Pivot Podcast

AI and church leadership are colliding in ways that demand theological clarity. Dr. Paul Hoffman, author of AI Shepherds and Electric Sheep, joins hosts Terri Elton and Dwight Zscheile to offer a framework for discernment: How might artificial intelligence help or hinder human flourishing? And what does human flourishing mean when we're created in the image of God? Paul brings both pastoral experience and academic rigor to questions many church leaders are facing: Should AI write sermons? How do we shepherd people forming relationships with chatbots? What embodied practices can help our congregations stay grounded in an increasingly digital world?

Rather than embracing technological solutions or rejecting them entirely, Paul invites church leaders into curiosity and theological reflection. He explores which ministry tasks AI can genuinely assist with and which require irreplaceable human presence. From the incarnation of Jesus to the gathered worship of Christian community, Paul helps us see what technology can never touch and why embodiment matters more than ever. Whether your congregation is already experimenting with AI or you're just beginning these conversations, this episode offers practical wisdom for shepherding your people through this cultural shift.

Ministry burnout prevention isn't just about better time management or clearer boundaries. In this episode, Wes Granberg-Michaelson shares what he learned from five decades of church leadership and 50 years of personal journals: the leaders who sustain faithful ministry for the long haul are the ones who tend their inner lives. Wes explains why "only the pain you name is available for transformation" and why the pain you don't name gets transmitted to others. He talks about building a "holding space" that takes care of your soul when no board or congregation will do it for you, why prayer is fundamentally about attention in an attention economy, and why strategic plans can't do what spiritual grounding does. For church leaders feeling exhausted or discouraged, Wes offers both honest diagnosis and genuine hope.

Wes also addresses what's really happening with spiritual interest in America beyond the decline statistics, why the deepest failure of mainline Christianity has been the failure of Christian formation, and what pastors can learn from Dietrich Bonhoeffer about forming communities in challenging times. Drawing on his experience from the U.S. Senate to denominational leadership to global ecumenical work, Wes challenges the addiction to planning and control that infiltrates the church and invites leaders to pay attention to where God is already at work. This conversation offers wisdom about integrating your inward and outward journeys for sustainable, faithful leadership.

In this special Thanksgiving episode, Luther Seminary professor Dr. Lois Malcolm offers a seven-minute blessing that reclaims what gratitude and thanksgiving actually mean in Scripture. Instead of linking blessing with wealth, health, and success, Lois explores the deeper biblical meaning: that blessings invoke and impart God's very presence with us. She traces blessing from Abraham through Moses, David, and Jesus, showing how God's people are called to be a blessing to others even when we fail, even in the face of injustice.

Lois concludes with a personal blessing adapted from Ephesians 3 for every church leader listening. Whether you're worn down from ministry demands or simply need to hear that God's steadfast love and mercy remain with you in life's complexity, this blessing is for you. As Psalm 103 reminds us, God gives our souls "the animating center of our lives, something artificial intelligence cannot rob or create." This Thanksgiving, receive a blessing grounded not in your circumstances but in the God who accomplishes abundantly more than we can ask or imagine.

When established churches struggle to connect with their communities, leaders typically reach for one of two solutions: work harder at the inherited model, or import a successful church plant template. But Dr. Dwight Zscheile and Rev. Ed Olsworth-Peter are inviting us to consider a different approach—one that develops church plant leadership skills through deep listening to the Spirit and to the neighborhood rather than implementing blueprints or programs. In this episode, they discuss their new book, The Starter's Way, which draws on stories from both the UK's Fresh Expression Movement and communities across the United States to explore the spiritual foundations and practices that make for faithful, sustainable leadership of new Christian communities.

Dwight and Ed share compelling examples of contextual ministry, from a Wisconsin community that created "Play, Pray, and Popsicles" for families with neurodivergent children to forest churches in the UK where people encounter God in creation. They explore the 15 pioneer principles that shape church plant leadership skills, organized around spiritual foundations (Jesus-centered, prayerful, called, bicultural, and responsive), inward qualities (discerning, self-giving, playful, hospitable, and resilient), and outward practices (noticing, adapting, experimenting, co-creating, and persisting). This conversation offers hope for leaders who want to join what God is already doing in their neighborhoods rather than trying to fix inherited structures or replicate someone else's success story.

Many church leaders notice fewer young adults in the pews and wonder what strategy to try next. But Kristina Frugé, who leads the Riverside Innovation Hub at Augsburg University, has spent years actually listening to young adults. She's discovered something encouraging: they are open to connections to spiritual communities. They're hungry for authentic relationships, meaningful engagement with their real lives, and churches that practice what they preach. The gap isn't about coffee bars or contemporary worship. It's about whether churches lead with genuine curiosity or anxiety about decline. Young adults can tell the difference.

In this episode, Kristina shares insights from her work with hundreds of young adults and from the new book "Hungry for Hope: Letters to the Church from Young Adults." She explains why young adults want to be known rather than known about, how "courageous curiosity" creates space for genuine connection, and why grief might be an important place to start. The good news? Churches already have what they need—relationships, practices, stories, and people who know how to love their neighbors. The question is whether we're willing to listen for where God is already at work in the lives of faith and young adults in our communities.

