George Hodgin is a former Navy SEAL turned entrepreneur who is revolutionizing the world of medical cannabis research. George is the founder and CEO of BRC - Biopharmaceutical Research Company, one of the only federally legal cannabis research organizations in the United States. His company is leading the charge in developing safe, regulated, and scientifically-backed cannabis-based therapeutics—offering alternatives to opioids and other pharmaceutical treatments.

This is George’s second time on the podcast—our first conversation was almost exactly five years ago, back when his company was in its early stages, the pandemic was just beginning, and he was navigating the uncharted waters of federal cannabis regulations. Since we last spoke, BRC has made huge strides—partnering with leading medical institutions, earning FDA orphan drug designation, and paving the way for legal, cannabis-based medications.

If you haven’t already, I highly recommend going back and listening to that first episode, where George shares the full story of his fascinating career trajectory—his time as a Navy SEAL, his MBA at Stanford, and his undergraduate experience as a Morehead-Cain Scholar at the University of North Carolina. That conversation is a great companion to this one and provides even more insight into his unique journey.

In this episode, George and I dive into the evolution of BRC, the shifting cultural and political landscape around cannabis, and what it’s like balancing an entrepreneurial mindset with the slow, methodical world of federal drug approval. We also talk leadership, risk assessment in business and combat, humility vs arrogance, and what it's been like to watch his wife, bestselling author and culinary powerhouse Caroline Chambers, build an incredible career of her own. Be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, plus links to resources, books, and more.

George is one of the most insightful, driven, and humble people I know, and I always learn a ton from our conversations. Whether you're interested in business, science, leadership, or just a great story of perseverance and innovation, this episode has something for you.

Hope you enjoy!

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• George Hodgin
• Biopharmaceutical Research Company
• George’s first M&P episode
• Caroline Chambers
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/george-hodgin-2/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 2:36 – Reconnecting with George
• 3:51 – George’s BRC elevator pitch
• 6:51 – City of Hope collaboration
• 10:36 – Choosing partnerships and plans
• 13:36 – What makes a successful idea
• 16:06 – Company mechanics
• 18:21 – Energy balance
• 22:06 – Cannabis in the name
• 23:51 – Cannabis sentiments culturally shifting
• 26:36 – But not legally
• 28:06 – Regulations and competition
• 32:21 – Different schedules of drugs
• 36:36 – Betting on the idea versus the team
• 41:21 – Risk framework
• 46:51 – When do you stop planning?
• 51:06 – Favorite failure
• 55:36 – Not seeing the forest for the trees
• 59:06 – Does cockiness play a role?
• 1:02:06 – George’s wife’s cooking journey
• 1:07:06 – General Mattis’ influence
• 1:08:51 – Book recs
• 1:11:06 – Parting words, asking Ed a question

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Ivan McClellan is a photographer, writer, and storyteller who’s shining a light on Black cowboy culture in a way that’s never been done before. When we first talked back in 2020, Ivan was in the early stages of immersing himself in this world—capturing rodeos, meeting cowboys, and telling stories that had largely been overlooked. Now, nearly five years later, he’s once again forging his own path by creating Eight Seconds Rodeo, an electrifying, high-stakes event that’s bringing some of the best cowboys and cowgirls in the country together to compete for serious prize money, all while celebrating a rich and important legacy.

In this episode, Ivan shares the inspiring story of how Eight Seconds Rodeo came to life—from a passion project sparked by tragedy to a must-see event that’s redefining the rodeo world. We dig into the challenges of launching something this big from scratch, the power of storytelling to shift culture, and what it means to build something bigger than yourself. Ivan also talks about his new photography book, his creative process, and how he stays grounded while juggling everything he’s got going on.

If you haven’t already, I’d encourage you to go back to our first podcast conversation, where we discuss Ivan’s early life and upbringing, as well as his journey into professional photography and the world of Black rodeo. It’s super inspiring to see how his career has grown and evolved over the last few years– and also to see how he’s continued to be such a humble, hard-working family man. 

