While the showdown continues over Trump's military deployment against Los Angeles protestors, can we take heart from the resurgence of anti-Trump liberalism in Canada, Australia, the U.K. and Europe? Could the Democrats capture that energy? If the culture has moved on from "wokeness", then what's the next paradigm for the Left? How should we think about immigration, multiculturalism, infrastructure, abundance, Obama’s legacy, and big-vs-small government in the next chapter of American political life? And can it really be true that Mississippians are richer than Italians?

Yascha Mounk is one of Josh's favourite thinkers on how to hold liberal democracies together in a destabilising time.

Yascha will rejoin Josh on a Szeps Live Substack Livestream next Tuesday June 17th at 9pm ET to answer your questions about this conversation (11am Sydney-time on Wed 18th). Be sure you're subscribed to notifications here to stay abreast of all the additional content - it's free to watch (but comments are only for paid subscribers).

This interview was recorded before the Los Angeles protests. Enjoy this sanity-inducing chat about the state of liberalism in 2025 and beyond.

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