Plain Talk

"It's a tragedy what's happening in Texas," Dr. Paul Carson said on this episode of Plain Talk, referring to that state's measels outbreak, which has already claimed the life of one child.

Carson is a medical doctor and an emeritus professor of the public health faculty at North Dakota State University. I wrote recently about North Dakota's statewide kindergarten vaccination rates for well-established vaccines for things like measels and chickenpox are worse than in Texas.

Dr. Carson said that means North Dakota is at risk "We have, as Rob alluded to in his article, we have counties in North Dakota that are significantly worse than the areas of Texas that we're talking about," he said. "It's often a matter of time before highly contagious viruses like measles get back into a community and circulate again."

"Thankfully most of us are vaccinated, but we've got counties in North Dakota where 20, 25, 30% of the kindergarteners aren't vaccinated," he continued. "If it kind of gets into one of those schools, you'll see it spread and that often shuts down a school and may shut down an entire school for weeks."

"It doesn't feel like we should be surprised if we see a news report that there's a measles case that pops up somewhere in North Dakota," he added.

Also on this episode, Dakota Rudesill, a professor of law at Ohio State University and a former legislative assisstant on national security to Sen. Kent Conrad, answered questions about the tense situation between the United States, Ukraine, and Russia.

Specifically, Rudesill spoke about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's visit to, and subsequent ejection from, the White House.

"One of the things that happened there is that the president and the vice president really wanted Zelenskyy to adopt some of their talking points and parrot those or at least not contest them," he said, "and Zalinsky wasn't willing to do that. And that is very much like the baseline now which has emerged for people in the Trump administration or people who want Trump's favor which is you have to endorse false things that he says."

This extends, he argues, to people in Trump's orbit refusing to acknowledge something as verfiably true as Russia's invasion of Ukraine. "The nominees for the top jobs at the Department of Defense scrupulously will not acknowledge the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine," Rudesill said. "The closest we saw to that was the nominee for the under secretary of defense for policy. He said, you know, I understand from the president and vice president that words are very important and so I will not say anything to undermine the negotiations. He couldn't acknowledge the largest invasion since World War II even occurred."

This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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Rep. Scott Louser, a Republican from Minot, is one of a handful of North Dakota lawmakers who, after casting a vote in favor of a resolution asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn precedent striking down state bans on same-sex marriage, came to regret the decision.

"I'm taking the heat for it," Louser said of his change of heart on this episode of Plain Talk.

"I don't have a fantastic answer that's going to satisfy everybody," he said when co-host Chad Oban and I asked him about how he came to change his mind. "The best that I could do was tell the world I regretted what I did."

"I don't go tell the public, you know, I wish I would have voted different on a bill every time," he continued. "This one warranted that. I made a mistake and I've apologized for it, but probably that's not going to satisfy everybody. I understand that."

Louser also discussed the property tax debate. His bill was one of three packages for property tax reform and relief that the House sent the Senate before the crossover break.

Why did the House send three bills instead of coalescing around one? He said there was a directive from leadership to "send all three out to the floor of the House and let the whole house decide as opposed to one committee."

"The strategy was give the Senate the best ideas that we've had and see what they think," he continued.

Also on this episode, Sen. Sean Cleary spoke about his objection on the floor of the Senate to comments characterizing North Dakota's educators and librarians as groomers and pedophiles, and his opposition to the bill they were made in support of.

"We're basically bringing law enforcement into a conversation about books in the library," he said of Senate Bill 2307, adding he "just couldn't support a bill like that."

Cleary also spoke about a constitutional amendment he proposed which would ban the use of revenues from charitable gaming for political purposes. Legislation defeated in the House before crossover would have directed local governments to deem political organizations like campaigns and parties as "public-spirited" and eligible for the proceeds.

Cleary said that bill made him realize "that we have some pretty serious concerns when it comes to gaming in this state." Senate Concurrent Resolution 4027 is "low hanging fruit"when it comes to addressing some of the challenges the explosion in gambling in North Dakota has wrought.

This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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On Tuesday, February 25, lawmakers in the state House of Representatives worked late into the evening to finish work on the hundreds of bills introduced in that chamber this session so that they could be sent over to the state Senate for consideration.