Whether you’re a longtime rodeo fan or just love hearing stories about people chasing big, meaningful dreams, this conversation is for you.

As always, you can find links to Ivan’s work, Eight Seconds Rodeo, his book, and our first conversation in the episode notes. And if you’re near Portland or Philadelphia in 2025, do yourself a favor and check out one of his rodeos. You won’t regret it.

Thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ivan McClellan!

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• Eight Seconds
• Eight Seconds Rodeo
• Ivan on Instagram
• Ivan’s first appearance on M&P
• A long list of excellent press on Ivan and Eight Seconds
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/ivan-mcclellan-2/
• Support M&P on Patreon

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:20 - Checking in with Ivan
• 7:05 - Eight Seconds Rodeo beginnings
• 9:35 - Knowing Ouncie
• 14:35 - The first step and conquering doubt
• 16:05 - Choosing Portland
• 18:35 - Someone to run the rodeo
• 22:50 - Stories of the first rodeo
• 26:50 - Year two
• 29:05 - What’s in store for 2025
• 32:35 - Balancing helping others and being the face
• 38:05 - The driving force
• 39:20 - The story of Ivan’s photography book
• 46:35 - Is a written book in store?
• 48:20 - Wearing a cowboy hat
• 52:35 - For more info on Ivan

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Betsy Gaines Quammen is a Montana-based historian and writer whose work explores the history and myths of the American West and how those stories have endured and shaped life in the region today. Betsy joined me on the podcast several years ago to discuss her amazing book, American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, and Public Lands in the West, and since then, she’s published another must-read: True West: Myth and Mending on the Far Side of America. In True West, Betsy meets face-to-face with a wide range of folks here in the West– from militia members to hardcore environmentalists– and seeks to understand why they believe what they do. Combining these conversations with her deep understanding of history, Betsy is able to demonstrate the fascinating complexity and contradictions that define many of the people and issues in today’s West.

We recorded this conversation on stage at the 2024 Old Salt Festival, where Betsy was nice enough to join us for the three-day festival of music, food, and conversation. As you’ll hear me say in the episode, Betsy and her work have played a huge role in my never-ending quest to try and understand this region, and I consider her to be a great friend and mentor. But even if you don’t have any interest in the West’s history or modern-day conflicts, there are big lessons to be learned from Betsy’s approach to her work. She is committed to finding the humanity in everyone– even people she completely disagrees with. Rather than attack them and their ideas, she approaches them with genuine curiosity, really trying to understand what they believe and why. And even when no common ideological ground can be found, there is still mutual respect. And I think most people will agree that we need more of these types of respectful interactions these days.

In this conversation, we talk a bit about Betsy’s background and why she is so fascinated with understanding myths and the West. We talk about her commitment to having deep conversations with people across political and socio-economic spectrums, and she describes one of the unlikely friendships she built with a man whose views on politics, public lands, and the environment could not be further from her own. We discuss the importance of getting off the internet and having face-to-face conversations, how real estate development is changing the ecology and economics of the West, her thoughts on the future, and more. We also took questions from the audience, which was a lot of fun.

Again, I can’t thank Betsy enough for joining me onstage for this conversation, but more importantly, for the wisdom she has shared with me over the years. If you haven’t read True West, I encourage you to pick up a copy as soon as you can, and I’d also encourage you to listen to our first conversation, where Betsy talks a lot about her life and career journey. And tickets for the 2025 Old Salt Festival are on sale now, so if you’d like to experience conversations like this in person– plus music, food, Western makers, and more– follow the link in the episode notes to grab your tickets.

