This is my second episode with Adam Cramer, CEO of the Outdoor Alliance, a coalition of ten national organizations representing the human-powered outdoor community—mountain biking, backcountry skiing, kayaking, climbing, trail running, and more. The Outdoor Alliance works to protect public lands and the places these communities love, getting deeply involved in conservation policy and empowering people to take action on behalf of the landscapes that matter to them. The last year has been a relentless one for public lands, with threats coming from every direction, and Adam and his team have been in the thick of it.

Normally my episodes are "evergreen," but given everything happening right now, I wanted to bring Adam back to give us an update on the current threats—as well as some genuine bright spots. This is such a moving target with so many moving pieces that it can be really hard to keep up with everything and, most importantly, to know how to stop talking and take action. So I brought Adam in to help us make sense of it all and give us some instruction on how we can go on the offense to keep public lands public.

We cover a lot of ground: the public lands sell-off that arose out of last summer's reconciliation bill and the massive, cross-partisan public blowback that killed it; the fight over the Roadless Rule; the rescinding of the BLM's Public Lands Rule; proposed changes to travel management and motorized vehicle rules; and the reorganization happening inside the land management agencies. But it's not all grim—Adam walks us through the real reasons for hope, including bipartisan efforts like the Public Lands in Public Hands Act, the EXPLORE Act, and the Legacy Restoration Fund, which is moving through Congress right now and is one of the most important places listeners can weigh in today.

We also get into Adam's pragmatic, calm approach to all of this—why he refuses to be hysterical even when the stakes are high, what he's learned about strategy and compassion across the table, and how everyday people with jobs and families can stay informed and actually take action without drowning in the noise. He closes with some great book recommendations and a reminder to embrace and bask in the joy of place.

And just for some context, we recorded this on June 22, 2026. I hope you enjoy it and learn as much as I did. And most importantly, I hope you'll TAKE ACTION!

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• Adam Cramer
• Outdoor Alliance (Scroll down on the home page to sign up for their email list.)
• Adam's first M&P episode
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/public-lands-update/

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Adam Cramer and highlighting the Well Done Foundation
• 6:05 - Outdoor Alliance reminder
• 10:02 - One Big Beautiful Bill post-mortem
• 14:18 - The Roadless Rule
• 17:47 - What's the point of rescission?
• 19:51 - Following the herd
• 20:01 - Deferred maintenance
• 22:47 - Taking action: Roadless Rule
• 25:24 - Forest Service moves West
• 31:18 - A plethora of land types
• 33:34 - Just trying to protect the land
• 35:29 - BLM Public Lands Rule
• 39:36 - Swings
• 43:06 - Staying calm (alert: a jiu jitsu reference)
• 49:42 - Legacy Restoration Fund
• 56:08 - How to stay informed
• 58:54 - Motorized use
• 1:04:30 - Book recs
• 1:05:54 - Parting words

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In this solo episode, I share five books that fundamentally shaped my understanding of conservation, public lands, water, ranching, and the American West. These are the books that helped transform me from a ranch broker with a growing curiosity about conservation into someone who eventually devoted much of his career – and this podcast – to exploring the people and ideas shaping the landscapes of the West.

Along the way, I discuss Theodore Roosevelt, wildfire policy, regenerative grazing, Western water, and the history of conservation, while highlighting conversations from the Mountain & Prairie archive that connect to each book. Whether you're new to these topics or looking to deepen your understanding on anything from water to ranching to history, these books provide an excellent foundation. Enjoy!!

THE BOOKS:

• Losing Eden: An Environmental History of the American West by Sarah Dant
• The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire That Saved America by Timothy Egan
• For the Love of Land: Global Case Studies of Grazing in Nature's Image by Jim Howell
• Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West by Heather Hansman
• The Wilderness Warrior: Theodore Roosevelt and the Crusade for America by Douglas Brinkley

THE RELATED EPISODES:

• Sara Dant - First and Second
• Rob Addington
• Good Fire, Bad Fire
• Jim Howell - First and Second
• Heather Hansman - First and Second
• Douglas Brinkley

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 00:00 – Introduction & why these books matter
• 03:05 – Losing Eden by Sarah Dant
• 09:25 – The Big Burn by Timothy Egan
• 16:05 – For the Love of Land by Jim Howell
• 23:35 – Downriver by Heather Hansman
• 29:05 – The Wilderness Warrior by Douglas Brinkley
• 35:25 – Final thoughts & closing remarks

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Dillon Osleger wears a lot of hats: geologist, professional mountain biker for Specialized, trail builder, public lands policy analyst and advocate, and now first-time author. His debut book, "Trail Work: Restoring the Paths and Stories of America's Public Lands," blends science, history, and personal reflection into a look at our relationship with the places we love. It's already earned praise from the likes of Bill McKibben, Robert Moor, and former M&P guest Rick Ridgeway. And for whatever it's worth, I loved it as well. I've read a ton of books on public lands, and this one filled in many of the gaps in my knowledge on this super-important and timely issue.

