In today's rapidly evolving educational landscape, the intersection of technology and student affairs is more significant than ever. In a recent discussion on the SA Voices from the Field podcast, guests James Quisenberry and David Chao, both seasoned professionals in student affairs technology, shared insights into their work at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign and the University of Pittsburgh. They highlighted the essential role of technology in enhancing student experiences and the ongoing efforts to integrate innovative solutions within student affairs.

The Journey into Student Affairs Technology

Both Quisenberry and Chao entered the realm of student affairs through unique pathways. Quisenberry transitioned from the private sector back into higher education, finding his niche in IT leadership for housing divisions. Similarly, Chao moved from the business world to higher education, recognizing the impact student affairs professionals had on his own college experience. Their experiences underscore the diverse backgrounds that contribute to the field, bringing fresh perspectives that help bridge the gap between technology and student affairs.

The Role of Technology in Student Affairs

In their conversation, Quisenberry and Chao emphasized the importance of technology as a tool to support student affairs work. They discussed the varying organizational models of IT within universities, whether centralized or more distributed, and how each affects the implementation of tech solutions. A critical point raised was the necessity of creating a collaborative environment where student affairs professionals and IT teams work together to design technology that meets the holistic needs of students. This approach ensures that tech solutions are user-centric and support the diverse aspects of student life.

Inclusion and the Future of Technology in Higher Education

A key theme that emerged was the role of technology in fostering inclusion. Technology, if leveraged correctly, serves as a great equalizer by providing access to resources and support for all students. Quisenberry and Chao highlighted ongoing efforts to develop competency standards for technology in student affairs, working towards frameworks that guide the ethical and effective use of data and digital tools. They stressed the importance of preparing for future challenges by collaborating across disciplines, ensuring that technology enhances, rather than hinders, the student experience.

Conclusion

As higher education continues to evolve, the integration of technology into student affairs will be crucial for addressing the needs of new generations of students. Leaders like Quisenberry and Chao are paving the way for a future where technological advancements not only support but elevate the student experience, ensuring that universities remain places of growth, inclusion, and innovation.

Questions We Are Asking At the Conference

Theme 1: Well-being and Healthy Excellence in Student Affairs

How can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students’ well-being?

Theme 2: Changing the Student Affairs Profession

How can we better leverage technology to meet the evolving needs of students and higher education institutions?

Theme 3: Sustaining and Celebrating the Student Affairs Profession

Can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession?

If you would like to share your voice and we cannot record it at the conference, you can send an audio recording to [email protected] by March 28, 2025.

 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA Voices, we're visiting with our technology knowledge community or Tech KC with David Chow and James Quisenberry. David Chow started his career in the business world with a degree in computer science before transitioning to higher ed. He spent the last fifteen years working for the University of Pittsburgh where he currently serves as the director of IT for student affairs. He's been active in the NASPA community for over ten years and currently serves as the chair of the Tech KC.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: His mission is with fifteen years of knowledge, experience, and engagement in student affairs, he believes that he can help bridge the gap between tech and student affairs pros so that together we can enhance the student experience and facilitate their growth in an open and collaborative environment. Navigating the complexities of tech and student affairs requires a holistic approach to the technology itself, how it's utilized in practice, and understanding the data and outcomes. Higher ed is being challenged to adapt and evolve, and often intimidating pace of changes requires greater innovation than ever before. James Quisenberry is currently the executive director for student affairs tech and chief information officer for student affairs at the University of Illinois Urbana Champaign. In his previous role on campus, he served as associate director for the university housing department in tech services. Before joining the Urbana campus, he worked in the private sector with online learning systems focusing on curriculum and student information systems products in k 12 with Pearson Education, NCS, and Nova Net Learning. Mister Quisenberry holds both a BA and MS degree in computer science, both of which he received from Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. He's an active professional in organizations including NASPA, EDUCAUSE, and Akuho Ai.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:56]: He's currently serving as a member of the NASPA Tech KC representing Region 4 East. Mister Quisenberry is also a founding facilitator for the Illinois IT leadership Workshop where he served for over fifteen years to graduate over 375 emerging leaders from all three University of Illinois campuses and the University of Illinois system. He has over thirty five years of experience using technology to support education and focuses on building strong teams in all areas of technology support and invest strongly in leadership and development for all staff so they can lead from where they are. David and James, welcome to SA Voices.

James Quisenberry [00:02:28]: Hey, Jill.

David Chao [00:02:29]: Thank you for having us.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: And we are featuring you today as the current knowledge community co chairs for the NASA technology KC. We love to have our KC chairs on to tell us what's going on in your focus area of student affairs. So I'd love to start us off. Normally, we ask you how you got to your current seat, but I'd love to know first how you two met each other and decided to run as co chairs for the KC.