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• Betsy Gaines Quammen
• True West: Myth and Mending on the Far Side of America
• American Zion: Cliven Bundy, God, and Public Lands in the West
• Old Salt Festival
• Betsy's first M&P appearance
• Sign up for Ed’s Good News from the American West
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/betsy-gaines-quammen-2/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 4:15 - Introducing Betsy at Old Salt
• 7:45 - Why the West?
• 10:15 - Discussing myths
• 14:15 - Betsy talks across the aisle
• 17:30 - Betsy’s relationship with Lance
• 19:45 - Lance’s email
• 23:15 - Creating conversations outside the internet
• 26:00 - Real estate development in the West
• 30:00 - Covid as a catalyst
• 34:30 - Predicting the future
• 35:45 - Q&A
• 39:15 - Should we trust the government?
• 41:30 - Lance’s takeaways
• 43:30 - A ‘real’ Montanan
• 49:45 - Our energy future
• 53:00 - Parting thoughts

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Chris Pague is the Senior Conservation Ecologist at The Nature Conservancy, and he is deeply involved in so many of the topics we discuss here on the podcast– grasslands, bison, endangered species, landscape-scale conservation, and more. For many decades now, Chris has been working on the frontlines of TNC’s science-based conservation efforts, and during his tenure, he’s accumulated a mind-blowing amount of knowledge about everything from the tiniest prairie plants to the plains’ largest mammals. But what makes Chris so special is his ability to translate complex ecology into inspiring, impactful stories– stories that resonate with everyone from the most committed conservationists to people who are just beginning to learn about the West’s wild places.

Chris grew up in Virginia, and for as long as he can remember, he’s been obsessed with the outdoors, wild creatures, and all varieties of plants. He eventually moved West to take a job in Colorado with the Nature Conservancy, where he’s been an invaluable member of the team ever since. I personally credit Chris for helping me in my own journey to understand the importance of grasslands and connected landscapes across the Southern High Plains, thanks to a presentation Chris gave at an event I was attending over a decade ago. I know there are countless other folks just like me who credit Chris with helping them to better understand and appreciate pressing conservation issues— and more importantly, to take action. Between his on-the-ground ecology work and his gift of storytelling, it’s difficult to fully wrap my head around the scale of the positive impact Chris has had over his career.

So, I was long overdue in having Chris join me for a podcast conversation. We could’ve talked for many hours, but in this chat, we still managed to cover a lot, including: Chris’s upbringing in Virginia and some of our shared favorite Virginia landscapes; his decision to move to Colorado; the decades-long shift in thinking around grasslands conservation; the importance of storytelling to communicate critical science, TNC’s Southern High Plains initiative; optimism and the wisdom of Ted Lasso; partnerships and relationships; favorite books, and much more. Be sure to visit the episode webpage for a full list of topics discussed, links to everything, and a new short film that features Chris and some of the landscapes he works to protect.

A huge thanks to Chris for this wonderful conversation, but more importantly, thanks to Chris for his many decades of inspiring work. Enjoy.

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• Chris Pague
• TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative
• Short Film: Connecting the Big Wide Open
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/chris-pague/

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This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

During the last week of every month throughout 2025, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:45 - Introducing Chris
• 8:30 - Chris’s favorite Virginia spots
• 9:45 - Making the decision to work for TNC
• 12:45 - Grassland evolution
• 17:30 - Why are grasslands important?
• 21:15 - Science and storytelling
• 24:15 - 50 years of land conservation history
• 28:00 - TNC’s Southern High Plains Initiative
• 35:15 - Protecting land
• 42:30 - Keep or sell?
• 47:45 - Building relationships
• 52:45 - Ted Lasso and optimism
• 56:45 - Increase in partnerships
• 58:45 - What Chris is excited about
• 1:03:45 - Book recs
• 1:06:45 - Parting words

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Nicole Qualtieri is an outdoor writer and editor, a conservationist, and a committed outdoorswoman. Over the past decade, she’s worked with some of the most notable brands in the outdoor industry, including MeatEater, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, and GearJunkie, and she has bylines with many well-known outdoor publications, such as Outside, Modern Huntsman, and Backcountry Journal. But despite being plugged in with many of the best names in the outdoor business, she and a few creative friends decided to go out on a limb and start their own outdoor publication– one that focuses on substance over clickbait, depth and vulnerability over the silly quest for virality and search engine optimization.

