misunderstand each other through projection, and how to break the cycles of conflict.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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LINKS:

Ann Pierce Website: https://www.annpierce.com/

Ann Pierce - Understanding Interpersonal Conflict: https://substack.com/home/post/p-153042013?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Love Symposium: https://symposium.love/

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FOLLOW ON X:

Ann - @itsannpierce

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

• 00:00:00 Intro and Preview
• 00:01:56 Ann's Background and Research Journey
• 00:04:01 The Compatibility Question
• 00:06:00 Understanding Healthy Conflict
• 00:08:00 Personality Typologies and Wounds
• 00:12:27 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:14:04 The Nature of Threat Sensitivity
• 00:17:07 Breaking Conflict Cycles
• 00:20:16 Moving Beyond Binary Thinking
• 00:23:02 How Emotions Function
• 00:28:33 Emotional Regulation Tools
• 00:33:44 Misinterpreting Each Other
• 00:39:22 Language and Misunderstandings
• 00:44:35 Overcoming Threat Sensitivity
• 00:54:31 Building Self-Worth and Self-Esteem
• 00:55:21 Critiques of Couples Therapy
• 00:59:24 Practical Steps for Self-Improvement
• 01:01:29 Training and Practice for Better Relationships
• 01:04:36 The Love Symposium and Future Work
• 01:05:24 Wrap

Dating coach and matchmaking expert Blaine Anderson discusses the psychology behind successful dating for men in today's complex landscape. The conversation explores why instant "sparks" are often misleading indicators of relationship potential, with Anderson revealing how chemistry can develop over time rather than appearing at first sight. She explains why many men find themselves trapped in the friendzone and offers counterintuitive strategies for escaping it—including the critical step of genuinely moving on.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

LINKS:

Dating by Blaine: https://clients.datingbyblaine.com/hi

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FOLLOW ON X:

Blaine - @datingbyblaine

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

• 00:00:00 Intro and Preview
• 00:02:26 Being a Woman Dating Coach for Men
• 00:03:45 Why Focus on Coaching Men
• 00:04:41 "Serial Killer Vibes" in Dating Profiles
• 00:05:08 Core Dating Advice Philosophy
• 00:07:13 What Dating Coaching Looks Like
• 00:08:33 Blaine's Dating Courses Overview
• 00:10:21 Common Client Types and Their Challenges
• 00:12:04 Matchmaking Process and Mindsets
• 00:13:59 Questioning Dating Criteria
• 00:16:22 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:17:15 Age Preferences and Dating Flexibility
• 00:19:09 Career vs. Traditional Roles in Relationships
• 00:21:00 How Matchmaking Works
• 00:23:41 How Matchmakers Find Potential Partners
• 00:24:45 Marketing vs. Product in Dating
• 00:26:26 Post-Breakup Dating Advice
• 00:27:52 Evaluating Potential Relationships
• 00:29:17 The Myth of "Instant Chemistry"
• 00:30:19 Escaping the Friend Zone
• 00:32:21 Advice for Men Who "Simp" Too Hard
• 00:33:00 Where Coaching Ends and Therapy Begins
• 00:34:46 Women's Dating Coaching
• 00:36:34 The Future of Dating
• 00:38:31 The Stigma of Dating Coaching
• 00:40:43 Dating Apps vs. Self-Development
• 00:41:55 Dating Rules: When to Have Sex
• 00:44:24 Transition to Long-Term Relationships
• 00:46:28 Blaine's Personal Dating Evolution
• 00:49:00 Matchmaking Confidence and Success Metrics
• 00:51:42 Blind Dates vs. Pre-qualification
• 00:52:39 How Matchmaking Services Are Structured
• 00:53:24 Wrap

Best-selling author, Air Force veteran, and psychologist Rob K. Henderson joins Erik Torenberg to explore the complex dynamics and evolutionary psychology in modern dating.

The conversation examines how evolutionary psychology explains attraction patterns, particularly women's occasional interest in men with dark triad personality traits. Henderson unpacks the phenomenon through the lens of the Luigi Mangione case, discussing how violence and aggression can paradoxically enhance male appeal due to evolutionary adaptations.