Our congregations are filled with people wrestling with anxiety, depression, and struggles they don't always name out loud. Many church leaders feel the weight of wanting to help people through their mental health challenges, but what does a shared approach to pastoral care look like in a church setting? And how can leaders companion people through these struggles without burning out? In this episode, Dr. Cody Sanders—Associate Professor of Congregational and Community Care Leadership at Luther Seminary and author of Spiritual Care First Aid—shares how churches can become communities of healing and hope. He offers practical examples of collaborative approaches to care, from worship planning to equipping lay caregivers, that honor both the humanity of those who are struggling and the limitations of those who care.

You'll discover why companioning beats fixing every time, how to create trauma-informed care practices without clinical training, and practical ways to combat loneliness in your congregation. Cody shares stories of churches doing this well—from pastors passing out donuts at the high school to congregations equipping lay care teams that become self-sustaining. Whether you're a pastor feeling overwhelmed by caregiving responsibilities or a lay leader wanting to support your community better, this conversation offers a sustainable path forward that invites your entire church to share in the ministry of care.

What does it take to become a missional church in today's changing landscape? Bishop Scott Johnson and Deacon Timothy Siburg of the Nebraska Synod ELCA are helping 217 congregations discover the answer—and it starts with listening rather than fixing. In this episode, they share how churches across Nebraska are shifting from asking "How do we get people back?" to "What is God already doing in our community?" Through their Vitality Initiative and Mission Field Nebraska, they're creating permission-giving cultures where congregations experiment boldly, learn from unexpected partners, and discover that faithfulness means joining what God is doing in the present.

Scott and Timothy offer practical wisdom for any church leader navigating change, whether in rural or urban contexts. You'll learn how to move from church-centered to God-centered questions, why giving permission is more powerful than providing programs, and how cross-cultural partnerships can transform traditional congregations into vibrant missional churches. They don't sugarcoat the challenges ahead—drawing on Romans 8's image of labor pains, they acknowledge the hard work required. But they also remind us that we're not alone in this work, and that the primary leader of the church is God, not us. If you're feeling overwhelmed by the pressure to innovate while managing traditional ministry demands, this conversation offers hope and a clearer path forward.

Integrating faith and work is one of the biggest gaps in church ministry today. Most Christians spend the majority of their waking hours at work, navigating ethical dilemmas, difficult relationships, and daily decisions that test their faith. Yet what gets talked about in church on Sunday rarely connects with what people are wrestling with Monday through Saturday. Many business leaders feel like church either puts them on a pedestal as "job creators" or critiques them for participating in capitalism—and neither approach helps them figure out how to follow Jesus in the workplace.

In this episode, Dr. Michael Binder—a Luther Seminary professor and co-owner of a five-generation HVAC business—shares what he's learned from living in both worlds. Michael helps us imagine what it would look like for churches to create space where people can talk about their real work struggles, what preaching sounds like when it equips people for the six days they're not in church, and why helping members integrate faith and work into their daily callings might be some of the most important ministry we do. If your members spend most of their lives outside the church building, this conversation will challenge you to think differently about faith and work integration.

Gen Z and Gen Alpha have grown up in a world where institutional trust has deeply eroded—and that changes everything about youth ministry. In this episode, sociologist Dr. Josh Packard explains why the ministry strategies that worked for previous generations are falling flat with today's young people. It's not that Gen Z and Gen Alpha hate the church or are rebelling against it. Most simply grew up without any connection to religious institutions at all. Josh shares why the shift from high-trust to low-trust culture means churches must lead with relationships rather than programs, buildings, or pastoral credentials.

Josh, author of "Faithful Futures: Sacred Tools for Engaging Younger Generations," introduces the concept of "sacred listening"—a three-part framework that helps youth workers build authentic connections at scale. You'll learn practical tools for managing dozens or even hundreds of relationships, why teenagers' "thin faith" expressions aren't the real concern, what COVID did to young people's social development, and why the critical years between 18-30 determine whether youthful faith deepens or disappears. This conversation offers hope and practical guidance for anyone working with Gen Z and Gen Alpha.

Are you exhausted from trying to be the perfect church leader who has all the answers? Nicole Massie Martin, COO of Christianity Today and author of "Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender," introduces us to cruciform leadership—a revolutionary approach that places the cross at the center of how we lead. Drawing from her journey from corporate consultant to ministry executive, Nicole reveals how most leadership models ignore the very heart of Christian faith and why pastors are burning out trying to lead like the world instead of following Jesus.

In this powerful conversation, Nicole shows us what it means to replace perfectionism with perfect union with Christ, how to let God set the pace instead of competing with other churches, and why authentic vulnerability is what congregations are actually hungry for. Through cruciform leadership, church leaders can move from trying to be their congregation's savior to pointing people toward the real Savior, discovering the abundant life that comes through embracing the way of the cross rather than chasing worldly success.