This legislative session has seen a lot of bills introduced — the most since the 1990s — and that's put a strain on the process. So much so that state Rep. Landon Bahl, a Republican from Grand Forks, says it's precluding lawmakers from giving important issues the attention they deserve.

Bills get "ramrodded" into up or down votes, Bahl said, with lawmakers sometimes approving bad legislation in the hope that their colleagues in the other legislative chamber will address the flaws.

Bahl sponsored House Bill 1408 with an eye toward addressing some of these problems. The bill, which passed the House by a wide margin earlier this month, would move lawmakers to annual sessions, albeit within the same 80-day constitutional limit they already have. Bahl thinks that would allow the Legislature to do a better job of keeping up with North Dakota's needs, but on this episode of Plain Talk, he said more is needed.

Like a cap on the number of bills any lawmaker can introduce. Bahl pointed out that some of his colleagues have introduced dozens of bills. He said he started the session with just three introduced. "I guarantee you other lawmakers do not know their 10, 20, 30 bills inside and out. And I think that's poor legislation," he said.

Bahl also said he'd support giving the Legislature's interim committees more power to finalize their work on bills so they can be brought immediately to the floor for votes when the legislative session begins. He'd also like committees to be able to kill legislation without it coming to a floor vote.

"I think that streamlines government," he said. "It's a better use of our time. The efficiency is going to increase. Our work, the quality of our work is going to increase. The committees have the time to dive in."

Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I discuss Rep. Austin Foss's emotional comments against a resolution opposing same-sex marriage which passed the House this week, as well as progress on property tax legislation, a controversial sentencing bill, and the failure of legislation funding school lunches for all North Dakota children.

This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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"I got angry," Scott Davis said on this episode of Plain Talk. "I had to walk away."

Davis served as the Commissioner of Indian Affairs under three North Dakota governors (John Hoeven, Jack Dalrymple, and Doug Burgum), and now works as a consultant for North Dakota's tribal communities (he has familial roots in both the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and the Turtle Mountain Chippewa). What made him angry, and want to walk away, were comments by Sen. Diane Larsen, a Bismarck Republican, suggesting that "cartels" were behind a proposal by the Turtle Mountain tribe to open a casino near Grand Forks.

Davis is also a Republican, I should point out, having served under Republican governors, and as a leader in his local NDGOP district.

On Plain Talk, Davis pointed out that tribal gaming is legal and thoroughly regulated by tribal government, state government, and the federal government. He contrasted that with charitable gaming which, thanks to the popularity of electronic pull tab machines, has exploded to become a multi-billion dollar enterprise in North Dakota. He described charitable gaming as "wild west, unregulated activity."

Davis said he warned lawmakers about electronic pull tabs when their legalization was being debated in Bismarck. "Nobody wanted to listen to Scott Davis the Indian guy."

Asked if charitable gaming had put a dent in tribal proceeds from gambling, he said "big time."

He expressed frustration that lawmakers like Larsen are so often dismissive of the tribe's interests. "Treat us fair," he said. "That's all we ask for."

Davis appeared alongside Sen. Scott Meyer, a Republican from Grand Forks, who sponsored enabling legislation (Senate Bill 2376) that would allow Turtle Mountain's project to proceed. That bill failed in the Senate recently, but Meyer expressed confidence that it could return later in the session.

Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I reacted to some feedback from listeners, and discussed recent debates over Sen. Keith Boehm's book ban bill, which passed in the state Senate this week, and school lunch funding legislation, which got a "do not pass" recommendation from the House appropriations committee after what seemed like a perfunctory debate.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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MINOT — For the first time ever we took the Plain Talk podcast on the road, to famed bar, restaurant, and political hangout Peacock Alley. We interviewed Senate Majority Leader David Hogue and House Minority Leader Zac Ista. We also interviewed a couple of former lawmakers, Jessica Bell and Erin Oban.

The theme of the night? The legislature is going to have to change.

Bell and Oban talked about how much the Legislature changed, both during their time and since. Things have become more performative and less productive.

Hogue and Ista talked about the struggles to get through more than a thousand proposed bills while still giving each of them the scrutiny and consideration they deserve.

All of this is happening as both North Dakota, and the nation, go through a sometimes baffling political realignment, and North Dakota, specifically, has a new term limits law for lawmakers looming.

