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0:28 Joel’s legendary Bloggingheads line 6:55 NASA’s new chief: More than a Musk toady? 12:53 Why we’re still not living in Star Trek 21:05 The space alien question 31:27 Can we make the moon program great again? 46:16 Heading to Overtime

Robert Wright (Nonzero, The Evolution of God, Why Buddhism Is True) and Joel Achenbach (The Grand Idea, Captured by Aliens, A Hole at the Bottom of the Sea). Recorded December 22, 2025. Twitter: https://twitter.com/NonzeroPods