This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan are joined by performance scientist, coach, and author Steve Magness for a deep dive into the messy, meaningful side of mental toughness. Known for calling BS on outdated notions of grit, Steve shares insights from his latest book, Win the Inside Game, and challenges the idea that suffering is the only path to success. Instead, he makes the case for curiosity, flexibility, and joy as essential ingredients for growth, not just in running, but in life. Together, they explore how identity, external validation, and over-optimization can get in the way of real performance.

Steve explains why some of the fastest runners he’s coached only started thriving once they let go of the pressure to be a runner, and how elite athletes like Sara Hall have learned to recalibrate their goals to preserve their peace of mind. He makes the case for ditching the data when it stops serving us, and why meaningful community—not metrics—is what actually makes us better.

They also unpack what running has to teach us about feeling deeply, building connection, and making space for the full human experience. Whether it’s the emotional highs of crewing a friend at 2 a.m., the quiet power of a watchless workout, or the absurd relief of pushing an empty jogging stroller just to feel fast again—this conversation is a funny, honest, and refreshing reminder that running doesn’t have to be a grind. It can be recess. And maybe that’s the whole point.

Up your hydration game LMNT Lemonade and get a sample pack on us!

Register for Run for the Ages 10k!

Check out the Cloud Cap Marathon here!

Thanks to Running Warehouse for supporting The Trailhead. Check out their great selection of everything from shoes to sun hoodies, with free two-day shipping. 

This week on The Trailhead, we're joined by one of the most thoughtful voices in endurance sports writing: Alex Hutchinson. You might know him from his Outside column, Sweat Science, or his bestselling book Endure. But today, we’re talking about his newest work—The Explorer’s Gene—and what it reveals about why we push into the unknown, whether we’re climbing literal mountains or trying the weirdest thing on a menu.

In this wide-ranging and unexpectedly hilarious conversation, we dig into:

• The "explore vs. exploit" dilemma, and how it shows up in our running, routines, and lives
• Why inefficiency is essential to joy and creativity
• How kids (and ultrarunners) are wired for uncertainty
• The effort paradox: why hard things feel more meaningful
• What AI, IKEA furniture, and running have in common

Alex also shares how becoming a parent and moving beyond his “Endurance Science Guy” brand shaped his perspective on curiosity, comfort zones, and career detours.

Whether you’re stuck in a rut, planning your next big adventure, or wondering if it's time to zag instead of zig, this one’s for you.

This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan put coach and writer Mario Fraioli in the hot seat with their burning trail running questions. 

From “How slow is too slow?” to “When does running become hiking?” we tackle the big, the small, and the existential dilemmas runners face on (and off) the trail. Come for the laughs, stay for Mario's wisdom, and find out why running might just be a Sisyphean project we willingly signed up for.

Check out Mario on the Morning Shakeout. 

This episode is brought to you by Arc'teryx Footwear. The Vertex Speed is your new go-to for mountain adventures.   Obsessively designed. Athlete-tested.  Trailhead approved.

Available online and in Arc'teryx stores. 

Catch the Trailhead live at Meet the Minotaur Skyrace in June!

What does it mean to live a good life? And can your running practice help you get there? In this episode of The Trailhead, Zoë Rom and Brendan Leonard sit down with Sabrina Little: ultrarunner, philosopher, ethics professor, mom of (soon to be) three, and author of The Examined Run: Why Good People Make Better Runners.

Sabrina’s work sits at the fascinating intersection of character development, everyday ethics, and endurance sports. She teaches philosophy at Christopher Newport University and writes a beloved ethics column for iRunFar—and she’s here to explore how running can be a "laboratory for virtue," where our daily choices shape who we become both on and off the trail.

Together, we unpack:

• How running teaches us about moral character (whether we know it or not)
• Everyday ethical choices in sport and life—beyond the big scandals
• Why we hedge the truth (even when no one's watching)
• What it means to celebrate others' success while still chasing your own
• The role of humor and humility in building resilience
• How parenting and philosophy collide 
• And why runners aren’t just chasing finish lines—they’re practicing becoming better people.