What can North Dakota do to ensure that the Legislature can continue to serve our state well, without veering off into the morass of dysfunction that's reality in Washington D.C.?

We also talked about tough fights taking place in the current legislative session over sentencing, property taxes, and more.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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Lawmakers in Bismarck are considering a number of school choice bills which would, in various ways, make public dollars available for parents to use toward private school tuition.

The most important one, perhaps, is Senate Bill 2400, introduced by Sen. Michelle Axtman, and it does a whole lot more than just fund school choice.

As currently amended, it would create what's called education savings accounts, making at least $1,000 available for every student in North Dakota who attends a public school or is home-schooled. For students attending participating private schools, there would be $4,000 available per student for families making 300% of the federal poverty level or less, $2,000 for families making up to 500% of the poverty level, and $1,000 for everyone else.

These funds could be used not just for tuition, but other things as well, like a STEM camp or tutoring, but there's a big price tag attached. The most recent fiscal note attached to the legislation estimates its cost at north of $200 million per two-year budget cycle.

Sen. Axtman joined Plain Talk to discuss this legislation, including its cost, the impact it may have on funding for public schools, and the process through which North Dakotans would access these funds.

Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I talked about the status of culture war bills in the Legislature, as well as Rep. Lori VanWinkle's vile comments about infertile women.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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At the beginning of this episode of Plain Talk, Attorney General Drew Wrigley took exception to my recent reporting suggesting that he and Gov. Kelly Armstrong are at odds over sentencing legislation and the performance of state prison officials.

Based on what would follow, I think the conflict between two of North Dakota's top elected officials is positively overt.

According to Wrigely, the North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, headed by director Colby Braun, is lying to state lawmakers and the public.

He took particular issue with a recent fiscal note issued by the DOCR indicating that so-called "truth in sentencing" legislation he supports, which would mean that inmates serve a larger percentage of their sentences, will cost taxpayers as much as $269 million.

"Their quest is to make it extraordinarily expensive to turn people away from the bill," he said.

"That is a blatant falsehood," a stormy Wrigley told guest-cost Erin Oban and I.

"It is not worth the paper it's written on," he continued about the fiscal note.

"It would be a joke if it weren't a matter of serious policy debate," he said.

Wrigley also said that DOCR officials have been hiding data from the public and lawmakers, and making misleading statements about rising crime rates. "What an absolute abdication of responsibility," concluded.

These are serious accusations -- lying, abdication of responsibility, etc. -- but Braun isn't an independent operator. He has a boss. That's Armstrong, who was also scheduled to appear on this episode to discuss the progress of property tax reform, which he has made his primary focus during this legislative session.

I asked Wrigley if he felt Braun should be fired, and he demured, saying it wasn't his place to advise the governor on personnel issues.

As for Armstrong's feelings about Braun? "I have total confidence in Colby," Armstrong told us when I asked him about Wrigley's remarks.

"I try not to make things personal," he added.

Armstrong said he hadn't yet reviewed the fiscal note issued by DOCR in response to Wrigley's legislation, which is Senate Bill 2128, but expressed some sympathy with its conclusions about cost. "It turns out when you lock people up, it's expensive," he said. Armstrong also said that while he'll take advice from his staff and cabinet into consideration, if he is ultimately asked to sign something like SB2128 into law, the decision will ultimately be based on his consideration of its merits.

As for the progress on property taxes, Armstrong said he's pleased with the debate, though he's worried about lawmakers watering down the caps in his bill. House Bill 1176, which was introduced by Rep. Mike Nathe and carries the governor's plan, was amended in policy committees to allow local governments to set aside a 3% cap on spending increases for as much as 10 years if approved by a vote.

"The way it was done probably means there aren't really caps," Armstrong said of the change, later arguing that it was a loophole so big "you could drive a grain truck through it."

This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water and future. Become a member, volunteer and take action, or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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In our promotions for this episode of Plain Talk, we had indicated that state Rep. Nico Rios would be joining us. Rios has made some fairly ugly headlines over the past year or so.

He derated two law enforcement officers with bigoted and homophobic comments during an arrest for DUI. More recently, with regard to Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo, he wondered in an X post "if the CIA would help Trump overthrow and kick this Jew out of power in Mexico." He's also introduced a resolution, in the current legislative session in Bismarck, which would have the State of North Dakota "acknowledge the Kingship of Jesus Christ over all the world," something that likely violates the state constitution, the U.S. constitution, and would not be in keeping with what many North Dakotans -- those of the Jewish faith, or Islamic, etc. -- believe to be true.