David Chao [00:02:49]: So we met at NASPA, I think it was 2017. I think it was San Antonio at the national conference at one of the TKC group meetings. And we've been connected ever since then. I've enjoyed working. James has a lot of experience, and I've been able to really learn from him. And and he served as a mentor and a friend to me, as well as a colleague.

James Quisenberry [00:03:06]: Yeah. We got together because technology folks that are focused on technology and student affairs, there's some of us, but there's not a lot of us. And so David and I and a few other people would run into each other at NASPA and at EDUCAUSE, which is the professional association for higher ed IT folks. And we knew we had things to work on, things that we could collaborate with.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:28]: You all approach the work in a little bit of a different way than those of us who have trained as a master's in higher ed. Tell us how you ended up using your IT background and skills in student affairs. And, James, let's start with you.

James Quisenberry [00:03:40]: Yeah. Well, it was, I'll say, a little bit by accident. I started out in higher education in technology, but moved into the private sector for a while and decided I wanted to get back to higher education. And the opportunity that I found was leading IT IT for the housing division here at the University of Illinois, which is a a large operation, you know, 9,500 beds and about 1,200 apartments. And so I got into student affairs because they needed an IT leader because cause they had a complex IT environment. And I had a lot of background. I had spent some time in higher education, so it wasn't too big of a stretch for me. And so that's how I got into it.

James Quisenberry [00:04:16]: And I spent a lot of time working with Akuho early on because I was in housing. And then as I moved into a more student affairs breadth role, I started getting involved with NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:27]: And David, how about yourself?

David Chao [00:04:28]: So I had a bit of a roundabout journey to student affairs. I was in the business world for about ten years, and I don't have the business mentality. And I wanted to look for something, a little different, and I turned to higher education. And so I'm actually a Pitt alumni. So I came back to the University of Pittsburgh and and got a job here. I did not know what student affairs was before I started working for Pitt, but in hindsight, I had a challenging college experience. And as I look back on that experience, I realized how many student affairs professionals I interacted with, even if I didn't fully understand who they were or what they were. And that really kind of inspired me as I worked for Pitt student affairs, just wanting to use my technology skills to help the people that were helping kids like me and providing guidance and mentoring and, and, just helping them develop.

David Chao [00:05:13]: So it, it was interesting how it ended up. It wasn't intentional in any means, but here I am. And I'm, I'm grateful for that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: You're both in unique situations in which you are working directly with the division of student affairs as an IT leader. Some universities are organized with a completely centralized IT model and some are more hub and spoke models. Some of them also have completely unrelated IT departments across large complex organizations. Can you talk to us a little bit about what it means to work directly with student affairs and student affairs professionals in the IT world versus if you were in a more centralized model?

David Chao [00:05:46]: So interestingly, I report to both central IT and to student affairs. So I I do work full time for student affairs, but I'm connected with Pitt IT central IT. So we have a model that that varies depending on the departments. So that allows us to have a good connection with central IT and the resources they have, while staying connected with student affairs and the specific things that they need.

James Quisenberry [00:06:05]: Yeah. And I would say I have something similar in that I'm really active with campus IT, and so I have been tapped many times to lead campus level initiatives even though I'm embedded in student affairs. One of the things, we created shared service for technology and student affairs just about seven years ago. And one of the founding principles of that was you can do IT in many different places. You can do it many ways on campus, but we wanted to create an environment where individuals who are interested in the mission of student affairs that wanted to practice IT and higher ed would come to our unit because that's our focus. Our focus is supporting staff who support students either directly or indirectly. And so I think that's important. I've seen all of the different types of organizations.

James Quisenberry [00:06:54]: Like my big 10 peers, we talk a lot about how we do things differently, and some of them have strong IT organizations like we do in student affairs, and some of them are very small but mighty and have to leverage everything out of the central IT group. And that's the challenge because their focus is not always on the student experience. They may have a focus on teaching and learning, which is faculty centric, or they may have a focus on research, which is, again, not very focused on the student experience or the weird things we have to run-in student affairs and housing and dining and recreation and all of these different places. So I think it's a challenge for those organizations that don't have some technology resources in their student affairs area because they don't get that same kind of focus on serving students.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: I think the typical listener to SA Voices has technology embedded in their career on a daily basis regardless of their personal level of comfort with tools, with databases, with technological spaces beyond the Microsoft Office suite, things like that. How do you approach the work for student affairs professionals who haven't maybe been raised in a collegiate environment where tech was a focus versus professionals who are maybe in lockstep with you and and figuring out the latest and greatest?