Raised by two geologists who moved the family from Riverside to Austin to Northern California, Dillon grew up idolizing mountain legends like Rick Ridgeway and Jeremy Jones, and he wanted nothing more than to spend his life outside. He was, by his own account, a poor student—right up until a NOLS course at fifteen showed him he could learn through the things he was passionate about. That realization helped transform him from a 2.9-GPA high school student all the way to a scientist who holds a master's in Earth Science, with a lot of biking, skiing, surfing, and fishing along the way.

We recorded this at Mountainfilm in Telluride, the morning after Dillon shared a stage with literary heroes like Kevin Fedarko. We cover his mountain upbringing, how mountain biking became his way of finding clarity, why he thinks the traditional classroom can be challenging for many curious and energetic kids, and the deep connections between public lands and the rural communities around them. We also get into the writers who shaped him—John McPhee, Wendell Berry, James Rebanks—and his belief that the world is far more purple than the red-and-blue map suggests. We also talk a lot about the process of writing his book and some of the biggest lessons learned from tackling such an ambitious project. More than anything, this is a conversation about loving a place enough to do the work for it.

I loved this one. Enjoy!

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• Dillon Osleger
• Trail Work: Restoring the Paths and Stories of America's Public Lands
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/dillon-osleger

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Dillon Osleger and highlighting TNC Colorado
• 6:12 - A nervous morning
• 8:39 - How Dillon got people interested in his book
• 11:12 - Growing up moving around
• 14:34 - Path to college
• 16:28 - Finding the right academia
• 19:16 - Mountain biking
• 23:30 - The question Dillon was trying to answer
• 28:12 - An overview of maps
• 34:04 - The Thomas Fire
• 37:12 - Public lands threats
• 42:30 - Real names
• 47:39 - Finding your why
• 51:13 - Bringing in jujitsu
• 53:16 - How writing the book changed Dillon
• 56:38 - The response to the book
• 1:02:29 - Book recs
• 1:09:13 - A purple world

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My longtime partners and collaborators at The Nature Conservancy recently launched a great podcast series called "On the Move," hosted by TNC storyteller Leah Palmer. It's all about wild animals, their migrations, and the people working to keep those journeys wild and free. If you're a longtime Mountain & Prairie listener, then many of these people, places, and conservation issues will be familiar to you. In fact, a few of the experts you'll hear over the course of the full series are past M&P guests, including Sammy Matsaw Jr., Kelsey Molloy, and Nancy Fishbein.

So I'm excited to share one of my favorite episodes today: Episode 4, "Distance Champions." This episode is about creatures of the sky—sandhill cranes, Greater Sage-Grouse, Wilson's phalaropes—and it digs into why these birds migrate, how new tracking tech reveals where they actually go, and what stands in their way. You'll also hear from Ted Floyd of the American Birding Association, a good friend of TNC here in Colorado.

Big thanks to The Nature Conservancy for creating such an interesting and engaging podcast series. If you enjoy it, go subscribe to "On the Move" and listen to the whole series.

And as always, thanks to everyone who supports the Mountain & Prairie via Patreon, and the additional podcast support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation.

Here's Leah Palmer and "Distance Champions." Enjoy!!

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• ON THE MOVE podcast
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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This is a live episode recorded at the 2026 Great Plains Stakeholder Workshop, hosted by the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. The workshop brought together many of the country's leading grasslands conservationists, scientists, funders, and policy experts to tackle a huge question: what would it look like to create a bold, practical, long-term plan for conserving North America's grasslands over the next 30 years?

My guests are two people helping to lead that effort: Dr. Holly Bamford, Chief Conservation Officer at the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation (known as NFWF for short), and Marshall Johnson, Chief Conservation Officer for the National Audubon Society. Both have spent years working at the intersection of science, conservation, agriculture, and partnership-building, and both bring a realistic but hopeful perspective to the future of the Great Plains.