Me and my co-host, Chad Oban, were looking forward to a respectful interview with Rios about these words and actions. Unfortunately, just minutes before the agreed-upon time for the interview, Rios backed out.

"Ay dude I'm not going on your boring little show," he told me in a text. "When I initially agreed to come on Sunday afternoon I thought it was just to promote my Christ is King Resolution, but you seem to be focusing on my social media. NOT NEWS. Got more important things to do than chat Capitol gossip."

We did have a very good interview with state Rep. Mike Nathe, who spoke about his property tax bill (which carries Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan for reform) as well as legislation he's backing that would require all candidates seeking a political party's nomination to collect signatures to appear on the primary ballot. Currently, candidates endorsed at party conventions do not have to collect signatures.

"I'm just glad they got this one out so everyone can see it," he said of his property tax bill, which just emerged from the policy committee with a "do-pass" recommendation and some amendments. The committee added the option for local voters to approve a 10-year exemption from the budget caps promoted by Gov. Armstrong. It also lowered the amount of the primary residence tax credit by roughly $100, and added an income tax cut.

"If it was my desire that would have been in a separate bill," he said of the income tax portion.

Nathe also responded to some of the controversy around Rep. Rios. "I don't agree with it," he said of Rios's words and actions. "My colleagues don't agree with it."

Asked if he felt his party should remove Rios from the caucus, and strip him of committee assignments, Nathe deferred to House Majority Leader Mike Lefor, though he did have this message for the people who elected Rios: "The people of Williston have got to stand up."

This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water, and future. Become a member; volunteer and take action; or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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"We live in an age where people can say whatever they want without consequence," says Steve Hunegs, executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Minnesota and the Dakotas.

Hunegs appeared on this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the anti-Semitic comments made recently by state Rep. Nico Rios, who referred to Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo as "this Jew."

"There's nothing new under the sun with anti-Semitism," Hunegs told me and co-host Chad Oban, noting that hateful tropes and conspiracy theories focused on the Jewish people are often centuries old and dusted off for modern contexts.

He said he hopes to have a "respectful" and "intelligent" conversation with Rep. Rios at some point. He wants to "try to have good speech drive out the bad speech."

Also on this episode, Cody Schuler, advocacy manager for the ACLU of North Dakota, joined to talk about how some communities in North Dakota are trying to balance the principles of free speech with the desire some in public have to use open meetings as stages for at times hateful and bigoted language. He also spoke to legislation mandating the 10 commandments and Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms, as well as a Republican-backed bill that would expand legal access to abortion in the state.

This episode is presented by Dakota Resource Council. For nearly 50 years, DRC has worked across North Dakota to protect our land, water, and future. Become a member; volunteer and take action; or donate today at www.DRCinfo.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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Property taxes are complicated, so is it any surprise that reforming the property tax code is similarly complicated?

We talked about the property tax issue on this Plain Talk (again) because it is, without a doubt, the most complicated and consequential question before lawmakers in Bismarck during the 2025 session.

Rep. Scott Louser, a Republican from Minot, discussed his property tax plan, which includes coupling a spending cap on local governments with a buydown of property tax mills. He also critiqued Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan, saying he's worried that his proposed primary residence tax credits could depress North Dakota's real estate markets.

Sen. Mark Weber, a Republican from Casselton, talked about his role in this process as the chair of the Finance and Tax committee, which will need to sort through these bills. Weber represents a largely rural area, and said that the owners of farm land are worried about being left out in the cold on property tax relief. In some rural areas, the bulk of property taxes are paid by a relatively small number of land owners. Is that fair? And what sort of a situation are we creating if a small number of voters, who don't pay the property tax thanks to the state's primary residence credits, can vote to raise taxes on a much smaller number of land-owning voters who do?

"Everybody should pay a little property tax," Sen. Weber said.

He also expressed frustration with the number of bills introduced this legislative session, which close to a record for the last 20 years. "I think we are introducing entirely too many bills in the legislature," he said.

"If we had less bills we could have more meaningful debates," he added.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota.

Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It's super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you're from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Pocket Casts | Episode Archive