We sit down for a discussion about the futility of rationalism, by way of William James' Varieties of Religious Experience. We start with the question of utopias, and try to diagnose why, if they're doomed to fail, it's still worth trying to create them, and then move on to the question of the scientific project - which seems to be an attempt to create a rationalist utopia. James' take on mystical experiences - that they're nearly universally accessible, though rarely long dwelt in - seems to suggest that there is something about the tremulous experience of being alive that will leave us with the feeling of being part of something larger than ourselves no matter how rational we get. So, then, if we can never escape the mystical experience, is it worth trying? And if it is, and we take the project of science to be worthwhile, where does the mystic live?