David Chao [00:08:10]: I think here at Pitt, you know, our focus has been making sure that we're working with we don't wanna be an on demand service. We wanna be engaged as part of the process. I think I've really been trying to promote a multi discipline approach to our technology that, yes, there's a technical part to it that you have to have a skill set and experience to do. But so much of technology is well, really almost all of it that we do is is user facing, whether it's our students or faculty or staff. And so that kind of design doesn't just happen purely without interacting with the people who are working with them. So just making sure that we're kind of holistic in our way. So it's just not just, Hey, we need technology and you go do it on your own and then come back. It's like we have to develop it together.

David Chao [00:08:49]: And I think that is something that we try to, it's important for us to try to understand student affairs and their goals, what they're working towards, and also share what our IT needs are and what we need from them to help understand the technology. So I think it's really finding that bridge between the two.

James Quisenberry [00:09:06]: Yeah. David, you you stated so succinctly, but, you know, there's a certain amount of chasing after some of the folks we support, and there's a little bit of coaxing them along. It's interesting because I was just actually part of a review for University of Illinois Chicago, their student affairs technology team. And one of the things we focus on, because we were using the CAST standards, is inclusion. And that's a dimension of inclusion that we get to see that's not talked about a lot, which is we have a workforce who may or may not have technology skills. It may not be important to their particular role. And so we have to be providers who are inclusive in being able to support people where they're at with their comfort level with technology. Sometimes that means we we have to go steps further.

James Quisenberry [00:09:52]: Sometimes it means we have to understand that we have a person we're supporting that can do more without us having to get in their way. Right? So that's an unusual nuance to inclusion that is on our minds from a technology standpoint. It harkens to, like, the digital divide conversations from twenty years ago. You you gotta be able to serve everyone with technology in a way that is supportive of them.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: I love that you brought up inclusion as a value in tech, particularly from the tech KC perspective, because it is one of the great equalizers if we're doing it well. We're allowing people to access information through technology, or, support their learning through technology. What are you all thinking about from a KC perspective in terms of inclusion and tech as they come together in student affairs right now?

David Chao [00:10:37]: We have a couple of things that we are focusing on through the TKC. One of them is the ACP and NASPA tech competency. And that was going through revision now. I believe all the competencies are up for review, and we participated in the focus group for the technology competency. And I think there's gonna be a draft to be reviewing in the next couple months. The other area is, as James mentioned, is CAS. There is no standard for technology in CAS currently. And so I believe those last November or so, CAS made an announcement about how they are doing a strategic review about their approach and and long term.

David Chao [00:11:09]: And we reached out to them, offering the TKC and and our assistance in developing a technology standard. And we participated in our focus group, in December as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:18]: I think that one's probably a long time coming for us in student affairs and higher education. As that works through development, do we know a timeline or an anticipated next step in how that might get developed?

David Chao [00:11:28]: Doctor. Not right now. I think they're still evaluating the overall strategy for CAS, but we did engage the assessment and Casey as well, because they have their assessment specific things about, you know, how do you create surveys? How do you word questions to avoid bias? But then they also have the technical side to them too. I mean, you have the Tableaus, you have alterics and the tools that kind of are siblings to the technology, Casey. So we've actually been talking about partnering to work with CAS to make sure those elements are included as well. But no, there's no firm timeline right now.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:55]: When I think about the tech, Casey, I think you all play such an important role in what NASPA is doing to keep us all up to date. If I am a student affairs professional, but I'm not in my IT department, how can I participate or find space within the TKC for me?

James Quisenberry [00:12:09]: Well, we're always looking for people to join us. There's not a test. You don't have to, have a certain level of competency with technology that If you're just interested, we're always happy to have people join us. And I don't know, David, what's our our current interest level based on the tools we have

David Chao [00:12:25]: About 400 right now.

James Quisenberry [00:12:26]: That had expressed interest in the KC. So they're they're getting our our direct, emails and things that we share about what's going on. I always like one of the things that we really appreciate is that NASPA brought back the knowledge community area at the national conference where people can kind of wander around and talk to the different KCs and find their alignments. That's always a good place to do that. Not everybody can travel to NASPA, but if you're interested, our information is on the NASPA website.

David Chao [00:12:56]: Yeah. I would add to that that, you know, we're also trying to bring in a really wide range in terms of inclusion, in terms of of of who our audience is because we we serve everyone. And while James and I have an IT background, we also have faculty. We have deans, we have project managers. We have all aspects of, of student affairs professionals who are involved in technology. And that's important to us. So whether it's our annual awards or sponsored programs or a technology journal, we want to have all aspects from the practical to the research.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:22]: What's on the current priority list for the TKC?

David Chao [00:13:25]: I think just the tech competencies and the CAS standard would be our highest priority, as well as our journal. We are working to publish a new volume of our journal of technology in higher education. And we haven't published since 2021. COVID did a number on all of us, of course. So that's really our focus right now. And just continued outreach and figuring out how we can, we can partner. I think we are all challenged with our resources right now in terms of our time. We all have our day jobs and the outreach.