The name of the project is The Westrn, and it combines the best parts of online writing and journalism with a printed, hold-it-in-your-hands newspaper that ships to subscribers four times per year. As you’ll hear Nicole describe, the topics covered by The Westrn’s include hunting, conservation, and a wide range of outdoor adventure. But the deeper point of it all is to build a tight-knit community of engaged outdoor enthusiasts of all stripes, who appreciate the value of nuanced writing, thinking, and publishing. As many legacy outdoor media brands have become controlled by private equity and now focus on scalability over creativity and quality, the role of people like Nicole and her partners at the Westrn are all the more important— they are taking a real risk to make the Westrn a reality, and I greatly admire their vision and commitment to action.

Nicole and I connected online– she was at her home in Anaconda, Montana and I was here in Colorado Springs– and we had an enlightening conversation filled with lots of laughs about her fascinating life, career, and the creation of The Westrn. We discussed her upbringing in what she describes as a high-control religious cult and how hunting and the outdoors were her way of working through some of that childhood trauma. We discussed her non-traditional career path, which included a stint as a stand-up comic, and how she worked her way into the outdoor industry. We discuss the importance of hard work, preparation, and grinding, and how self-confidence is generated from those activities. We discuss the current state of the outdoor media industry, the financial challenges of making it as a freelancer, her writing process, contentment vs happiness, favorite books, and of course, her goals for The Westrn.

Nicole was also kind enough to offer some discount codes for M&P listeners, so follow the appropriate links in the episode notes or on the website to get 20% off annual memberships to The Westrn and/or 20% off single issues of the print newspaper.

A huge thanks to Nicole for the conversation and thank you for listening. Enjoy!

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• Nicole Qualtieri
• The Westrn
• 20% Discount off the Annual Subscription
  • Link for M+P Listeners will auto-populate discount:  https://www.thewestrn.com/mtnprairie
• 20% Off Pre-Order Single Issues: 
  • Use link to use code: https://thewestrnstore.com/discount/MTNPRAIRIE?redirect=%2Fproducts%2Fthe-westrn-individual-issue
  • Or use code MTNPRAIRIE
• Ed’s Book Recommendations
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/nicole-qualtieri/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 4:30 - Nicole and Ed’s first convo (shared Roadhouse appreciation)
• 6:15 - Nicole’s background
• 8:15 - How writing’s been a part of Nicole’s life
• 13:15 - Getting out West
• 16:30 - College degrees
• 19:15 - On writing On Killing Animals
• 21:00 - The grind and the craft
• 28:00 - Taking the pain
• 30:15 - Outside’s rejection of On Killing Animals
• 34:45 - The corporatization of outdoor media
• 44:30 - The Westrn
• 54:30 - Taking a good idea and running with it
• 59:45 - Etymology of happy
• 1:02:30 - Nicole’s book recs
• 1:07:00 - Parting words

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Hal Herring is an award-winning outdoor journalist, fierce public lands advocate, and thoughtful, action-oriented conservationist. He’s also an accomplished podcaster and host of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers’ Podcast & Blast with Hal Herring. If you’re a longtime listener of Mountain & Prairie, you may remember my first episode with Hal back in December of 2019– pre-pandemic, when the world was a much different place. Like me, Hal was born and raised in the south, and also like me, his Southern accent has not faded. But he’s made Montana his home for many decades now and has established himself as one of the most respected voices in conservation here in the American West.

This episode was recorded live and on stage at the 2024 Old Salt Festival on the Mannix Family Ranch in Helmville, Montana. If you’re not familiar with Old Salt, it’s a three-day gathering in Montana’s Blackfoot Valley that combines live Americana music with artists like Sterling Drake and Summer Dean, wood-fired cooking with chefs including Eduardo Garcia, and a General Store featuring western makers such as Cate Havstad, Jillian Lukiwski, Christy Sing, and many more. The festival also includes a ton of on-stage conversations about land stewardship, conservation, history, literature, and more– and this is one of those conversations.

