Meriwether Hardie has built a life around long, ambitious horseback journeys through remote landscapes, and she uses those adventures as a way to better understand land, food, and the people who depend on both. In her early twenties, she rode for a year through South America, and this past summer, she spent five months traveling solo across the American West with two horses and a dog. Along the way, she's not just covering ground, she's asking questions, listening closely, and connecting with agricultural producers and rural communities. That combination of adventure, inquiry, and agriculture is also at the core of her professional work, which has spanned everything from small-scale producers to global supply chains, including time with Rainforest Alliance, all focused on building more resilient, equitable food systems.

She grew up in Vermont, splitting time between her parents' farms—one centered around horses, the other around commercial beekeeping—which gave her both independence and a deep love of working landscapes. As a teenager, she attended a NOLS course in the Wind River Range, which cemented her love for wild places and outdoor education. That foundation eventually led her west to Colorado College, where she studied environmental science and journalism. After college, she received a competitive environmental journalism fellowship that funded her first major horseback expedition through Argentina—an experience that helped define her path and solidified her belief that storytelling can be a powerful tool for understanding complex issues.

In this conversation, we talk about all of that, with a special focus on her most recent ride across the West—what it actually takes to pull off a trip like that, the risks and realities of traveling solo on horseback, and the incredible generosity she encountered along the way. We also talk about what she learned from the farmers and ranchers she met, from the challenges they face to the unexpected pockets of hope she discovered. This is a conversation about big, wild adventures, but it's also about the act of showing up, moving slowly through landscape, asking good questions, and listening to people who don't usually get heard.

Enjoy!

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• Meriwether Hardie
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/meriwether-hardie

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Freeflow Institute, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, and the Well Done Foundation for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Meriwether Hardie and highlighting the Freeflow Institute
• 5:36 - Growing up between two Vermont farms
• 8:15 - Bee stings
• 9:42 - An old, free pony
• 13:25 - Being a different kind of kid
• 15:23 - Colorado College
• 18:12 - NOLS in the family
• 21:58 - The badge of honor that is being a NOLS instructor
• 25:36 - First horse trip
• 30:04 - Asking for help
• 32:34 - Post-Bill McKibben grant
• 34:34 - Meriwether's journey across South America
• 40:24 - How the journey changed her
• 43:22 - Her current adventure
• 47:40 - Burnout
• 49:08 - Injury and change
• 53:55 - Navigating vast landscapes
• 1:00:29 - The best of humanity
• 1:07:04 - Celebrating generational knowledge
• 1:08:38 - The book process
• 1:17:26 - Expectations vs. reality
• 1:22:05 - Book recs
• 1:28:00 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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• Upcoming Events
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• Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Jazmine Ulloa is a national reporter who covers immigration for The New York Times and is the author of the new book "El Paso: Five Families and One Hundred Years of Blood, Migration, Race, and Memory." It's a sweeping, deeply researched look at one of the most overlooked regions in the American West. Born and raised in El Paso, Jazmine brings both a journalist's discipline and a personal connection to the story, weaving together archival research, oral histories, and her own family background to explore how this border community has shaped the broader story of the United States.

What makes Jazmine's work especially compelling is the path she took to get here. She started reporting as a teenager, crossing the border with her grandmother to interview families affected by violence… real, high-stakes journalism while she was still in high school. From there, she worked her way up through local papers across Texas, covering crime, courts, and immigration, eventually moving into national political reporting and earning her role at The New York Times. It's a career built the old-fashioned way: curiosity, extreme hard work, and a clear sense of purpose.

In this conversation, Jazmine and I focus on the long, layered history of El Paso and the surrounding borderlands—how people, cultures, and economies have moved through this region for generations, shaping the Southwest in ways that often go unrecognized. More than anything, this is a conversation about people and place. By following the lives of five families across generations, Jazmine brings a human lens to a complicated history, one that is rich with resilience, identity, and connection, and that adds real depth to our understanding of the American West.

This is a thoughtful conversation with a very smart, purpose-driven author that adds some much needed historical context to this current moment in American culture. I think you'll enjoy it and learn a lot.