David Chao [00:13:49]: And I think I think working with NASPA to find ways to increase our engagement and contribute to the overall student affairs profession.

James Quisenberry [00:13:55]: And one of the things we've been looking at for a couple of years is how to provide a resource to student affairs leaders to do external program reviews of how they use technology. That's something that I got interested in because some of my colleagues got me involved in their with their need for program review. And without a specific CAS standard to follow, we've had to kind of build that based on some components of CAS and some components of what we consider to be the guiding lights for higher ed IT service. And that's something we'd like to be in a place where the KC can be a resource where leader and student affairs could come to and say, hey. I'm I'm trying to figure out what's going on with how I use technology. Can you provide a couple of people that could come and help with an external review? So that that's a goal for us to make that that's something that, is ready and available to anyone who needs it.

David Chao [00:14:52]: Yeah. And I would add to that. In addition, the CAS standard is obviously very important when it's pinned on that. But then also having just even self assessment tools so that, you know, institutions can start out on their own just to get a sense of where they're at, before going to a program review. But I do, to echo James, I think the reviews are really important. I think in higher education, you know, we're not we're very collaborative by nature. I mean, yeah, in some cases, we're competing for the same students and and for admission purposes, but the reality is we're all about learning and educating. And chances are whatever issue one institution is dealing with, another institution has been dealing with it too.

David Chao [00:15:25]: So why don't we find ways to try to standardize it? There's no never gonna be one right answer, but maybe we can find ways to narrow it down and at least have a certain range so we're not completely all over the map.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:36]: Let's talk about that self assessment potential tool that's coming forward. What are we, asking institutions or divisions of student affairs to be looking at for doing well in the tech area or being maybe more on the forefront of technological technological development, given that we don't have the standards yet to measure against?

James Quisenberry [00:15:56]: Yeah. I think you have to start with the competency to look at that because even though it's under review, it's it's been there for a little while, and it can be used to see where your staff is at, which helps determine what kind of resources you have to ask these questions. One of one of the really challenging things, and you hit on this earlier, Jill, is that how we use technology in student affairs varies widely how it's organized. And so it's it's kind of hard to build a one size fits all kind of standard because some places have their own staff or maybe even doing their own software development, which is unusual these days, but still happens. Or they might be completely dependent on a third party central IT or other parts of the campus to do this work. So it has to be kind of abstract, the question about how you're using technology. And I think it centers I would like to say it centers around student experience and staff needs, which are kind of highly variable from campus to campus.

David Chao [00:16:57]: I would ask kind of tangentially about skillset regarding the competency. You know, I think understanding what our staff and their technology skills and what their needs are and what we can help them with, or can they, you know, kind of run with them on their own or just guiding them? I think that's an important sense to understand what we can deliver. I think that one of our colleagues, Erica Eckert at Kent State University, she teaches a course that James and I have actually, she's invited us to be guest speakers. It's a technology systems and data and higher education administration. And I was very excited to hear that she was teaching that course, because administration. And I was very excited to hear that she was teaching that course because I was talking to her and she hasn't found a lot of courses like that at other graduate programs, but that's an important exposure. I mean, obviously we're not expecting a student affairs professionals to have a degree in information science to work with technology, but having some foundational skills to understand that and be able to build from. So when we're talking and working with them, we're able, you know, we have that, again, that bridge again, kind of getting a little closer, I think is very helpful.

David Chao [00:17:51]: And, and Joe wanted to ask you about the technology module you're teaching in your master's program well along the lines of Erica's class.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:57]: Absolutely. So I'm working with NASPA and EUCA, which is the European Association that works with student affairs professionals. And NASPA and EUCA have partnered together to create a master's program through LUNA University in Rome. So for our listeners, if you go back to the first episode of this season, we featured seven or eight of the graduate students that are currently in that class, sharing their perspectives on global student affairs and what they're learning. And actually part part of what we did for their class, because one of the things that they asked me about learning was podcasting skills, was we went in straight to lab and said, Hey, you know what? We're gonna talk about production, and we're gonna feature you on the show if you want to be, if you wanna appear. And so it was a a lovely way of integrating theory to practice really quickly in the same four hour block. But we're focused a lot on AI. We're focused a lot on technological tools to support students with disabilities.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:47]: We're gonna be looking at how universities are using technology for recruitment purposes. For example, there's a university in the Southwest who recreated their campus in Minecraft, the video game, as a way of introducing their students to a campus tour. Because, you know, we've we've, I I think, all seen the campus tour where you can kind of click forward and stand on the circle and and look around. But that is a very real estate y kind of way to look at a campus. Whereas what a 17 year old or 18 year old high school senior might be looking for is can I move around the campus in Minecraft? Like it's a very interesting way of approaching the same type of problems. I'm curious how campuses are meeting the needs of Gen Z and quicker than we're ready for meeting the needs of Gen Alpha because we're moving away from a generation of people who tinker to a generation of people for whom things have just always worked. And that's interesting. I read a study about millennials being the only generation that have had to teach both their parents and their children how to fix a printer, which I think is really funny.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:47]: But I think it's interesting because millennials came of age, modern technology, the iPhone, internet came of age and that created a tinkering mindset for that particular generation. Whereas that looks a little different for Boomer, X or Z and Alpha. So I think those are some things that I'm thinking about. Doctor. Jason Perry (3five '30

James Quisenberry [00:20:04]: three): Yeah.