Most of you are probably already familiar with Hal, but if you’re not, you are in for a treat. Hal brings such energy, humor, and knowledge to everything he does, and he has helped me in my own personal journey to better understand this complex region known as the American West. In this conversation, we covered a lot, including: Hal’s journey from Alabama to Montana, his thoughts on the current state of family ranching and public lands, optimism vs pessimism, and who he admires in the conservation space. We also discuss his forthcoming book on public lands, an idea he is working on for a new podcast, and we take a number of questions from the audience.

I know you’ll learn a lot from this episode– I consider Hal a great teacher and leader, and it’s always an honor to spend time with him. Tickets for the 2025 Old Salt Festival are on sale now, so follow this link to learn more and secure your spot at what will surely be another amazing weekend with amazing people.

Thanks to Hal for the conversation, to the Mannix Family for opening up their ranch for this festival, and to you for listening!

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• Hal Herring
• Backcountry Hunters and Anglers’ Podcast & Blast with Hal Herring
• Old Salt Festival
• Hal’s first M&P episode
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/hal-herring-2/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:30 - Ed introducing Hal at Old Salt Festival
• 4:45 - How Hal ended up in Montana
• 7:15 - Hal’s thoughts on the consolidation, absorption of family ranches
• 9:30 - Threat to public lands 
• 11:15 - Hal’s “ah ha” moments as he’s researching his new book
• 12:45 - Hal’s book recs
• 15:00 - Finding common ground
• 18:15 - Keeping the energy going 
• 19:15 - Hal’s new podcast project 
• 23:45 - What Hal views as current threats to public lands (1872 mining law)
• 26:00 - Optimist or pessimist?
• 29:15 - Who’s taking action?
• 31:45 - Start of Q&A, Hal expanding on new podcast
• 34:00 - Broadening the audience
• 36:00 - What’s Hal doing beyond podcasting to trigger improvement?
• 37:15 - Ideas into action
• 39:00 - Project 2025
• 42:15 - Getting people’s attention without scaring them
• 44:00 - Future of journalism
• 46:00 - Montana Senate race

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Scott Hulet is a legendary writer, editor, and current Creative Director at The Surfer’s Journal. He also has a new book titled Flow Violento: A Scott Hulet Omnibus, which is a compilation of more than thirty years of his writing about surfing, fishing, travel, food, music, and more. If you subscribe to my book recommendations email, then you’ll already know how much I loved the book– Scott brings to life the cultures, waves, and landscapes of Latin America using his unique blend of insights, humor, and perfectly crafted prose. If you’re a fan of travelogues, adventure tales, and cultural immersion, I know you’ll enjoy “Flow Violento.”

Scott was born and raised in southern California, and he’s been writing for longer than he can even remember. Skating and surfing entered his life very early, as did travel to Mexico for surf trips. Through a deep commitment to the craft of writing and surfing, he’s been able to build a successful career that combines both. But for all his success, there have also been some speedbumps along the way, including a string of health scares during his fifties that culminated with a very serious stroke. But after a ton of hard work and help from some inspiring medical professionals, Scott was able to make a full recovery– and refocus his efforts on writing, traveling, and surfing.

I’ve been a huge fan of The Surfer’s Journal and Scott for many, many years, so I was honored that he took the time to chat with me about his life, work, and the new book. I caught him just a few days before he took off to the Colombian Amazon for a fishing and research trip, and we had a fun chat about reading, writing, surfing, traveling, and more. Some of the topics include: his “hunting and gathering” approach to reading: some of his favorite childhood books; his first foundational surfing and traveling experiences; moving to Hawaii after high school; becoming a professional writer; the importance of approaching new cultures with respect; his health scares and lessons learned; his surprising thoughts on social media; rules for travel; and much more.

A big thanks to Scott for the conversation and his decades of important work.  And another big thanks to you for listening.  Enjoy!