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• Jazmine Ulloa
• El Paso: Five Families and One Hundred Years of Blood, Migration, Race, and Memory
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/jazmine-ulloa

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Jazmine Ulloa and highlighting Good News and book recs
• 5:47 - How Jazmine ended up in El Paso
• 12:34 - Pursuing journalism as a career
• 18:19 - Going to the border for the story
• 23:02 - Getting to the New York Times
• 27:09 - Jazmine's speciality
• 30:27 - Dealing with trauma
• 32:38 - Getting into Jazmine's book
• 36:01 - Fear of the unknown
• 36:55 - 2019 El Paso shooting
• 41:29 - Seeing history reflected in the present
• 46:56 - Leaning into the complexity
• 49:33 - Focusing on family
• 54:20 - Knowing her hometown better?
• 57:44 - Time management at its best
• 1:00:24 - Book recs
• 1:02:34 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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• Upcoming Events
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Pete McBride is a photographer, filmmaker, and author whose work has taken him all over the world, but at the center of it all is a river much closer to home: the Colorado River. He's been a frequent guest on this podcast over the years, and his work has consistently offered one of the most thoughtful and visually compelling perspectives on the landscapes and water systems that define the American West. His latest book, "Witness to Water: One Photographer's Mission to Defend the Colorado River," is a departure from his previous photo-driven projects—it's all words, and it brings together two decades of stories, observations, and hard-earned insight from time spent on and around rivers.

In this conversation, Pete and I talk about the Colorado River—where things stand today, what he's seeing across the basin, and why this moment feels especially urgent. We discuss drought, over-allocation, and the complicated, often frustrating realities of water management in the West. But we also zoom out, exploring how Pete's perspective has evolved over time—from adventure photographer chasing stories around the globe to someone deeply committed to telling one layered, long-term story about a single, essential river.

We also spend quite a bit of time on the more personal side of Pete's new book. He opens up about family, the influence of his parents, and a period of his life that didn't match the outward success people might assume. It's honest, vulnerable, and, like the best stories, deeply relatable. As always, there are plenty of wild experiences and hard-earned lessons woven throughout, but what stands out most is Pete's willingness to share the full picture—the wins, the struggles, and everything in between.

Pete is also a talented musician, and the song you heard at the beginning is him playing. And at the end of the episode, you can hear the full song. Be sure to check out the episodes for timestamps and links to everything we discuss, and be sure to grab a copy of "Witness to Water." Enjoy!

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• Pete McBride
• "Witness to Water" by Pete McBride
• Episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/pete-mcbride-4

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Pete McBride and highlighting TNC Colorado
• 5:43 - The "all words" book
• 8:51 - How Pete's dad ended up in Colorado
• 10:50 - Resisting the Colorado River
• 13:36 - Working in India
• 18:45 - Watching the water run out
• 22:51 - Len and Pete's horrific death march
• 27:09 - Combining the reservoirs
• 29:31 - The deadline
• 35:17 - How to get informed on the water conversations
• 39:28 - Adventurers of the Year
• 44:35 - Nobody knows what they're doing
• 49:57 - Not nervous
• 51:53 - Flying nerves
• 55:41 - The most scared Pete has ever been
• 59:24 - Djibouti
• 1:02:02 - Discussing judgment and wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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Sebastian Junger is an award-winning journalist, a New York Times bestselling author, and an Academy Award–nominated filmmaker. Regular listeners are surely familiar with his work, as I've mentioned his books a ridiculous number of times on this podcast over the years—especially his book "Tribe," which has had a lasting influence on how I think about community, purpose, and the kinds of experiences that give people meaning.

So for Episode 300, I was excited to sit down with Sebastian for a real, in-person conversation.

Sebastian is the author of "The Perfect Storm," "War," "Tribe," "Freedom," and most recently "In My Time of Dying," and he's spent decades reporting from war zones and writing about how humans behave under extreme pressure.

In this conversation, we start with his early experience with NOLS and use that as a jumping-off point to explore a theme that runs through much of his work: why small groups facing real adversity create such strong bonds, and why those experiences often feel more meaningful than anything in modern, comfortable life.

From there, we get into boxing, jiu-jitsu, and the idea that environments with real consequences tend to strip away status and surface-level differences, leaving people to be judged on effort, character, and how they show up for others.

We also spend a good amount of time on his recent powerful book, "In My Time of Dying"—including the near-death experience that led to it, how he processed it afterward, and what it changed about how he thinks about fear, mortality, and what actually matters in life.

We talk about parenting, contentment versus happiness, and how different phases of life demand different kinds of attention and energy. And toward the end, we get into writing, his new Substack project (that I highly recommend), smartphones, and why he's chosen to opt out of many versions of modern technology, including social media.

This one covers a lot of ground, but it all ties back to a few core questions: what makes a life feel meaningful, what we lose when things get too easy, and how to stay connected to the people around us.

We recorded this in Aspen, the morning before Sebastian was scheduled to speak at the Aspen Institute, and I'm grateful he took the time to do it—especially on a such a busy day.

As always, check out the episode notes for a full list of topics and links to everything we discuss.

Thanks for listening, I hope you enjoy!

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• Sebastian Junger
• In My Time of Dying
• Sebastian's new Substack
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/sebastian-junger

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Intro + thank you to our sponsors
• 6:54 - Introducing Sebastian Junger, another NOLS grad
• 11:33 - A sense of duty
• 14:22 - The melting pot of a boxing gym
• 17:29 - Developing toughness
• 20:29 - Happiness vs. contentment
• 26:46 - A nice, summer day on Cape Cod
• 33:08 - The loneliest moment of Sebastian's life
• 37:46 - Processing the whole experience
• 40:57 - No blessing without blood
• 43:46 - Can't hide from death
• 46:54 - Being in the moment (benefit of a flip phone)
• 53:15 - Sebastian on Substack
• 1:00:09 - Dealing with the angry internet
• 1:02:05 - A different type of book rec segment
• 1:04:21 - What's new and next for Sebastian

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

• Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes
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• Mountain & Prairie on Instagram
• Upcoming Events
• About Ed Roberson
• Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Darcy Chenoweth is a Montana-based Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner whose career sits at the intersection of medicine, trauma recovery, and the outdoor world. Darcy works with individuals and organizations—especially those in high-stress helping professions such as first responders, healthcare workers, and other frontline roles—to address burnout, trauma exposure, and the long-term impacts of stress. Her work blends psychotherapy, medication management, and practical tools that help people metabolize the intense experiences that often come with caring for others.

Darcy grew up in Colorado's Front Range mountains, and later moved north to Missoula for college, drawn largely by the pull of the northern Rockies and the culture of Montana. Over the years, her life has included living off-grid in western Montana, working as an ER nurse in a small critical-access hospital, teaching backcountry emergency medicine around the world, and maintaining a parallel life as an artist working in ceramics.

Those experiences—especially her years in emergency medicine and mountain environments—shaped her understanding of how trauma and stress accumulate in people who dedicate their lives to helping others. Today, Darcy's practice focuses on helping those individuals build awareness, resilience, and sustainable ways of engaging with difficult work while maintaining healthy lives outside of it.

In this conversation, Darcy and I talk about the hidden drivers of burnout in helping professions, why community is essential for metabolizing trauma, and how modern life—despite all its conveniences—often strips away the friction and connection that humans need to stay mentally healthy. We also discuss the role of nature, trust, and shared experience in healing, along with Darcy's work supporting mountain communities through organizations like Mountain Muskox, which helps people process grief and loss connected to accidents in the mountains.

Although much of Darcy's work focuses on first responders and other helping professionals, the ideas she shares in this conversation are relevant to anyone navigating stress, hardship, or big life transitions. It's a wide-ranging discussion about how humans process difficulty and how we can build lives and communities that help us come out stronger on the other side.

Be sure to check out the episode notes for links to Darcy's practice, her work with Mountain Muskox, and several of the books and resources we discuss. Enjoy!

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• Darcy Chenoweth, DNP, PMHNP
• Mountain Muskox
• Episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/darcy-chenoweth

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Darcy Chenoweth and highlighting M&P supporters
• 6:32 - Rollinsville, Colorado and skiing
• 8:57 - Outdoors influence
• 10:58 - Darcy's plan at 17
• 12:39 - Adjusting to Montana
• 15:00 - Western medicine forays
• 17:47 - And a foray into ceramics and art
• 20:00 - How a compassionate person compartmentalizes
• 23:37 - What is burnout?
• 28:49 - Darcy's practice
• 32:17 - The value of community
• 38:20 - Finding real meaning in the real world
• 42:13 - Is action the anecdote?
• 46:01 - Alcohol advice
• 48:38 - And social media advice
• 50:20 - The change that is being a mother
• 52:50 - Mountain Muskox
• 55:28 - Darcy's role models
• 58:39 - Loss of structures
• 1:02:12 - Book recs and parting words

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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• Upcoming Events
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Mark Kenyon is no stranger to Mountain & Prairie listeners—he's the author of "That Wild Country," host of the Wired to Hunt podcast, and the newly minted Director of Conservation at MeatEater. He's also one of the most voracious readers I know.

Every few years, Mark and I record a special episode where we discuss our top 10 favorite books in a particular category. The first one was our top 10 conservation books, then we explored our top 10 books about the American West—you can find links to both of those episodes in the show notes.

For this episode, we decided to discuss our top 10 adventure books—a category that both Mark and I love and have spent decades reading. We each brought five books that have stayed with us. Some are classics. Some are newer. Some are brutal. Some are unexpectedly funny. All of them reveal something about the human drive to embrace discomfort and move toward the unknown rather than away from it.

Yes, Mark and I love reading adventure books for entertainment and enjoyment, but we also both try to extract lessons from these wild stories that can be applied to our own lives. Whether we're thinking about family, assessing risk, leadership, attitude, or simply not taking ourselves too seriously, there are important lessons to be learned from even the most outlandish adventures. So this conversation goes much deeper than a simple "Read this book because it's good"—we discuss how these books have shaped us and how they continue to influence our thinking.

And if you like book recommendations, be sure to sign up for my bimonthly book recommendations email. For more than ten years, I've been sending one email every other month featuring books I recently read and highly recommend. The topics and genres are all over the place—and can admittedly be a little weird—but people seem to enjoy them, so I keep sending them. I just published my recommendations for January and February 2026, so you can find a link in the show notes and sign up if you're interested.

Thanks so much for listening!

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• Mark Kenyon on Instagram
• Ed and Mark's 10 Conservation Books
• Ed and Mark's 10 Books about the American West
• Ed's Bimonthly Book Recommendations
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/adventure-books

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener-supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Mark Kenyon and highlighting North Bridger Bison
• 6:05 - Mark's new role at MeatEater
• 13:03 - Mark's next book timeline
• 18:28 - A new MeatEater podcast
• 21:43 - Getting into the books, starting with a Doug Peacock classic
• 28:17 - The first TR book Ed ever read
• 35:30 - The layers of Teddy Roosevelt
• 37:59 - Mark's next pick, a more recent option
• 42:21 - Ed's up, with a cliche?
• 47:55 - Bonus rec from Mark
• 50:33 - American Buffalo
• 1:03:03 - Navigating risk outdoors
• 1:07:48 - Pivoting to lighter adventure books
• 1:12:53 - An adventure book by a woman
• 1:17:57 - Mark's last choice and a caribou conversation
• 1:26:35 - And Ed's last choice, connecting with mountaineering
• 1:34:45 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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Stella Maria Baer is a Santa Fe–based painter whose work is deeply rooted in land, light, and place. Known for her luminous depictions of moons, desert skies, horses, and wide-open Southwestern landscapes, Stella often makes her own pigments by hand—grinding rocks, dirt, and minerals into paint that quite literally contains the places she portrays. In addition to her studio practice, she teaches intimate workshops on natural pigment painting for land-based artists on her New Mexico property, creating space for people to reconnect with their creativity, their hands, and the earth itself.

Stella grew up in New Mexico in a family of artists—her mother was a weaver, her grandfather a photographer, her grandmother a sculptor—and spent summers on a Wyoming ranch that shaped her lifelong love of horses and open country. Though art was always around her, she initially pursued religion and philosophy, studying questions of desire, goodness, and the inherent value of land. Painting began not as a career move but as a private, prayerful practice—drawing birds in journals to quiet a busy mind. Over time, that contemplative discipline evolved into a full-time vocation, one that ultimately drew her back home to New Mexico after years on the East Coast, where she had found herself painting the desert from memory and longing.

In this conversation, we talk about that journey—from philosophy classrooms and sacred poetry to moon paintings and hand-ground pigments. Stella shares how critique shaped her work in unexpected ways, how motherhood has influenced both her art and her priorities, and the powerful story behind rescuing her horses from kill pens—animals that now carry deep personal meaning connected to her late mother. We also discuss the importance of play, silence, and being a beginner in a screen-saturated world. Stella rarely does interviews, so I'm especially grateful for her willingness to sit down and speak so thoughtfully and authentically about her life and work. It's a reflective conversation about creativity, land, faith, and following one's unique artistic curiosity.

I feel like Stella and I only scratched the surface of her curiosity, land ethic, and artistic journey, so I'll look forward to having her back for another conversation in the future. But for now, I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did.

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• Stella Maria Baer
• Moon Horse Ranch
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/stella

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Intro and sponsor highlight
• 7:50 - Stella's origin story
• 12:00 - Art in Stella's childhood
• 14:35 - Zoning in and drawing birds
• 19:39 - Religion and philosophy degrees
• 21:58 - Wendell Berry and the Bible
• 25:07 - Responding to critiques
• 27:42 - New Mexico love
• 33:01 - Why moons?
• 36:07 - Importance of play
• 44:12 - How having kids changed things
• 50:54 - Stella's horses
• 55:28 - Stella's workshops
• 1:02:08 - Book recs
• 1:06:00 - Wrapping up

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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• Upcoming Events
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Today's conversation is a joint episode between Mountain & Prairie and The River Radius podcast. I'm joined by Sam Carter, the creator and host of The River Radius.

If you're not already familiar with The River Radius, I give it my highest endorsement. It's the most thoughtful and well-crafted show out there about rivers, water, and the people connected to them. Sam has built something genuinely special, and he's someone I consider both a friend and a collaborator. I've learned a great deal from the way he approaches storytelling, curiosity, and place.

For this episode, instead of a traditional interview, this is a two-way conversation in which Sam and I interview each other—one we're both releasing on our podcast feeds. Sam shared it on The River Radius feed earlier in January, and now I'm sharing it here. We talk about how our podcasts came to be, what keeps us curious after hundreds of episodes, and how rivers, landscapes, and long projects shape the way we think about life and work. We also get into writing, responsibility, attention, grief, ambition, and what it actually looks like to build something slowly and with intention. I think you'll enjoy it.

As always, be sure to check the episode notes for detailed timestamps and links to everything we discuss. And I strongly encourage you to find The River Radius on your favorite podcast player, explore the archives, and give it a listen. Enjoy!

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• The River Radius podcast
• River Radius on Instagram
• Episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/river-radius

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Opening and sponsor highlight
• 5:46 - Ed introducing himself to Sam Carter and vice versa
• 9:19 - Why Sam started River Radius
• 11:49 - People are listening
• 16:36 - So … what is the Mountain & Prairie podcast?
• 24:04 - What do Ed's daughters think of his job?
• 25:30 - How to make a podcast your full-time gig
• 32:47 - 2025 highlights from Sam
• 43:11 - Throughlines
• 48:24 - How Ed's changed the way he looks at the world
• 51:36 - Ed's 2025 highlights
• 59:15 - What's the point of fly fishing?
• 1:03:11 - What's in store for 2026?
• 1:12:17 - Sam and Ed's production strategies
• 1:25:42 - Ed's writing a book!
• 1:30:12 - What is a river for Ed Roberson?
• 1:33:56 - More questions for Ed from Sam's listeners
• 1:36:57 - And questions for Sam from Ed
• 1:42:16 - Parting words

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

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My guest today is Kelsey Morris, and this is her second time on the podcast—which feels long-overdue, because a lot has happened since we last talked.

When Kelsey first joined me nearly five years ago, she was balancing a full-time job while building her art career on the side. Shortly after that conversation, she did something many creative people dream about and very few actually do: she quit her job, changed her phone number, and went all-in on her work as an artist. Since then, she's built a deeply recognizable visual style, taken on major commissions, and quietly carved out a career that sits at the intersection of Western art, wildlife, and the modern outdoor world.

In this conversation, we pick up right where we left off—talking about what it actually takes to make the leap into full-time creative work, how Kelsey thinks about balancing artistic curiosity with financial reality, and how discipline, professionalism, and showing up every day matter just as much as inspiration. We also talk about her evolving style, the pressure of deadlines, why some days the work just doesn't click, and how she's learned when to push through—and when to walk away.

We also get into some big life changes: closing her gallery, preparing for motherhood, spending time at her off-grid cabin in Alaska, and a major upcoming milestone—being selected to paint the 2026 covers of Field & Stream, one of the most iconic names in outdoor media.

Kelsey is thoughtful, grounded, funny, and refreshingly honest about the realities of creative work. This is a conversation about art, ambition, patience, and building a life that actually fits the work you want to do.

I really loved catching up with her, and I think you will too. Enjoy!

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• Kelsey Morris
• Kelsey on Instagram
• Episode notes: https://mountainandprairie.com/kelsey-morris/

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Mountain & Prairie is listener supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy in Colorado, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

• 0:00 - Introducing Kelsey Morris and sponsor information
• 5:55 - Intro and going all in on art
• 10:42 - Marketing oneself
• 13:06 - Space to explore
• 15:57 - Individuality
• 20:05 - How to pay the bills
• 23:02 - Attention to detail
• 26:22 - Deadline torture
• 27:50 - The days when it's not easy
• 32:40 - Milestones
• 37:04 - Who Kelsey looks up to
• 42:00 - The gallery
• 45:02 - Parenting
• 49:16 - The Alaska house
• 55:13 - Field & Stream exclusive
• 59:13 - Book recs
• 1:02:45 - Wrapping up
• 1:03:45 - Ed's goodbye and thank yous

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ABOUT MOUNTAIN & PRAIRIE:

• Mountain & Prairie - All Episodes
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• Mountain & Prairie on Instagram
• Upcoming Events
• About Ed Roberson
• Leave a Review on Apple Podcasts

Jason Gardner is a retired Navy SEAL who now works as a top-level leadership instructor with Echelon Front. Over his thirty-year career in the SEAL teams, he served in combat operations in Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, later becoming Command Master Chief of SEAL Team Five and Training Detachment. Since retiring from the Navy, Jason has worked with hundreds of organizations as a leadership instructor and strategic advisor, helping teams apply high-stakes leadership principles to business and life. He now lives in a remote corner of northeastern Washington with his wife, Iris, and their two children, where he spends his time working on their homestead and staying closely connected to the land.

This is Jason's second time on the podcast, and I'd strongly recommend going back and listening to our first conversation from 2021, along with the episode I recorded with Iris. Those earlier interviews dig deeper into Jason's career, his transition out of the military, and the longer arc of their family's journey—context that adds real depth to what we talk about here.

This conversation unfolds in two parts. The first half hour or so is a firsthand account of the Hope Fire, a fast-moving wildfire that came dangerously close to destroying Jason and Iris's property and home last summer. Jason walks through the experience in detail—what it's like to prepare for evacuation, to work through exhaustion and uncertainty, and to rely on firefighters, neighbors, and community when the stakes are painfully real.

In the second part, we widen the lens. Jason reflects on the lessons that emerged from the fire—about leadership, humility, and responsibility—and connects them to his own personal evolution over the last several years. We talk about PTSD, quitting drinking, the role psychedelic-assisted therapy played in his healing, and how practices like mindfulness, curiosity, kindness, and gratitude have reshaped how he approaches both life and leadership. It's an honest, grounded conversation about resilience, growth, and what it actually means to lead… starting with yourself.

As always, be sure to check out the episode notes for a full list of everything we discussed, with timestamps for everything. There are also links to all of the books and resources that Jason mentions.

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• Jason Gardner
• Jason on Instagram
• Echelon Front
• Full episode notes and links: https://mountainandprairie.com/jason-gardner-2/

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THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS! Mountain & Prairie is listener-supported via Patreon, and brought to you with support from the Central Grasslands Roadmap, The Nature Conservancy, North Bridger Bison, and the Old Salt Co-op for their generous sponsorship.

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TOPICS DISCUSSED:

WILDFIRE

• 7:01 – Intro, Jason's brush with a wildfire
• 11:45 – Fire jumping ridgelines
• 14:05 – Enter USAA
• 16:36 – Community power
• 20:34 – Enter the brush hog
• 25:26 – Day three mental state
• 31:53 – A big damn deal
• 35:09 – A sense of deep pride

LESSONS

• 40:59 – Applying on-the-line lessons to the business world
• 45:20 – The most important leadership trait
• 50:47 – Challenge coins
• 55:05 – A changed perspective
• 1:01:24 – Dealing with cockiness
• 1:05:30 – Jason's mental health journey
• 1:11:43 – Quitting drinking
• 1:19:52 – Self-reflection
• 1:21:34 – Echelon Front Muster
• 1:27:06 – Book recs and wrapping up

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