They explore dark triad attraction, pickup artist culture, partner selection research, and practical advice for men navigating relationships in the age of dating apps and challenging social dynamics.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

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SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

LINKS:

Rob’s Newsletter: https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Rob-Henderson/177690581

Rob’s Best-selling book Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class:

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Troubled/Rob-Henderson/9781982168544

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FOLLOW ON X:

Rob - @robkhenderson

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

• 00:00:00 Intro and Preview
• 00:01:41 Evolutionary psychology in relationships
• 00:04:17 Dark triad attraction case study: Luigi Mangione
• 00:10:56 Why women respond to violent men
• 00:14:04 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:15:54 Pickup artist culture evolution
• 00:20:40 Reconciling evolutionary psychology with being a good person
• 00:24:14 Partner selection research findings
• 00:29:49 Dark triad assortative mating patterns
• 00:31:13 High-leverage ways men can improve dating value
• 00:37:44 Age gap relationships
• 00:42:15 Black pill ideology and incel communities
• 00:49:41 Jordan Peterson vs. Andrew Tate as male influences
• 00:55:09 Vulnerability's role in male attraction
• 00:57:44 Closing thoughts on modern dating challenges
• 01:01:18 Wrap

Carl Narcisse, a partner on the talent team at Andreessen Horowitz, and Whitnie Narcisse, formerly an operating partner at First Round Capital who just launched a matchmaking company, talk to Erik Torenberg about their relationship.

The couple discuss their decade-long marriage that began at a baseball game, balancing tech careers with raising three children, and applying "people ops" principles to their partnership—like maintaining a #relationshipgoals spreadsheet to track their goals. They share insights on navigating cultural differences, dating 360s, and why relationships require both spiritual alignment and a growth mindset.

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

LINKS:

Whitnie’s website: Whitnie.com

a16z.com: https://a16z.com/

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FOLLOW ON X:

Carl - @cnarcisse

Whitnie - @WhitnieLow

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Intro

(01:34) How Whitnie and Carl Met

(03:49) Their Dating Journeys Before Meeting

(07:22) Recognizing the Right Partner

(09:57) Early Relationship Challenges

(14:00) Cultural Differences

(15:50) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(17:25) Handling Temperament Differences

(19:00) Balancing Energy Levels

(21:28) Wanting a Partner Who Leads

(23:40) Whitnie’s Evolution from Avoidant to Secure

(27:09) Applying People Ops to Marriage

(31:47) Building a Support System

(33:52) Relationship Goals and Communication

(38:26) Whitnie’s Dating Concierge Business

(44:23) The Value of 360 Reviews in Dating

(47:04) Finding the Right Partner vs. The "Perfect" Match

(53:34) Dating Process Advice

(56:04) Marriage and Commitment

(1:00:18) Navigating Challenges in Marriage

(1:02:09) Parallels Between Recruiting and Matchmaking

(1:04:30) Wrap

• 00:00:00 Intro
• 00:01:34 How Whitnie and Carl Met
• 00:03:49 Their Dating Journeys Before Meeting
• 00:07:22 Recognizing the Right Partner
• 00:09:57 Early Relationship Challenges
• 00:14:00 Cultural Differences
• 00:15:50 Sponsor: Relationship Hero
• 00:17:25 Handling Temperament Differences
• 00:19:00 Balancing Energy Levels
• 00:21:28 Wanting a Partner Who Leads
• 00:23:40 Whitnie's Evolution from Avoidant to Secure
• 00:27:09 Applying People Ops to Marriage
• 00:31:47 Building a Support System
• 00:33:52 Relationship Goals and Communication
• 00:38:26 Whitnie's Dating Concierge Business
• 00:44:23 The Value of 360 Reviews in Dating
• 00:47:04 Finding the Right Partner vs. The "Perfect" Match
• 00:53:34 Dating Process Advice
• 00:56:04 Marriage and Commitment
• 01:00:18 Navigating Challenges in Marriage
• 01:02:09 Parallels Between Recruiting and Matchmaking
• 01:04:30 Wrap

OpenAI Chief Product Officer Kevin Weil and Scribble Ventures' Founder & Partner Elizabeth Weil share how they've navigated demanding tech careers over 20 years while raising three children—from their whirlwind marathon meetup to building parallel paths in Silicon Valley.