In this conversation, we dig into the current state of the Great Plains and grasslands conservation more broadly– from grassland loss and declining bird populations to the creative partnerships helping ranchers, nonprofits, businesses, and government agencies work together toward solutions. We discuss the importance of voluntary conservation, the complicated economics facing ranching communities, the role of programs like the Farm Bill, and why grass-based agriculture and healthy wildlife habitat are far more interconnected than many people realize. Holly and Marshall also share stories from their own lives that explain how they each became so deeply connected to these landscapes– from prairie chicken blinds in Minnesota to the wide-open grasslands of the American West.

More than anything, this conversation is about long-term thinking. What does it look like to create a 30-year vision for one of the most ecologically important and underappreciated landscapes in North America? What gives these conservation leaders hope? And what keeps them up at night? There's a lot of realism in this discussion, but there's also a surprising amount of optimism, practicality, and momentum. I learned a ton from this conversation, and I think you will too. Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to the organizations, initiatives, and resources we discuss throughout the episode.

Thank you again to the amazing team at the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation for inviting me to moderate this discussion.

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• National Fish and Wildlife Foundation
• National Audubon Society
• Dr. Holly Bamford
• Marshall Johnson
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/great-plains

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing a live convo
• 3:25 - Looking behind instead of ahead
• 5:40 - Why grasslands
• 6:57 - The state of grasslands today
• 10:22 - The meadowlark
• 12:47 - Rancher relationships
• 22:41 - Money is the key
• 25:20 - Farm Bill feelings
• 29:15 - Prairie potholes
• 36:20 - Voluntary conservation easements
• 39:24 - Accounting for change
• 43:41 - Data collection
• 48:40 - The next 30 years

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Hillary Rosner is an award-winning journalist and author whose work combines science, storytelling, and the natural world. She's been writing about environmental issues for decades, with bylines in publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, and National Geographic. Her new book, "Roam: Wild Animals and the Race to Repair Our Fractured World," explores one of the most urgent—and often overlooked—challenges in conservation: the loss of connectivity across the landscape, and what that means for the movement and survival of wildlife.

Like so many fascinating people, Hillary's path into this work wasn't a straight line. She grew up in New York City, far from the wide-open spaces she now writes about, but spent formative summers in the Adirondacks and Berkshires that quietly shaped her connection to nature. After getting her start in fast-paced daily journalism at places like the New York Post and The Village Voice, she realized she wanted something deeper—slower, more immersive storytelling. That shift eventually led her west to Boulder, where she pursued environmental studies and built a career focused on long-form environmental journalism.

In this conversation, Hillary and I dig into the big ideas behind "Roam," including why movement is so essential to life on Earth and how human infrastructure—from highways to fences—has fractured the natural world. We talk about surprising barriers to wildlife, like roads that even birds won't cross, and explore solutions ranging from wildlife corridors to collaborative conservation efforts with local communities. We also get into the realities of modern journalism, the importance of "bearing witness" in difficult times, and why curiosity, empathy, and action are still the most powerful tools we have for building a more connected and hopeful future.

I loved the book, and I loved this conversation. Hope you enjoy both as much as I did!

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• Hillary Rosner
• Roam: Wild Animals and the Race to Repair Our Fractured World
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/hillary-rosner

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Hillary Rosner and highlighting TNC Colorado
• 6:09 - Book congrats and growing up in NYC
• 9:03 - The heading West bug
• 11:20 - More long-form journalism
• 13:36 - Making money in journalism
• 16:41 - Ted Scripps fellowship
• 19:01 - Patagonia publishing
• 21:20 - Roads are only good for people
• 28:20 - Why this should matter to you
• 35:23- SLOSS
• 38:39 - Doing everything you can
• 40:52 - Fence removal project
• 43:50 - Virtual fencing
• 44:57 - Author's note
• 49:47 - Poignant
• 53:16 - Out of the box thinkers
• 58:15 - Book recs
• 1:00:36 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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Miriam Horn is an award-winning journalist and author whose work lives at the intersection of conservation, food production, and the people working—often quietly and pragmatically—to hold those worlds together. Many listeners will recognize her from her excellent book "Rancher, Farmer, Fisherman," a title that's come up repeatedly on this podcast for its nuanced look at how working lands and conservation can coexist. But her new book, "Homesick for a World Unknown: The Life of George B. Schaller," zooms out to tell the story of a man whose influence touches nearly every corner of modern wildlife biology.

If you're like I was before reading this book, you may not fully appreciate the importance of George Schaller and his work—but it's hard to overstate his impact. If you're working in wildlife science today—whether studying elk in Wyoming or snow leopards in Central Asia—you're building on a foundation he helped create. He helped shift wildlife biology away from specimen collection and distant population management toward long-term, immersive observation rooted in patience and deep respect for animals in their natural environments. And beyond his own research, his legacy lives on through the countless scientists he mentored around the world, many of whom went on to lead conservation efforts in their home countries.

In this conversation, Miriam and I explore Schaller's remarkable life and the long arc of his influence—from his early days in Alaska to his groundbreaking work with gorillas, big cats, and high-altitude species across the globe. We talk about the tension between conservation and human needs, the role of humility and local knowledge in effective wildlife protection, and what Miriam learned after nearly a decade spent researching and writing this biography. It's a wide-ranging conversation about one man's life, but also about the bigger question of how humans can live responsibly within the natural world.

"Homesick for a World Unknown" is available at your favorite bookseller now. I hope you enjoy this conversation and the book!

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• Miriam Horn
• Homesick for a World Unknown: The Life of George B. Schaller
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/miriam-horn

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Miriam Horn and highlighting the Well Done Foundation
• 6:17 - Feedback from George
• 10:00 - Beginning a decade of work
• 15:52 - Getting George to open up
• 19:52 - A bit of George's biography
• 24:39 - Becoming a charismatic megafauna
• 26:53 - Putting the gun down
• 31:03 - Humility and hard-headedness
• 33:29 - Seeking the full picture
• 36:57 - Husband and wife team
• 41:00 - Not protective parents
• 47:30 - George and Kay to the modern-day
• 52:39 - How George changed Miriam
• 59:11 - The writers Miriam admires
• 1:04:54 - Words of wisdom

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Meriwether Hardie has built a life around long, ambitious horseback journeys through remote landscapes, and she uses those adventures as a way to better understand land, food, and the people who depend on both. In her early twenties, she rode for a year through South America, and this past summer, she spent five months traveling solo across the American West with two horses and a dog. Along the way, she's not just covering ground, she's asking questions, listening closely, and connecting with agricultural producers and rural communities. That combination of adventure, inquiry, and agriculture is also at the core of her professional work, which has spanned everything from small-scale producers to global supply chains, including time with Rainforest Alliance, all focused on building more resilient, equitable food systems.

She grew up in Vermont, splitting time between her parents' farms—one centered around horses, the other around commercial beekeeping—which gave her both independence and a deep love of working landscapes. As a teenager, she attended a NOLS course in the Wind River Range, which cemented her love for wild places and outdoor education. That foundation eventually led her west to Colorado College, where she studied environmental science and journalism. After college, she received a competitive environmental journalism fellowship that funded her first major horseback expedition through Argentina—an experience that helped define her path and solidified her belief that storytelling can be a powerful tool for understanding complex issues.

In this conversation, we talk about all of that, with a special focus on her most recent ride across the West—what it actually takes to pull off a trip like that, the risks and realities of traveling solo on horseback, and the incredible generosity she encountered along the way. We also talk about what she learned from the farmers and ranchers she met, from the challenges they face to the unexpected pockets of hope she discovered. This is a conversation about big, wild adventures, but it's also about the act of showing up, moving slowly through landscape, asking good questions, and listening to people who don't usually get heard.

Enjoy!

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• Meriwether Hardie
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/meriwether-hardie

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Meriwether Hardie and highlighting the Freeflow Institute
• 5:36 - Growing up between two Vermont farms
• 8:15 - Bee stings
• 9:42 - An old, free pony
• 13:25 - Being a different kind of kid
• 15:23 - Colorado College
• 18:12 - NOLS in the family
• 21:58 - The badge of honor that is being a NOLS instructor
• 25:36 - First horse trip
• 30:04 - Asking for help
• 32:34 - Post-Bill McKibben grant
• 34:34 - Meriwether's journey across South America
• 40:24 - How the journey changed her
• 43:22 - Her current adventure
• 47:40 - Burnout
• 49:08 - Injury and change
• 53:55 - Navigating vast landscapes
• 1:00:29 - The best of humanity
• 1:07:04 - Celebrating generational knowledge
• 1:08:38 - The book process
• 1:17:26 - Expectations vs. reality
• 1:22:05 - Book recs
• 1:28:00 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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Jazmine Ulloa is a national reporter who covers immigration for The New York Times and is the author of the new book "El Paso: Five Families and One Hundred Years of Blood, Migration, Race, and Memory." It's a sweeping, deeply researched look at one of the most overlooked regions in the American West. Born and raised in El Paso, Jazmine brings both a journalist's discipline and a personal connection to the story, weaving together archival research, oral histories, and her own family background to explore how this border community has shaped the broader story of the United States.

What makes Jazmine's work especially compelling is the path she took to get here. She started reporting as a teenager, crossing the border with her grandmother to interview families affected by violence… real, high-stakes journalism while she was still in high school. From there, she worked her way up through local papers across Texas, covering crime, courts, and immigration, eventually moving into national political reporting and earning her role at The New York Times. It's a career built the old-fashioned way: curiosity, extreme hard work, and a clear sense of purpose.

In this conversation, Jazmine and I focus on the long, layered history of El Paso and the surrounding borderlands—how people, cultures, and economies have moved through this region for generations, shaping the Southwest in ways that often go unrecognized. More than anything, this is a conversation about people and place. By following the lives of five families across generations, Jazmine brings a human lens to a complicated history, one that is rich with resilience, identity, and connection, and that adds real depth to our understanding of the American West.

This is a thoughtful conversation with a very smart, purpose-driven author that adds some much needed historical context to this current moment in American culture. I think you'll enjoy it and learn a lot.

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• Jazmine Ulloa
• El Paso: Five Families and One Hundred Years of Blood, Migration, Race, and Memory
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/jazmine-ulloa

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Jazmine Ulloa and highlighting Good News and book recs
• 5:47 - How Jazmine ended up in El Paso
• 12:34 - Pursuing journalism as a career
• 18:19 - Going to the border for the story
• 23:02 - Getting to the New York Times
• 27:09 - Jazmine's speciality
• 30:27 - Dealing with trauma
• 32:38 - Getting into Jazmine's book
• 36:01 - Fear of the unknown
• 36:55 - 2019 El Paso shooting
• 41:29 - Seeing history reflected in the present
• 46:56 - Leaning into the complexity
• 49:33 - Focusing on family
• 54:20 - Knowing her hometown better?
• 57:44 - Time management at its best
• 1:00:24 - Book recs
• 1:02:34 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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Pete McBride is a photographer, filmmaker, and author whose work has taken him all over the world, but at the center of it all is a river much closer to home: the Colorado River. He's been a frequent guest on this podcast over the years, and his work has consistently offered one of the most thoughtful and visually compelling perspectives on the landscapes and water systems that define the American West. His latest book, "Witness to Water: One Photographer's Mission to Defend the Colorado River," is a departure from his previous photo-driven projects—it's all words, and it brings together two decades of stories, observations, and hard-earned insight from time spent on and around rivers.

In this conversation, Pete and I talk about the Colorado River—where things stand today, what he's seeing across the basin, and why this moment feels especially urgent. We discuss drought, over-allocation, and the complicated, often frustrating realities of water management in the West. But we also zoom out, exploring how Pete's perspective has evolved over time—from adventure photographer chasing stories around the globe to someone deeply committed to telling one layered, long-term story about a single, essential river.

We also spend quite a bit of time on the more personal side of Pete's new book. He opens up about family, the influence of his parents, and a period of his life that didn't match the outward success people might assume. It's honest, vulnerable, and, like the best stories, deeply relatable. As always, there are plenty of wild experiences and hard-earned lessons woven throughout, but what stands out most is Pete's willingness to share the full picture—the wins, the struggles, and everything in between.

Pete is also a talented musician, and the song you heard at the beginning is him playing. And at the end of the episode, you can hear the full song. Be sure to check out the episodes for timestamps and links to everything we discuss, and be sure to grab a copy of "Witness to Water." Enjoy!

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• Pete McBride
• "Witness to Water" by Pete McBride
• Episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/pete-mcbride-4

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Pete McBride and highlighting TNC Colorado
• 5:43 - The "all words" book
• 8:51 - How Pete's dad ended up in Colorado
• 10:50 - Resisting the Colorado River
• 13:36 - Working in India
• 18:45 - Watching the water run out
• 22:51 - Len and Pete's horrific death march
• 27:09 - Combining the reservoirs
• 29:31 - The deadline
• 35:17 - How to get informed on the water conversations
• 39:28 - Adventurers of the Year
• 44:35 - Nobody knows what they're doing
• 49:57 - Not nervous
• 51:53 - Flying nerves
• 55:41 - The most scared Pete has ever been
• 59:24 - Djibouti
• 1:02:02 - Discussing judgment and wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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• Upcoming Events
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