David Chao [00:20:04]: And I I would add to that for sure. I mean, today, this generation, they are the most tech savvy generation ever, and the next generation will be even more so. They're being exposed to technology and have expectations that people didn't have before. And they're used to being on their phone, downloading an app. Do they like it? If they don't, they get rid of it. They get another one. And then as apps become more popular, they kind of almost crowd sources itself. But when we deliver technology, in higher education, you know, we can't move so quickly.

David Chao [00:20:30]: We can't just be, you know, when we're, whether it's academic side or on the student affairs side, you know, we have to put a little more design and thought into our apps. You know, we don't, we can't afford to be putting out version one point zero one point one, one point two, two, one point three. We have to have a little bit more stability because ultimately these services impact our students. So I think for sure that the need to, to design, to lay out your processes before you even get to the technical side, to understand what you're trying to do. That's something I think we really try to work on with our staff to understand there's a process behind this that will be translated. But if the process isn't clearly defined, it will not necessarily translate more to technology. And that despite all the hype about AI, we don't have a magic button right now that just makes everything work if we press it. So I think that's an important part in understanding how we can deliver the technology that our students need.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:13]: I remember when I was at the University of Oregon in the late 2010s, '1 of my favorite uses of technology we did was utilize the GIS mapping service that had been developed by our tech team in conjunction with our food security task force to build kind of a system to text message students when there was free leftover food on campus. And it was an amazing collaboration between GIS mapping, the information technology team, the food security task force and university dining, as well as anyone who was purchasing catering for, for campus events. We all know how much food waste there is on college campuses because of these types of events. And also because of food safety handling reasons, we can't always donate what, is unused, but we could send that information to students who could go get it. And so there's some very cool things happening like that. I'm also wondering if you can share with us any very interesting or new tech trends that are coming down the pike that may or may not be related to AI.

James Quisenberry [00:22:04]: We can't have this conversation without talking about AI. And the trend that is that I'm observing is the idea that you can have an agent for anything, essentially a chatbot that is programmed to answer questions and and solve, I'll call them, simple problems for information gathering because it extends the reach of a lot of our offices want to be able to serve students all the time. Right? But they we can't staff to be there all the time. So that's an important, interesting trend. But, well, a lot of people don't have a good understanding of are the weaknesses of the large language model design and how its goal is not to necessarily give you the most accurate information. Its goal is to give you the information it thinks you want and organize in a way that's pleasing to you. And that's how we get hallucinations or things that come out of those kinds of agents that seem right, but on further review aren't based in fact. So I participated in a higher ed AI conference at Notre Dame back in November, and it was just groups coming together and talking about what they were doing.

James Quisenberry [00:23:09]: And it that seemed to be the the thing that was most popular was talking about building agents and having agents serve in different areas. One thing that I saw that was both creepy and really cool at the same time was a digital doppelganger that a campus had created, which essentially the person who was giving the presentation had a digital image, a deep fake, I guess, of himself that he played. And it went through giving his presentation and shifted to Spanish, and then it shifted to French, and then it shifted to Mandarin. I mean and it was him, and his facial expressions and, you know, mouth movements fit the language that he was delivering. Of course, I don't speak some of those languages, so I don't know how well it was translating. But the idea of when you think about building community, you think about maybe the chancellor of your campus giving a welcome message to international students that comes to them in their language. And it looks like the chancellor, and it sounds but it's delivered in a way that's very comfortable for them to take in. Even though it's creepy, it's very powerful.

James Quisenberry [00:24:11]: And those kinds of capabilities, I know they're they're talking about that in a way to extend how some professors can teach more courses rather than having to have the energy to do that, like, five times, many times, or have it be on demand. That's one of the things that's so concerned about how that kind of technology can be used to spread misinformation and make it look like people who are important or recognize are saying things that they're not they're not really saying. Still, the the benefits of those kinds of capabilities are, I think, apparent.

