This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan are joined by performance scientist, coach, and author Steve Magness for a deep dive into the messy, meaningful side of mental toughness. Known for calling BS on outdated notions of grit, Steve shares insights from his latest book, Win the Inside Game, and challenges the idea that suffering is the only path to success. Instead, he makes the case for curiosity, flexibility, and joy as essential ingredients for growth, not just in running, but in life. Together, they explore how identity, external validation, and over-optimization can get in the way of real performance.

Steve explains why some of the fastest runners he's coached only started thriving once they let go of the pressure to be a runner, and how elite athletes like Sara Hall have learned to recalibrate their goals to preserve their peace of mind. He makes the case for ditching the data when it stops serving us, and why meaningful community—not metrics—is what actually makes us better.

They also unpack what running has to teach us about feeling deeply, building connection, and making space for the full human experience. Whether it's the emotional highs of crewing a friend at 2 a.m., the quiet power of a watchless workout, or the absurd relief of pushing an empty jogging stroller just to feel fast again—this conversation is a funny, honest, and refreshing reminder that running doesn't have to be a grind. It can be recess. And maybe that's the whole point.

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