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• Flow Violento: A Scott Hulet Omnibus
• The Surfer’s Journal
• Leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
• Ed's book recs
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/scott-hulet/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:30 - Scott’s “hunting and gathering” approach to reading
• 5:30 - Scott’s father’s influence on his reading
• 7:00 - Favorite childhood books
• 8:15 - A brief family history
• 9:35 - Childhood activities in San Diego
• 11:45 - First three foundational surfing experiences
• 16:00 - First adventure in Mexico
• 20:30 - Approaching new cultures and locations with respect… or else
• 24:00 - Heading to university
• 25:45 - Writing: from avocation to vocation
• 28:00 - Mentors
• 34:30 - How TSJ has maintained such a loyal following in the changing world of print media
• 36:45 - A surprisingly positive take on Twitter/X
• 39:45 - The importance of knowing a wide range of people with wide ranges of ideas
• 44:45 - The art of editing
• 47:15 - Courting the Muse
• 49:30 - Lessons learned from several super-intense health trials
• 53:30 - Pre-stroke Scott vs post-stroke Scott
• 55:45 - How to stand out from the crowd as a creative
• 57:15 - There are still unknown, off-the-map places to discover
• 59:00 - Rules for thinking traveler
• 1:01:00 - Important books
• 1:05:00 - Parting words of wisdom

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Rusty Bell is the Director of Gillette College’s Office of Economic Transformation, and Justin Loyka is the Wyoming Energy Program Director at the Nature Conservancy. Rusty and Justin are working together to find sustainable, economically viable solutions to the energy transition that is currently taking place in and around Gillette, Wyoming. Gillette and Campbell County, Wyoming have long been leaders in the United States’  coal production business and have been a foundation of West’s economy for decades. But over the past 15 years or so, coal production has decreased by approximately half, which will have far-reaching consequences for Gillette, the state of Wyoming, and the West.

But as coal mining scales back, Gillette is uniquely positioned to capitalize on the rise of renewable energy and the many positive economic and environmental ripple effects that it creates. Campbell County’s landscape, workforce, infrastructure, transmission capabilities, and wildlife migration patterns offer huge opportunities to be a future hotbed of renewable energy. By transitioning reclaimed coal mines into renewable energy sites, Campbell County will not only be able to fill in the economic gap created by the contraction of the coal business, but will be able to allow Gillette to continue its culture of innovation, hard work, and community pride for decades to come.

Rusty was born and raised in Gillette, and Justin’s been living and working in Wyoming for almost 15 years. As you’ll hear, they’ve formed a partnership based on optimism, creativity, respect, and pragmatism, and they are making great strides to bolster the economic and environmental future of northeastern Wyoming. We talked about a lot in this conversation, including: A history of Wyoming’s coal mining business; the culture and community pride of Gillette; why Gillette is a perfect place for renewables; cultural and political views on renewables; wildlife considerations; details around coal mine reclamation; ways to build trust and lasting relationships; and more. Justin and Rusty also share ideas about why they work so well together, and they both offer some great book recommendations and wise parting words.

I loved this conversation and learned so much about not just energy production, but also community pride, pragmatism, problem-solving, and respectful, productive relationships. A huge thanks to Rusty and Justin for joining me, and thank you for listening. 

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• Rusty Bell
• Justin Loyka
• Wyoming’s Energy Transition Plan
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/rusty-justin/

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This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Colorado chapter of The Nature Conservancy and TNC chapters throughout the Western United States. Guided by science and grounded by decades of collaborative partnerships, The Nature Conservancy has a long-standing legacy of achieving lasting results to create a world where nature and people thrive.

On the last Tuesday of every month throughout 2024, Mountain & Prairie will be delving into conversations with a wide range of The Nature Conservancy’s leaders, partners, collaborators, and stakeholders, highlighting the myriad of conservation challenges, opportunities, and solutions here in the American West and beyond.