David Chao [00:24:44]: I

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:45]: think coming down soon, we're gonna have to be having a conversation on how we're developing curriculum for students on recognizing what is AI produced and what is not because that's going to get harder and harder to tell. For now, we can do things like look for uncanny uncanny valley kind of images or AI really is garbage at producing hands and feet for some reason at the moment. So we can look at those things. There's a meme that's always like chat gpt can't tell you how many Rs are in strawberry because of the way that the algorithm works and things like that. So we have this technology now that is doing certain things and it's easier to recognize, but it's going to get more sophisticated. And as it gets more sophisticated, it will be harder for us to tell what's real and what's generated. So I think that's gonna be an interesting thing to watch TKC tackle and lead on the forefront for NASPA coming soon.

David Chao [00:25:28]: Yeah. And I just wanted to add to James, we see that trend here at Pitt in terms of using AI and more focused use cases to learn. I mean, the chat, chat gbt, and all those tools are really fun to play with. But as you mentioned, we find issues with them and we can't afford to be putting out chats to try to provide our students with information and have that kind of variance. But having very specific chatbots that have specific, that are trained to do answer specific questions and narrow it down, it helps us learn from them and be more focused and takes out that variance. And I think that's important. And these are things that we're trying to do at Pitt with some of the chatbots we're playing with as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:00]: With those large language models, it's garbage in, garbage out is what I like to teach. So if we if we put in a garbage prompt, we're gonna get a garbage answer, meaning nonspecific or maybe not quite related to what we're looking at. But it also is a good reminder to us that these language models are crawling our websites for how they're generating our data. So if our website information is not accurate, then their the model will not be able to spit out accurate information back to the user. But if we're looking at specific models for our campuses, we can also then know what our, our audiences are asking for the most. Like what keywords are being input the most? What questions are hardest for people to find? But I will say the one use that we're seeing from Gen Z that terrifies me the most personally is using ChatGPT for therapy. We're seeing young people put in their life situations into ChatGPT and asking for advice that way. And I know that there are some AI counseling based models that are coming out.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:55]: I do think it's a little bit scarier to know that someone who might be having a mental health crisis is turning to an AI service rather than a human that could help them through that difficult situation because there are some things that technology can do really well. But I just don't I just don't know personally that a mental health intervention will ever be done better by machine than by a person.

James Quisenberry [00:27:15]: Yeah. It it's interesting. I think we we kinda actually went through this when with early online education. There there was a conversation about how can we go this route, how can a computer teach students, how we can't lose the human touch and and the value of teachers. That's all true. But one of the things we learned in that process were certain individuals, particularly individuals who were might be in a minority or an underrepresented area, had an opinion of the computer that it was unbiased. And that may not be a safe opinion, by the way, in the world of AI. But the idea of being able AI as a space to try out ideas and to explore things, maybe not mental health, but explore things in a non judgmental place, does have does have some merit and does create a space where sometimes students can ask questions that they wouldn't feel comfortable asking to the TA or the professor because they don't wanna look stupid.

James Quisenberry [00:28:17]: And so while you're concerned about can it do therapy successfully, very valid question, we don't know that in the long term. It does provide a a place where you can interact where some of the stakes are lower from a personal standpoint.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:31]: Absolutely. That is an incredible value that these LLMs can can give our students or the faculty and staff on a campus. And especially because there's no limitation to the hours in which you can ask a question to an LLM, whereas there, you know, there is a limitation to when we can staff our departments. I wanna ask if there's anything in particular that you wish the typical student affairs professional knew about technology that maybe you're seeing, a learning gap for or something in the skill set that you find particularly helpful, when you center technology in the work.

James Quisenberry [00:29:03]: One of the things I've been thinking about a lot is we are a technology team that has been created to support operations. And so we're staffed I won't say we're understaffed, but we're staffed pretty lean because we're student affairs. We have what we need to get by. And one of the things that continues to happen is individuals come to us questions about new ideas or new directions and so forth, but we've never invested in technology and student affairs from an r and d or innovation perspective. It's always been, what do we need to do the operations to get this data load for students this fall and those kinds of things. And we have to think about that because and this is one of the the promises of of AI is that if we can take some of the busy work off of people's plates to create a little more space, then we can think about innovation. Then we can go down that path. And I love it when people ask us if we can do things that are beyond what we're doing, but we have to have this understanding that to invest, you have to have time to think, Right? To innovate, you have to have time to think.

James Quisenberry [00:30:10]: You can't be in constant firefighting mode, which we know we are in a lot of the time. And so that's what I would ask as student affairs professionals to consider is, how are we making space for innovation from a mental capability standpoint? How do we create that space? I know we're doing that. Just about every department of Sioux Fairs can talk about how they're creating space for their staff to for their own health, for their well-being, and such. But that's something I I feel like is an assumption that is made and and needs to be thought through a little bit.

David Chao [00:30:40]: Yeah. And I'd like to echo that, James. I think that we in my experience within student affairs, not just here at Pitt, but at interacting with other institutions, we tend to be very reactive. Higher education doesn't move that fast. And so that ends up putting us always leaving something on the table by being reactive instead of proactive, trying to get ahead of some things. Obviously technology moves very quickly, so you're never going to ever truly be ahead, but we don't need to be often as behind as we are. And I think just trying to shift that a little bit. So we're not just doing the firefighting, the day to day stuff, and just responding that we are getting and we're designing and recreating, which ultimately will allow us to breathe and think and provide better solutions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:19]: I think that that plight of being in constant reaction mode is the plight of pretty much every student affairs department who wants to be serving our students in new and more robust ways. And it's such an intense thing to think about how do you carve out that time, and also still manage to do what you need to do in a given week. So if you all find that magic solution, we'll have you back on the show to tell us how you did it. I do wanna bring us into our theme questions for the season. We are talking about the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have a question for each of those areas. And our first question is on the past. What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of?

David Chao [00:32:05]: I would just say that we're here for our students. We're here to care for them. Times may change. Technology changes. The world changes, but our ability to help them grow and develop and be a resource for them is is never gonna change from

James Quisenberry [00:32:16]: And I plus one on that, but I I would add the culture of assessment, the the ability of student affairs to take a look at what they're doing and compare it to what their expectations are and what other people may be doing in this space, is a continuous improvement mindset, which is we don't call it that, but that's what it is. And that's how we move things forward, both being introspective about what we're doing and looking outward around us to see if somebody has figured it out in a way that we haven't.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:45]: Into the present, what's happening right now in the field of student affairs that's going well for us?

David Chao [00:32:50]: I would say that we are started with COVID and it's continuing now. We're learning to adapt, to be resourceful, and to be resilient. And, you know, these are the things that we teach our students. And so, you know, we should be doing practicing what we preach. Right? And so I think that's something in the present that we really need to focus on.

James Quisenberry [00:33:06]: Yeah. The trend on health and well-being for our students and our and our staff is at a strong point. We just signed on at the University of Illinois to the Okanagan Charter of, being a health promoting university. And and I I think that's built in the recent years, and I think it's a good a good trend.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:23]: And finally, looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does student affairs need to be doing right now to thrive towards the future?

David Chao [00:33:30]: I think collaboration across professional disciplines, whether it's student affairs professionals, technology professionals, business professionals, you know, ultimately, that holistic, multidiscipline approach will serve our students better in what we do by having that.

James Quisenberry [00:33:44]: Yeah. I'd reinforce that by saying, you know, we're tearing down the silos between the different areas in our student affairs, division, and that's that's getting that's getting collaborative opportunities. And that is also better for our students because we're less a bunch of different departments trying to serve them and more a student affairs division who serves them through different paths. I came into student affairs as a technology professional learning student affairs. I wanna be thinking thought of as a student affairs professional practicing technology, and I'm doing that through an EdD program. Because what I found when I've done reviews of other technology teams is that the leader may have come from industry like David and I have, and but and they haven't invested as much in learning the practice of student affairs, either by getting a master's degree or working on an advanced degree. And that that's important because technology folks have a mindset. Student affairs folks have a mindset.

James Quisenberry [00:34:42]: We need to have a balance between those. We have to bring them together as leaders of technology in student affairs.

David Chao [00:34:50]: Yeah. I would add to that. You know, when I I've been in student affairs for almost fifteen years. And when I started, obviously, just learning, it's a pretty big place, right? So really all the different departments, the disciplines, the different goals, but I always found myself drawn to understanding what they do. What are their goals? Things that are specific to student affairs that from an IT professional, you might think, well, that's not technical. So why do I care about that? That? But I think it helps me understand better what they need so I can help deliver that technology. And to James's point, you know, student affairs and IT are, they're two different professionals, professions. They have different education experience, skill sets, and languages.

David Chao [00:35:24]: And so being able to bridge that is is really important. And rather than just sitting on one side of it, I think it's important to learn both sides.