They discuss how they've navigated their career decisions while raising three children, why they believe in letting kids develop natural resilience, and their theory that "life's too short not to be with someone who brings out all the good things."

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

--

LINKS:

Scribble Ventures: https://www.scribble.vc/

OpenAI: https://openai.com/

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FOLLOW ON X:

Kevin - @kevinweil

Elizabeth - @elizabeth

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) Preview and Intro

(02:04) Meeting Story: Marathon Connection

(05:33) Moving Fast: From Dating to Engagement

(08:02) Partner Expectations: Finding Each Other

(10:38) Life's Too Short: Relationship Philosophy

(11:38) Relationship Chapters: Pre and Post Kids

(13:00) Career and Motherhood Balance

(16:31) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(18:05) Elizabeth's Work Philosophy

(21:00) Kevin's Career Journey

(23:15) Growing Up Together in Tech

(26:21) Division of Labor & Parenting

(30:37) Delegation and Help at Home

(34:53) Parenting Philosophy: Raising Grounded Kids

(37:25) Safety vs. Independence

(40:05) Approach to Academic Achievement

(42:38) Education in an AI World

(46:09) Core Values for Children

(48:47) Maintaining Marriage After Kids

(50:55) Couples They Admire

(53:05) Balancing Everything: Lowering the Bar

(54:45) Final Thoughts: In It Together

(56:14) Wrap

Curious Humans podcast host Jonny Miller and creative coach Kelly Wilde Miller sit down with Erik Torenberg and share their framework for "shortening the half-life of reactivity" of conflicts, their sacred Sunday check-in practice, and why they view marriage as "an arena for surfacing our own stuff."

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

FOLLOW ON X:

Jonny - @jonnym1ller

Kelly - @kellycwilde

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(01:07) Intro

(01:50) Finding Your Partner

(04:24) Transitioning from Friendship to Relationship

(07:06) Engagement Story

(14:13) Working Through Relationship Challenges

(18:36) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(20:11) Marriage as an Arena for Growth

(26:22) Conflict Resolution Techniques

(30:49) Communication Frameworks

(45:18) Nervous System Regulation

(52:44) Sunday Partnership Check-ins

(1:00:15) Children and Community

(1:07:30) Thoughts on Polyamory

(1:10:05) Final Reflections

(1:14:00) Closing

Philosophers Agnes Callard and Arnold Brooks bring their intellectual rigor to marriage and relationships. They sit down with Erik Torenberg to discuss their relationship's beginnings (when Agnes was Arnold's professor), their Platonic versus Aristotelian disagreements about whether marriage is something to transcend or achieve, and why relationships must "escape their beginnings" to thrive. Agnes explains why "marriage is a preparation for divorce," while Arnold argues the healthiest foundation for partnership isn't reciprocal support but simply appreciating how your partner lives—what he calls "bearing witness.".

Modern Relationships is a podcast from Turpentine. Learn more: www.turpentine.co

--

SPONSOR: Relationship Hero

It’s an open secret in Silicon Valley that people are using relationship coaches. Sign up for 1-on-1 relationship coaching (from anywhere) at RelationshipHero.com/modern. Get $50 off your first session.

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RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE:

* New Yorker article on Agnes and Arnold, by Rachel Aviv: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/13/agnes-callard-profile-marriage-philosophy

* Arnold Brooks: http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/arnold-brooks

* Pre-order Agnes Callard's new book Open Socrates: https://wwnorton.com/books/open-socrates

* Agnes Callard on Upstream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JotaCsaG3Y

FOLLOW ON X:

Agnes - @agnescallard

Erik - @eriktorenberg

Turpentine - @turpentinemedia

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TIMESTAMPS:

(01:49) Intro

(02:08) Agnes' and Arnold's relationship background

(08:13) Marriage and philosophy connection

(16:38) Sponsor: Relationship Hero

(18:13) Discussion about divorce

(26:37) Relationships haunted by their beginnings

(30:18) Maintaining friendship with an ex-partner

(34:00) Advice on choosing a partner

(43:34) Conflict about ambition and contentment

(49:35) Arnold's advice to overthink marriage together

(59:42) Parenting philosophy and making children interesting

(1:04:12) Reflections

(1:08:17) Wrap