🏃‍♂️ This episode is brought to you by our friends at Running Warehouse! Running Warehouse makes it easy to gear up for your next big adventure with thousands of in-depth reviews, expert advice, and fast, free shipping. Whether you're chasing vert in the mountains or keeping it local on your home trails, Running Warehouse has you covered with the best brands and the biggest selection of shoes, apparel, and gear. Before you head out for your next run, stock up at Running Warehouse.

Links and Resources:

• 🧩 The Examined Run: Why Good People Make Better Runners by Sabrina Little: Buy the book
• 🖋️ Sabrina’s ethics column for iRunFar
• Follow Sabrina on Instagram: @sabrina.little

This episode of The Trailhead is hosted by Zoë Rom and Brendan Leonard. It’s part of the UltraSignup Podcast Network. If you loved this conversation, share it with your trail crew, leave us a review, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an adventure.

Follow the show at @trailheadpod, or drop us a line at [email protected] — we’d love to hear your stories, guest ideas, or just say hi! And be sure to check out all the other great shows in the Ultra Podcast Network.

Welcome Brendan Leonard to The Trailhead! He’s the mind behind Semi-Rad, the master of stick figure cartoons, and now, he’s Zoë’s new co-host on The Trailhead. But instead of the usual "tell us about yourself" intro, we’re doing things our way. In this episode, Brendan gets interviewed by the person who knows him best—his mom.

Kathy Leonard pulls no punches in this no-holds-barred sit-down, asking about everything from poop strategies to race regrets.

We also chat about what drew Brendan to ultrarunning, why the middle of the pack is where the magic happens, and how humor helps us survive the weirdest parts of trail running.

We’re not here to chase clout or finish lines—we’re here for the characters, the comedy, and the community that make this sport what it is.

Fuel your long runs the smart way—with real food ingredients backed by science.  Grab your free sample pack at skratchlabs.com with code REALFOODFUEL. 

Big changes are happening at The Trailhead! In this episode, co-hosts Zoë Rom and Buzz Burrell reflect on Buzz’s legendary career in trail running and his next big adventure—his very own podcast, The Buzz with Buzz Burrell.

Buzz shares his perspective on how the sport has evolved, from the early days of ultrarunning to the rise of FKTs (Fastest Known Times), the integration of outdoor culture into trail running, and the innovations that have transformed the way we run. He and Zoë also discuss why authenticity matters in media, what makes someone a lasting presence in the sport, and what listeners can expect from The Buzz, launching March 25th.

This episode of The Trailhead is brought to you by Running Warehouse, your one-stop shop for all things trail and ultrarunning. Check them out and gear up for your next adventure at RunningWarehouse.com.

🔥 Buzz on the history of trail running and its evolution 🏃 The rise of FKTs and why they matter 🎙️ Why The Buzz is bringing something new to trail running media 🤔 What makes someone a legend in the sport? 📖 Buzz’s upcoming book on FKTs - check it out!

• Subscribe to The Buzz with Buzz Burrell – launching March 25th!
• Follow UltraSignup for updates on new podcast episodes.
• Got questions or hot takes for Buzz? Email [email protected]
• Big news for The Trailhead is coming April 1st – stay tuned!

📩 Email us at [email protected] with your questions or guest ideas!

What makes someone want to run their first ultra? And more importantly—what makes them want to come back for a second? The reality is, most people who sign up for an ultra only do one. But why? And how can we help more runners not just finish, but fall in love with the sport? Tune in for tips on running your first - or even tenth - ultramarathon. 

In this episode, Buzz and Zoë dig into what it takes to have a meaningful, successful experience at your first ultra, whether you're eyeing a 50K for the first time or looking to refine your approach. They’re joined by two powerhouse runners and coaches—Dr. Stefanie Flippin and Krissy Moehl—who have spent years helping athletes navigate the highs, lows, and everything in between when it comes to ultrarunning.