James Quisenberry [00:35:30]: Oh, yes. I could go into that in-depth, but it's something I've been thinking about for years, which is how we use student data in predicting student success, particularly from non academic data. So the stuff that we actually hold in a lot of our student affairs and auxiliaries are are starting to be used into these black boxes that label students as being successful successful or not successful. And it's not being done with a good eye towards the ethical and other implications of making those choices. How you're defining success matters. And you may be labeling something, someone is not successful because they behave in a certain way, say how they use their meal plan, how they use campus recreation, but it's not part of their experience to use it the way the other 90% of the population at the campus think of that. So that's a concern that I have is that leaders at the institution are making these choices about these data inputs and not having a privacy and ethical conversations about they're thinking about, can we do this as opposed to, should we do this, and what are the unintended consequences of those choices?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:38]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:44]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. NASPA has joined over 60 higher education associations and organizations who urged the US Department of Education to rescind its recent guidance outlined in the February 14 dear colleague letter. You can view the dear colleague letter and its subsequent facts in NASPA's public policy hub. If you've never visited the hub before, go to learning.NASPA.org to learn more about many of the policies that NASPA is following currently with updates on a regular basis. There is a new NASPA VPSA and AVP colleague conversation that is happening on 04/17/2025 at 4PM Eastern Standard Time entitled Beyond the Pilot, Leading Large Scale AI Transformation in Student Affairs. Successful AI integration requires more than an isolated pilot program or departmental initiative. This colleague conversation will leverage the transformational potential of AI and student affairs, recommendations for student affairs leaders report, and the four phase framework to empower senior leaders with the tools to develop and scale strategic AI initiatives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:00]: Participants will explore practical approaches to leading AI implement to leading AI implementation, fostering collaboration, and influencing decision making and influencing decision making. You can sign up today on the learning portal at the NASPA website, again, by going to learning.nasa.org. There is an ongoing partnership with IUCAA, which is the European University College Association and Universita LUMSa on a one year certificate program that is designed to on a one year certificate program entitled the training of experts in student affairs and campus life, first level university master's degree. This certificate is designed to develop key competencies for professionals in universities and in halls of residents who deal with all extra academic matters or student affairs issues on their campus that concern university students and their soft skills development. This course, the course combines interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary actions, providing a professional training model in which experts will work in teams with different policies with different profiles, including psychological, pedagogical, organizational, and legal. You can find out more about this certificate program at luumsa, l u m s a, dot I t. One final plug from the episode earlier this week, Jill and I will be at the NASPA annual conference in New Orleans. And if you are planning to attend the conference, we are so excited to be able to meet you, and we would love to be able to have your voices on an upcoming episode.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:39]: At the conference, as usual, we will have three questions that we typically we will have three questions that we will be asking individuals. And even if you are not attending, we would love your voice. We would love your voice for these episodes. The three questions that we are planning to ask include, first, how can student affairs professionals model healthy excellence in their own lives and institutional cultures while supporting students' well-being? Second, how can we better leverage technology to meet the evolving needs of students and higher education institutions? And third, can you share a moment or experience in student affairs that you feel embodies the spirit of this profession? These are the three questions that we plan to ask at the conference. And if you are unable to meet with Jill or I to have your answers recorded, or if you can't attend the conference and would like your voice included, please record an audio recording of your answers to all three of these questions and send that audio file to [email protected]. Each one of these questions will be used for an upcoming episode. For upcoming episodes that will happen this season, I do ask that all responses are sent in by 03/28/2025. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:03]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:24]: Chris, thank you so much for this week's NASPA world. We always appreciate learning from you on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, James and David, we have reached our lightning round. We have seven questions for you to answer in about ninety seconds. I think, David, we're gonna have you go first and, James, you'll answer second. So number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

David Chao [00:42:46]: Oh my gosh. I have no idea.

James Quisenberry [00:42:48]: I'll go with George Thurgood, Bad to the Bone.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:50]: Number two, when you were five years old, what would you wanna be when you grew up?

David Chao [00:42:54]: I think a fireman.

James Quisenberry [00:42:54]: I wanted to be my dad.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:56]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor?

David Chao [00:42:59]: I would say Karen Ashford, assistant dean here at Pitt.

James Quisenberry [00:43:01]: I would say, actually, my mom who retired as dean of the College of Education at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:07]: Number four, your essential student affairs read.

David Chao [00:43:09]: The journal of technology in higher education.

James Quisenberry [00:43:11]: I'm gonna go with five dysfunctions of a team by Patrick Guinzione. I think that's good for everyone, not just student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:17]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

David Chao [00:43:20]: I don't watch a lot of television, so that's not a good question. I'm sorry.

James Quisenberry [00:43:23]: Right now, we're on with my wife. We're doing only murders in the building.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:27]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

David Chao [00:43:31]: SA voices from the field.

James Quisenberry [00:43:32]: I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to say smart

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional?

David Chao [00:43:39]: Yeah. Just wanna shout out to Paul Shantz who is our colleague at Cal State Northridge. He's another one of our long term student affairs IT colleagues.

James Quisenberry [00:43:46]: Yeah. I'm gonna give David a shout out for being our chair last couple of years. He's really done a great job and appreciate his leadership.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:52]: It's been a pleasure to learn from you all today and also learn specifically what's going on in the tech KC. If any of our listeners would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

David Chao [00:44:02]: So I'm on LinkedIn. University of Pittsburgh. That's the fastest way to contact me.

James Quisenberry [00:44:07]: Yeah. And you can reach me at my University of Illinois address, which is [email protected], and I'm on LinkedIn too.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:17]: Thank you both so much for sharing your voices with us today.

James Quisenberry [00:44:20]: Thank you, Jill. Thank you.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:27]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:05]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.