To learn more about The Nature Conservancy’s impactful work in the West and around the world, visit www.nature.org

---

TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:30 - A brief history of the coal business in Wyoming
• 10:00 - The unique culture and economy of Gillette, Wyoming
• 16:30 - Some background on coal mine reclamation
• 22:30 - Why Gillette is such a prime location for renewable energy
• 26:00 - Wildlife considerations
• 29:45 - Transmission capacity considerations
• 31:30 - What is a megawatt?
• 34:00 - The cultural and political acceptance of renewables
• 38:30 - Justin’s approach to building trust in Wyoming communities
• 43:30 - The positive ripple effects of a renewable economy
• 48:30 - What Justin admires about Rusty
• 51:30 - What Rusty admires about Justin
• 53:45 - TNC’s role in this energy and economic transition
• 57:30 - How the new Presidential administration will affect this work
• 1:03:30 - Favorite books
• 1:07:15 - Parting words

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Joe Whitworth is the President and CEO of The Freshwater Trust (“TFT”), an innovative and action-oriented conservation organization whose mission is to preserve and restore freshwater ecosystems. With a focus on technology and an all-star staff made up of scientists, attorneys, GIS experts, systems analysts, and more, TFT is pioneering the next generation of conservation by focusing on quantifiable results. Back when I was a Conservation Director here in Colorado, I had the great pleasure of partnering with TFT on a project involving water rights and irrigated farmland, and I was blown away by the organization’s ability to quickly put complex ideas into action for the benefit of land, water, and communities.

Joe was born into a large midwestern family, and from an early age, his grandfather, who was a farmer, played a foundational role in his understanding of land, water, and conservation. After high school, Joe moved east to attend Dartmouth, where he played football, and then he eventually moved West to attend law school. Along the way, he began to focus his professional efforts on doing work that made the world a better place. After several stints at several different organizations, he took the reins of the organization that would eventually become The Freshwater Trust. Joe has now been at the helm of TFT for more than two decades and has grown the organization’s budget tenfold during his tenure. He’s focused, action-oriented, innovative, and very serious about solving big, complex conservation problems in the West and beyond.

As you’ll hear, Joe and I share many common interests in everything from history to reading to conservation to rivers, and, perhaps more importantly, I connect deeply with many of Joe’s core values around hard work, following your own path, and taking action. So, it’s no surprise that we had such a fun conversation. We start out talking about Joe’s grandfather, Joe’s journey from the Midwest to the Ivy League, and how he adjusted to life at Dartmouth. We talk about his early years working as a non-profit consultant and the series of events that led him to The Freshwater Trust. We discuss the ultimatum that led to TFT’s impressive growth, the type of people who thrive as staff members, and he gives an overview of their BasinScout technology. We discuss the future of environmentalism, technology’s role in solving environmental challenges, favorite books, and much more.

As I said, I’ve been a fan of TFT for many years, so I was so glad to finally have this opportunity to chat with Joe about his personal and professional operating systems.  I hope you enjoy.

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• The Freshwater Trust
• Joe Whitworth
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/joe-whitworth/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:00 - Joe’s grandfather and his lasting influence
• 9:00 - Unexpected blessings from a broken femur
• 13:00 - Adjusting to the Ivy League culture
• 16:15 - Next moves after Dartmouth
• 21:30 - Living like a monk and figuring out next steps
• 25:30 - “The world is designed to make you shut up and get in line.”
• 28:45 - Law school and beginnings at the Freshwater Trust
• 29:00 - Revamping The Freshwater Trust
• 34:00 - The board’s reaction to Joe’s plans for the future
• 39:00 - The importance of making hard decisions
• 43:45 - The magic of The Freshwater Trust team
• 47:45 - An overview of BasinScout
• 51:15 - A foundational BasinScout case study
• 58:30 - Ideas and areas of focus on the horizon
• 1:01:00 - The importance of taking action
• 1:03:30 - Next phase of environmentalism
• 1:06:00 - How TFT’s values meld with Joe’s personal values
• 1:09:00 - Expectations of new team members
• 1:12:00 - The TFT model of handing off new ideas and innovation to partners
• 1:16:00 - Favorite books

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Jesse Smith is the Director of Land Stewardship at the White Buffalo Land Trust, which is a global hub for regenerative land stewardship, ecological monitoring and research, education, and more. Jesse brings a unique perspective and a diverse set of experiences to his work in regenerative agriculture– his early interest in architecture led him to pursue an education in design, which then led to a career in product design and visual communication. But over time, he became interested in combining his artistic sensibilities with his love of the land, science, and permaculture, and soon thereafter began his journey in the world of family farming, food production, and education. Jesse is now a leader in the world of regenerative ag, and, as you’ll hear, he has a real gift for communicating the art and science of land stewardship. 