• What keeps people from coming back after their first ultra? And what can we do to change that?
• How to transition from roads to trails – Why adjusting your pacing expectations is key, and how to train when access to trails is limited.
• The best training approach for your first ultra – What really works when it comes to long runs, back-to-backs, and balancing speed with endurance.
• Mindset shifts that make a difference – From letting go of rigid time goals to understanding why ultras are as much about problem-solving as they are about running.
• The fueling equation – Why past generations of ultrarunners got this wrong, and how 300+ calories an hour can change your entire race experience.
• Making ultras more accessible – Stefanie shares what real inclusion looks like in the sport, and why handing someone a race bib isn’t enough.

Wahoo KICKR RUN: Take your run training to the next level—whether you're dialing in race-specific pacing, tackling structured workouts, or just escaping the elements. The Wahoo KICKR RUN is the first smart treadmill designed for endurance athletes, with real-road feel and precision control to match your effort. Train smarter and run stronger. Learn more at wahoofitness.com.

LMNT: Ultras aren’t just about water—you need electrolytes, too. Element makes that part easy, with a science-backed formula and none of the junk you don’t need. Our listeners can get a free sample pack with any purchase at drinkelement.com/ultrasignup.

• Running Your First Ultra by Krissy Moehl – https://krissymoehl.com/
• Making Strides Podcast by Stefanie Flippin – Listen Here
• Got a question for Buzz and Zoë? Email [email protected]

1:42 – Buzz and Zoë dive into how their relationship with running has evolved over the years. They explore what it takes to sustain a lifelong love of the sport—and Buzz dishes out some hard-earned running relationship wisdom.

11:58 – Zoë sits down with Tyler Green and Rachel Drake, a power couple in the ultrarunning world. They share the story of how they first met mid-race (pro tip: always pack soap—you never know when you’ll need to impress a potential suitor). They also break down how they juggle elite competition, parenting, and careers while keeping their love for both running and each other alive.

31:59 – Buzz chats with Tabor and Eli Hemming, two of the fastest short-course trail runners in the game. They open up about how they push each other in training and tackle life together—both on the racecourse and on their working ranch in Kremmling, Colorado. Tune in for grounded relationship advice, a dose of competitive fire, and maybe even a ranching tip or two!

The Trailhead is sponsored by Running Warehouse. 

In this episode, Zoë and Buzz dive into their personal journeys toward identifying as environmentalists—exploring why that label can feel complicated and what it truly means to take action for the planet.

7:12 Zoë sits down with Running for Real host and former elite marathoner Tina Muir to discuss the power of small, everyday actions in making running more sustainable. Tina shares the surprising challenges that races face when it comes to sustainability and how she began integrating environmental advocacy into her running.

27:51 Buzz chats with ultrarunning legends Scott and Jenny Jurek about their work with Protect Our Winters and why optimism is a powerful tool for climate advocacy. They discuss the importance of persistence in environmental action, the intersection of policy and personal choices, and how runners can lead the charge for a more sustainable future.

Tune in for practical insights, inspiring stories, and a fresh perspective on what it means to be a runner who cares for the planet.

Zoë and Buzz dive into what community means to them and why the Keep Trail Running Weird awards matter. Instead of focusing on elite athletes, these awards shine a spotlight on the everyday runners, the quirky characters, and the inspiring individuals who make up the heart of the trail running community. It’s our way of celebrating the people who keep this sport vibrant, inclusive, and downright fun

• 6:44 – We chat with Dwight Swaney, winner of the Favorite Trail Weird award, about how to infuse more fun into every run.
• 13:12 – Leah Kate Vincent, 2024's Most Inspirational award winner, shares how she encourages her community to hit the trails—even with a busy to-do list.
• 22:57 – Tony Mendez, 2024's Best Dressed trail runner, gives us tips on embracing the crop top lifestyle and finding joy in the daily grind of running.
• 32:49 – Heather Westberg, winner of 2024’s Best Trail Fail, recounts her wild injury story and how it led her to give back through volunteering.
• 41:05 – Rich Tenaglia spent 2024 traveling across the U.S. in a van, running as many trail races as possible. He shares his insights on living simply and fully embracing the moment.

This episode is a celebration of the quirky, bold, and inspiring people who make trail running the unique and vibrant community we all love. Don’t miss it!