This conversation was recorded in November of 2024 on stage at the REGENERATE conference– one of the country’s foremost gatherings of regenerative agriculture practitioners and thought leaders. REGENERATE is a collaboration between the Quivira Coalition, Holistic Management International, and the American Grassfed Association, and the conference attracts fascinating people from all over the world to share knowledge, build community, and create a culture of resilience and regeneration. 

Despite sitting on stage in front of an auditorium full of people, this conversation felt much more like a fun one-on-one discussion between two friends. We covered everything from Jesse’s winding path into the world of agriculture to some of the more technical details around land monitoring and certifications. We discussed the natural disasters in Jesse’s community that highlighted huge problems in the local food systems, which eventually led to the creation of the White Buffalo Land Trust. We discussed how Jesse prioritizes his work when there are so many urgent challenges to address, and he shares his experiences with big business’s growing interest in regenerative ag. We talk about the Japanese concept of Ikigai, transforming inspiration into action, advice for building a career in regenerative ag, favorite books, and much more. We also allowed ample time for Q&A from the audience, which I know you’ll enjoy.

Jesse mentions tons of useful resources so be sure to visit the episode notes for a full list of topics we discussed and links to everything. A huge thanks to the team at REGENERATE for inviting me to the conference, thank you to Jesse for chatting with me and offering so much wisdom, and thanks to you for listening.

The episode starts out with an introduction from Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, who is the Executive Director of the Quivira Coalition and a past Mountain & Prairie podcast guest. Hope you enjoy!

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• Jesse Smith
• White Buffalo Land Trust
• Figure Ate Foods
• REGENERATE conference
• Quivira Coalition
• Holistic Management International
• American Grassfed Association
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/jesse-smith/

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 3:00 - An introduction from Quivira’s Executive Director, Sarah Wentzel-Fisher
• 4:45 - Ed’s introduction
• 8:00 - Jesse’s early years and path into conservation
• 12:15 - Recognizing the community need that led to the creation of the White Buffalo Land Trust
• 16:00 - How does Jesse prioritize his work at the White Buffalo Land Trust
• 21:45 - Thoughts on big business’s interest in regenerative agriculture
• 27:05 - The complexity of regenerative certifications
• 32:45 - Predictions about the future of regenerative certifications
• 35:30 - Advice for people who want to work in regenerative ag
• 41:00 - Translating inspiration into action
• 45:30 - Audience Q&A: How do stories and on-the-ground experiences help to change people’s minds?
• 50:43 - Audience Q&A: Why is the burden on regenerative producers to get certifications to prove that they are doing it correctly?
• 54:15 - Audience Q&A: Thoughts on the new administration bringing regenerative practitioners into the FDA?
• 59:20 - Audience Q&A: How do we create more accessibility around regenerative ag?
• 1:03:10 - Audience Q&A: How does regenerative ag play a role in procurement by institutional buyers?
• 1:05:00 - Audience Q&A: What is the source of people’s disconnection with food and what is one step to bridge that gap?
• 1:08:20 - Audience Q&A: What are some planning strategies to help balance stewardship and profitability
• 1:12:05 - Audience Q&A: What is the lay of the land when it comes to certifications across a broad range of markets?
• 1:16:15 - Jesse’s book recommendations

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

• Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes
• Mountain & Prairie Shop
• Mountain & Prairie on Instagram
• Upcoming Events
• About Ed Roberson
• Support Mountain & Prairie
• Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts