We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your March Indulgence Gospel.

We’re doing an old-fashioned listener question episode because those are really everyone’s favorite (at least they are our favorite!). So if you’ve ever wondered:

• How to talk to a kid who only cares about being beautiful?

• Whether it’s okay to feed your children Paleo Waffles?

• Is wanting to lose weight always because of the patriarchy?

• How Virginia really feels about single mom travel?

• ARE THERE ANY COMFORTABLE JEANS?

We got you! (Yes, really on the jeans!!!)

This is a paywalled episode. That means to hear the whole thing you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscriptions are $5 per month or $50 for the year. Or you can join Extra Butter for just $99 for the year—which includes a monthly live chat and even more Indulgence Gospel, plus a comp subscription to Cult of Perfect.

This transcript contains affiliate links. Shopping our links is another great way to support Burnt Toast!

Corinne

Well, what’s new with pants?

Virginia

Well, I’m wearing new pants. I’m wearing them right now! I bought the Universal Standard jeans that you instructed me to buy, so I needed to come back and report to the group because everyone needs closure on that journey. 

So, I ended up keeping the Etta High Rise Straight Leg Jeans. And then I went a little rogue—this was not when you told me to buy, but it was a similar style. It’s the Elliot Mid Rise Tuxedo Stripe Jeans. It’s called “tuxedo” because there’s a cute selvedge edge on the side of the jeans, like a tuxedo stripe on tuxedo pants. I’m currently wearing those and I’ve been wearing them both. They are so comfy.

These are comfortable jeans. The unicorn does exist. Corinne did not lie to us. But it’s a big adjustment for me. Aesthetically, I’m still I’m still figuring it out. 

Corinne

You sent me a photo of you wearing the tuxedo ones and they looked great! I was tempted to buy them right on the spot.

Virginia

You already have all the Universal Standard jeans, but the little stripe is fun. 

The thing I will say if you are, like me, coming from skinny jeans land, if you are an older millennial who has been in your skinny jeans for 15 years, however long it has been: This is a mental shift we have to make to the idea that our calves are no longer encased in denim. They describe this as a straight leg, but I feel like I’m basically wearing bell bottoms. It feels like so much fabric.  I’m willing to say that because of coming from skinny jeans land, I’m not sure I’m having an accurate assessment. I’m saying because of my previous context, my calves feel free.

Corinne

It does feel really different. 

Virginia

I enjoy it. But they’re a little swishy?

Corinne

I’ve been thinking that I might need a wider leg pair.

Virginia

You just keep raising the bar. My question with a wider leg is—we’ve talked about this. I can’t go back to the 90s, and my jeans dragging in the mud. 

Corinne

Yeah, I feel like they have to be like cropped enough that they’re not dragging on the ground. 

Virginia

Ah yes. This is why you need the ankle length ones so your shoes aren’t stepping on your pant leg.

Corinne

The slush would crawl up the legs of your pants. 

Virginia

You can see why skinny jeans felt like the answer for a long time. I will confess I did also keep a pair of Universalist Standard skinny jeans as emotional support pants.

Corinne

That’s fair.

Virginia

But I haven’t even worn them yet! I forgot they were even in my closet. It’s just like, if I need a formal wear jean, I need a skinny jean. I understand jeans aren’t supposed to be formal wear.

Corinne

I’ve been watching Real Housewives of New York because Jenna Lyons is on the most recent season, a gay icon. And she wears jeans all the time in formal wear settings.

Virginia

But she’s Jenna Lyons. I think the rules are different.

Corinne

Just as an example of jeans as formal wear. 

Virginia

Important trailblazing is being done. 

Corinne

Yes. I know every time we talk about straight leg or wide leg jeans, you’re like, “but what shoes do I wear?” So what shoes have you been wearing?

Virginia

I’m still figuring that out. I really liked them with my Veja sneakers. So do I need more Veja sneakers? Is this a gateway drug? 

Corinne

Yes.

Virginia

They don’t work with my Nisolo boots. I have my Nisolo chelsea boots I love but they are just too little of a shoe. It makes me realize the skinny jean tyranny goes all the way down to your feet.

So for now I’m doing Vejas. And I do have these Target clog boots that have a chunky sole and I need to try that out. That might be kind of fun? I feel like a clog could work too as we get into spring. 

I’m still figuring it out, but I like them. I’m wearing them today with a Universal Standard turtleneck and I’ve also liked them with a big oversized sweater. I can even do the millennial tuck if I want because there’s room for my shirt in my pants. 

Corinne

As it should be. 

Virginia

 These are basically like pajama pants in denim. 

Corinne

Because they fit right. 

Virginia

But again, if you’ve come from skinny jeans, you’re going to think they’re too big.

Oh, and I did also have to size down in the Ettas as like you said. I did not need to size down in the tuxedo pants. So I definitely recommend people order a couple of sizes because the roominess of them and they do stretch a little bit as you wear them. By the second or third wear they’re starting to slide down my hips a little bit. That’s alright. The dryer is there for you.

Corinne

Yes. I got the 100 percent cotton ones and I ordered those in two sizes. When I first tried them on, I thought I was going to keep the smaller pair. Then I ended up keeping the bigger ones and I just wore them out for the first time. When I was driving home after wearing them, I was like, wow I need to unbutton these. This is not comfortable. So, verdict is still out on those.

Virginia

All right.  Well, our first question is pants adjacent as well.

This listener would like to know if we have suggestions for brands that do plus size tall pants, because all tall sizes seem to stop at 20.

This is a perennial fat fashion challenge, which is that brands are under the illusion that fat people are only between the heights of 5’4” and 5’7”. We are never shorter and we are never taller, 

Corinne

Like all people, we come in all the heights.

I mean, neither of us are tall so this isn’t a situation where I have a lot of personal experience, but I do know some stuff from running SellTradePlus. Both Torrid and Lane Bryant have tall sections or long inseam pants. So those definitely exist. I think Old Navy does stop at 20 for tall, but they used to go to 30. So you can search Poshmark or eBay for vintage tall Old Navy. Universal Standard also has some long inseams—I think they go up to 32” (also 33” and 34” only in certain styles.) If you go to Target on a web browser, like an actual computer, you can filter by inseam and size. So you should be able to see exactly what they have in your size and inseam.

Virginia

That is very helpful and check back often because Target sells out all the time, but restocks all the time.

Corinne

Then for like smaller brand stuff, Big Bud Press, their regular stuff runs pretty tall, like a lot of it is too long for me. Then they also have some styles in long inseams, but you just kind of have to search through. I don’t think there’s a good way of filtering for it and they don’t have like a tall section. I also know that Alder Apparel, their Open Air pants have in a longer inseam option. And Fashion Brand Company makes a jean that I have not tried but also has a long or tall inseam and I think goes up to like a 4x. And I have no idea how those fit, but I would be curious to try.

Virginia

This is some good intel. We will also link to the recent fat fashion concierge because there was a discussion specifically about tall overalls, but people chimed in with some other stuff. So we will link to that. That’s always a good place to post these specific fashion requests.

Corinne

Niche requests.

Virginia

All right. I will read the next question, because I think you will have more insights on this one. This person says:

Grandpa says fatphobic stuff. We talk about it, but with early dementia, he truly forgets. Any ideas?

Corinne

Okay, so my dad, who died in 2020, had dementia so I can really relate to this. My grandmother also had dementia and I do remember her telling me I really shouldn’t be wearing horizontal stripes. 

Virginia

Oh, Grandma. 

Corinne

This one is tough because there’s actually not really anything you can do. You’re not going to be able to change this person’s behavior. Like, they’re losing brain cells. They’re losing executive function. And they’re not going to change their behavior. So I think what you should focus on is doing whatever you need to do to take care of yourself and the other people around you that it could be affecting.

If that means that when he says stuff, you want to respond to it, I think you can. But I would also say if it’s exhausting to keep trying to correct him or have a conversation with this person about fatphobia, I think it’s also fine to ignore it. And it’s fine for you to be like, I need to remove myself for a little bit. 

It’s basically just about what kind of stuff can you do to support yourself? And if there is anyone else that it could be affecting.

Virginia

I was wondering if maybe this person is anxious about going out in public and comments being made when other folks wouldn’t understand the context.

Corinne

That is the trickiest situation. Like when you’re like, in a restaurant is he making comments to the servers or something. It’s a test of your own like stuff really. Can you tolerate that or not? And if you can’t, then don’t put yourself in the situation if you can help it!

Virginia

I like the idea of just centering, what do you need? And giving yourself a lot of grace. This sounds really challenging. You don’t need to be getting an A+ on fat activism while visiting your grandpa. Your relationship, and having a good time with him while you can—all of that matters a lot more. I don’t have as much direct experience with that as Corinne, but my Grandma Betty had dementia before she died. It’s just so hard to see someone you love so much slipping away. I think if I had been overly focused in the times we had together with trying to navigate this other issue that’s not really about your relationship… Have a good time with them while you can.

Corinne

I think also reminding yourself they’re not doing it to piss you off, even though it might feel that way. They probably don’t have a lot of control over it. 

Virginia

Yeah, just getting whatever support you need in place. Maybe it’s a friend you’re going to text after you see him and just download all the feelings about whatever things he says that are problematic or triggering. Just giving you an outlet, setting that up ahead of time so you have that support. 

Corinne

That’s good advice. 

Okay, let me read the next one. 

Is wanting to lose weight always because of the patriarchy, and/or diet culture, and/or disordered eating?

Virginia

I mean, it doesn’t always only come from those things. But I think those things are always in play. 

Corinne

I think it’s sort of like, how could those things not be in play? Because that’s the water we’re swimming in. 

Virginia

This is a bias we’ve all internalized because of growing up in a fatphobic culture and patriarchy. You can’t untangle your concerns about your health, your concerns about having access to clothing, your concerns about fitting into public spaces. You can’t untangle all of that from the bias that is making all of that so difficult. It’s always both. When we try to make it only about this other thing, that’s when we’re doing a real disservice to fat folks in general. And to the concept of fat activism. 

It’s okay to say, “I have this desire to lose weight, this is what’s right for me because of X,Y, and Z reasons,” and pursue that, if that’s what you really think makes sense for you. But do that with the knowledge that you are using this as a survival strategy in an anti-fat patriarchal culture that’s making it so difficult for your body to be bigger.

Corinne

Right. You can’t make a decision to lose weight or not lose weight in a vacuum, just because of the time and place we exist. These things are always going to be part of any decision we make.

Virginia

We will link to what remains, other than my divorce essay, the most popular piece on Burnt Toast—The “what if I just don’t want to be fat?” question. It’s the question we all have. It’s so relatable. And yeah, it’s so steeped in bias. We have to name that as well. 

Corinne

I’m going to read the next one because it’s about children.

My three-year-old values beauty above everything else. How do I help her not judge herself and others based on appearance?

Virginia

I want to come at this from a few different places.

First: Where is she getting this message that beauty is so important? Is it something you’re modeling? Is it something other adults in her life are modeling? Is it just the fact that you have a little girl and as the parent of two girls, I know every time I go into public with them, somebody tells them they’re beautiful. Because they are girls who currently meet various beauty standards, and so their entire lives, every waitress in a diner, every nurse in a doctor’s office, every dental technician, the people that they see, will say, “What a pretty shirt. Oh, you look so pretty today. Oh, I love your hair.” And this is the onslaught of messaging girls get.

And yes, I always push back and say, “And she’s very smart!” or just switch the conversation and change tactics. I have a whole set of strategies for how I navigate those comments. I know that our family’s values matter more, but of course, those comments are still landing. So I think it’s good to think through where is she getting this?

Next, consider how much validation is she getting for caring so much about this? Like, if she is in a princess costume, is she getting more validation than when she’s like, in a T-shirt and shorts? Is that something you can look at in terms of how you and your immediate family interact with her?

All of which is to say, it’s also okay that she thinks being beautiful is important. And if you come at it like, we’re going to shut this down, you’re only going to make it way worse. You’re only going to dig her in way deeper on this.

Corinne

How can you reframe what is beautiful for a three-year-old? Can you be sure that your three-year-old knows that you think fat people are beautiful? Or people that are outside of conventional beauty standards?

Virginia

Gender nonconforming folks? 

Corinne

Also, there are so many things that we think are beautiful that aren’t people or bodies! Like moss or trees.

Virginia

“I know you love Barbie, but have you considered moss?”

Corinne

Yeah, but also have you? I don’t know.

Virginia

I mean it is exquisite. 

Corinne

Kids love animals! Animals are beautiful! I think it’s okay to like stuff that you think is beautiful, but how can we expand what is beautiful beyond you looking like a princess, I guess?

Virginia

No, I love that. I was thinking the same thing, I think.Is this e a craving for color? Is this a craving for glittery things? You can enjoy color, you can enjoy glitter, you can enjoy bold aesthetic things. And food—you can eat fun cupcakes. You can have flowers in your garden. You can take this beyond her body and how she looks. And I think that’s really important!

It’s important to give kids of all genders a chance to explore dress up and playing around with all of this. If it’s makeup, is it makeup where we’re making you look like a tiger, as well as doing lipstick and blush? So she’s still getting that craving for color and texture and that craving for beauty met but in a less adhering-to-beauty-ideals way.

I think back to Peggy Orenstein’s book Cinderella Ate My Daughter: Dispatches from the Front Lines of the New Girlie-Girl Culture which I think does totally hold up and is worth the read. All of Peggy Orenstein’s writing on girl culture is really helpful. But her message in that one was: Fight fun with fun. You’re never going to win if you’re trying to shut down the Disney princess brigade. Their marketing is too powerful. But she talked about getting her daughter sneakers with lightning bolts on them.

And I think that’s been my approach, as a parent. We’ve never banned princess stuff. I painted both their nurseries pink in different ways because I like the color pink. Not because I wouldn’t have done it if I had a boy, too. I just like pink. But I was aware, I’m using pink and I’m having girls. So I never banned anything, but other things were also always on the table.

And the result is, on our vacation someone said something like, “What pretty girls you have!” And I looked at both of them and nobody had brushed their hair in I don’t know how many days and they were reading a book about sharks and discussing which kind of shark will eat you the fastest. And I was like, “Yes this is beautiful.” 

Corinne

I was also wondering if some of this is developmental stage stuff. Because I feel like, at least in our culture, most girls go through something where they’re into dolls. Girls that are into beauty or Barbies or whatever can still grow into adults who aren’t overly focused on that.

Virginia

I think that’s completely true. I think three and four are ages where kids get very rigid and binary about gender. The reason is not that gender is essential or biological or any of that. It’s just that kids are developmentally understanding that they are a body separate from their parents at this point. And they’re not really clear on whether gender is something that you can take on and off—which of course it is, right?

But for a three year old leaning into, “I’m a girl I like all these girly things,” it can just be a way of understanding, a way of getting her arms around it. It’s not necessarily going to be her full time gender identity. It’s then of course, very reinforced at school where things are very binary, like “line up boys and girls.” There’s so much here we need to push back on to give kids a lot more options. But yes, three and four are the ages where you see kids start pairing off by gender on the playground. 

There are a couple of books I can link to in the show notes. There’s one called Sparkle Boy about a brother and a sister who both love sparkly things. That’s a fun one to read. Julian Is A Mermaid is another beautiful one. Books that show that you can love beauty and not be a girl. You know, just kind of explode some of those concepts. I think it is really good to start introducing at these ages. It may not all click at once, but it will help them enjoy this but also start to expand your thinking.

Corinne

All right. I’ll read the next one too.

Do you think it's a problem to feed weird Paleo-bro-type packaged foods to my 3 year old, even if they are not accompanied by ANY Paleo diet culture? 

Basically, I had to avoid some foods short term for medical reasons and ended up buying one of those everything-free "no-carb" cereals and actually it tastes pretty good. My kid saw me eating it, and now he likes it too. And we shop at this hippie grocery store where he saw some frozen chocolate chip waffles and wanted them. So we got them and it turns out they're made of cassava and avocado or something. It kind of disturbs me to feed him foods that are pretending to be carbs but not made of carbs because I'm worried it will confuse his body/taste buds about what food is, but if he likes them and is still eating pasta at other meals maybe it's fine? Help!

Virginia

I want to be clear that these are two different parents of three-year-olds. We don’t have one poor three-year-old, obsessed with being beautiful and Paleo waffles.

Corinne

Parents of three-year-olds need help.

Virginia

Parents of three-year-olds are not okay. 

Corinne

And that’s fair.

Virginia

It’s a really hard age. I feel mostly fine about this. What are your thoughts? 

Corinne

I feel mostly fine about it, too. Although I can definitely understand the stress. 

Virginia

I would make a point of buying regular Eggo frozen chocolate chip waffles—a staple of my household—and maybe have both and letting him taste test and see what he likes better. You know, just for fun. Not to pit them against each other, but just like, oh, there are a lot of different chocolate chip waffles. Like, let’s try some and see what we like. I’m guessing Eggo will win because it’s awesome? I could be wrong.

If you’re still eating these foods as your kid is older and as they’re reading and they notice things on the package, you might want to have some conversations. I did, since my kids know that I don’t believe in diets and diets are bad and they kind of get all that and then I drink my Diet Coke. There are sometimes moments where one of them will be like, really? Are you a liar? 

Virginia

So if you like the cereal, but there’s problematic marketing on the package, just talk about it. It’s a great jumping off point of like, how silly if we think this cereal is delicious why do they need to label it this way to sell it? Why don’t they just sell it as a delicious cereal? I think that totally works.

Alright.

How do I practice fat allyship when I am ostensibly straight-sized and hating my body but loving others?

Corinne

Get a therapist and keep it to yourself.

Virginia

Corinne is not in the mood!

Corinne

Is that too harsh? I don’t know.

Virginia

I’m stuck on “‘ostensibly’ straight-sized.”

Corinne

wow, I didn’t even pick up on that. 

Virginia

Like, they know that they’re straight size but they don’t feel that way? It is a fairly binary state. I mean, you can be plus size in some brands and some brands you can’t, I guess. The mid size queen of it all?

But yeah, I think it’s how are you standing up for fat people? How are you calling out non-inclusive seating. How are you looking for diet culture in your kids curriculums and reaching out to the school? There are a thousand ways to be a good ally and none of them have anything to do with how you feel about your body. 

Corinne

 I do want to say, like, it sucks. It’s a hard place to be when you feel like you’re hating yourself. And also, there is other stuff you can do.

Virginia

If you are “ostensibly straight-sized,” the world is still built for your body. There are ways in which you have privilege here. It’s good to recognize that. We do sound a little harsh and we feel for this person. It is a terrible place to be, in hating your body. But yeah, I think it’s the framing of someone recognizing they have thin privilege, but then getting in their own way a little bit, I guess.

Corinne

I think the first step also is realizing the fact that you feel bad about your body is still part of anti-fat bias, you know? You have a stake in this. If you’re feeling bad about yourself, you have stakes in fighting against anti-fat bias. So there you go. You’re invested.

Virginia

This is how I feel whenever Glennon Doyle does an eating disorder episode and completely forgets to name anti-fat bias as part of that experience. I mean, she’s had Aubrey Gordon on. Aubrey did a fantastic job on her episode. She’s had Sonya Renee Taylor on. And then, every other time they talk about the eating disorder, it’s just no acknowledgement of thin privilege.

Okay. The next question is for Corinne. This person says,

I’ve never done lifting of any kind, but I think it would feel good. How do you start? Gyms feels scary. 

We’ll link to the episode where you gave a lot of advice on navigating gyms. And also the Jesse Diaz Herrera episode, we talked about that. So we’re not going to talk about the gym part so much, because we’ve done that. But yeah, starting lifting. How do you start?

Corinne

Well, lifting does feel good, so you’re right about that. My advice for starting is get help. Either hire a coach, which is what I do and I love it and it feels very worth it to me. Or get a friend to start with you so you have support in that way. I also did that. I started with a friend and it made a huge difference. You could also look into Casey Johnston’s She’s a Beast program called Lift Off. That is a guide for getting started lifting and you start at home and eventually move into a gym. 

Virginia

You did that, right? I remember us talking about it.

Corinne

I started doing it and then I just like very quickly moved on to having a coach. But the program has good advice for navigating getting yourself into a gym.

The kind of gym that you end up choosing can really affect your experience. Like the kind of gym that I go to, I don’t think I ever would have been comfortable going to alone. 

Virginia

Interesting.

Corinne

It’s just kind of a specialized place and it feels very intimidating to me. Even though I hate that that’s true. I would feel comfortable going to a YMCA alone or a different type of gym. So that’s my advice. What’s your advice?

Virginia

Well, as someone who doesn’t powerlift, but did recently graduate—I’m going to use numbers, trigger warning—from using five pound weights to using ten pound weights on a lot of the Lauren Leavell workouts.

Corinne

That’s awesome. Just to be clear, there are still certain exercises where I would use 10 pound weights!! 

Virginia

Okay, but they’re not the ones that I’m using ten pound weights for. Are they a bicep curl?

Corinne

Mmm, no. But they are dumbbell exercises.

Virginia

I still have to use my five pound weights for shoulder things like this. 

Corinne

Yeah, this is really hard. I’m using 10 pounds for that. 

Virginia

We’re doing like lateral—what do you call that? 

Corinne

Fly.

Virginia

Your arms are straight out to the side and you lift.

Corinne

Or straight in front.

Virginia

Oh, god, that’s awful. I still use five pounds for that. But yeah, I love it so much. I don’t think I will ever go full powerlifter, but it has been tremendous for managing back pain. I didn’t lift all this week while I was on vacation and by the end of the week, my back was like, we don’t like you anymore.

Corinne

Wow. That’s amazing. 

Virginia

It’s cool. It’s empowering. It’s great. I think Corinne has much better advice for someone who wants to get into serious lifting. But if you’re just a little lifting curious, Lauren’s workouts are legit. You will work every muscle group. 

I have a really dumb powerlifting question, which is, do you only work on the three moves or do you do other moves when you go for a workout? 

Corinne

It kind of depends on your programming, like what your goal is. You’re basically always working on trying to get better at the main three moves, which are squatting, deadlifting, and bench pressing. But you could be doing variations of those lifts. We usually do programming in three month blocks or something. So at the beginning, you’re not trying to max out the weight, you’re doing more reps at a lower weight or whatever. And then you slowly work up to doing a max. But then I’m also always doing accessories, which are the dumbbell stuff. And some cardio stuff and stuff like that. 

Virginia

It’s a whole world.

Corinne

Yeah. That’s another great benefit of working with a coach, they take care of all of that. I’m never having to figure out what I am doing.

Virginia

Yeah, workout mental load is huge. Outsourcing that is everything. 

Corinne

It’s so great. I love it.

Virginia

I don’t want to make a single decision. I just want to follow instructions. 

Corinne

Exactly. 

Virginia

I can’t imagine wanting to plan a workout for myself.

Corinne

No, and if you’re already feeling intimidated by the gym, trying to plan stuff yourself that you haven’t done before or something? I could never. I would just avoid stuff.

Virginia

So yeah, get help. Get support.

We’ll also link to we’d like to

Julia Turshen

excellentessay about her powerlifting journey. She really broke down step-by-step how she found her coach and the different workouts. I learned a ton. And if you start lifting report back. We want to hear about it. 

Corinne

Alright, Virginia, we would love to hear why you love single mom travel.

Virginia

And this person said they’re nervous to do it. And I totally get that. I just got back from a few days in Aruba with my daughters, and my sister came, too, and it was amazing. 

Corinne

Have you been there before?

Virginia

No, it was my first time going to Aruba. It’s very chill. It’s just beautiful beaches from what I could tell. Obviously, I’m acknowledging various forms of privilege that make travel possible in my life. 

But that was my second solo trip with them. The first was the trip to Lake George last summer, which I wrote about. I fully expected to sort of hate it. Like, actually, as the marriage was ending, one of the things I mourned for was we as foursome traveled a lot. And I was like, I’m not going to travel with them anymore. Like, that’s just going to be over. I don’t really know why I thought that except travel with kids is a lot of logistics. You have to be the parent of the trip all the time, you know? And so I think I just thought it’ll feel hard and overwhelming. 

I want to say, if your kids are five and under, it is going to be hard and overwhelming. If you have to fly with a carseat, it’s a whole other level. And it’s fine to wait, I think. I don’t think 18 month olds are building a lot of useful travel skills. You’re just enduring. But at six and ten, my kids can wheel their own suitcase through the airport and carry their own backpacks. And not whine too much about walking. They whine when we stand in a long line, but maybe then get out a book and sit and read. All of that makes it much more doable. 

But I just love having a new adventure with them. It gives us just more things to talk about, like funny experiences that happen. There’s ways when you’re in the day-to-day grind of parenting, when it’s just like get your backpack ready for school, did we do homework, is it time for bed. There are moments of connection on a vacation or in any kind of travel situation that can be really wonderful. I mean, there is all the usual kid hassle too. Don’t get me wrong. 

But what was interesting to me about doing it solo is that what wasn’t there was spouse conflict. And I want to be clear, my kids’ dad and I actually traveled pretty well together. He’s very adventurous, we both prioritize travel. But there’s this thing where you’re feeling like you’re responsible for everybody’s happiness and when one of the people is another adult—and I think he was probably feeling similarly—there’s just a chafing that can happen there. And when it’s just me and the kids, there’s a freedom of like, yeah, we’re just going to eat ice cream for dinner and not have a conversation about it. Or I’m going to give you extra iPad time and not feel guilty about it. You guys want to sleep in my bed? Great. Nobody is going to be grumpy about it. You can just call the shots make the decisions and it’s awesome. So, two thumbs up.

Corinne

That sounds great. 

Virginia

I think if you’re nervous about it, pick somewhere local-ish to start. Look for ways to make it easy. We did do an all-inclusive resort this time which is not my default mode of travel at all. But past family vacations often involved getting an Airbnb and then somebody has to figure out how to feed everybody every meal of the day. And if that somebody is you, then you’re not really on vacation. So opting for experiences where the part that doesn’t feel like a vacation to you can be mitigated. 

Corinne

That makes sense.

Okay, here are the houseplant questions.

My snake plant is drooping. Is it too tall or overwatered?

Virginia

I think it’s overwatered and/or in too small of a pot. I don’t think it’s too tall because the plants can handle being tall. They don’t usually need to be staked. But if it’s in too small of a pot, it’s crowded in its pot, you’ll start to get them splaying out. They don’t want a lot of water, they definitely want to dry out between waterings. 

Also, I know everyone loves a snake plant because it can do low light. But they will bloom if you put them in bright light, which is kind of mind blowing. So it could be if it’s gotten over watered, you could move it into a brighter spot if you have one. And that will let it dry out and perk up a little bit is my guess.

Corinne

Cool. Good advice. 

Okay, the next one is:

I live in a small space. Tips for displaying plants for max sunlight / plant happiness?

Virginia

I don’t know why size of your space is an issue! You can cram a lot of plants in anywhere. I would say if you have a nice window—I mean, I don’t know if this person is renting, this may not be an option. But if you have a nice window, putting a plant shelf in across the middle of it—and we can put up an old reel of the plant shelf that Dan built for my house. But it goes on my sunniest window, it goes along the middle of the window. It’s like, I don’t know, six inches wide at most. But it means that you can have a lot of pots all lined up and they’re going to get maximum sunlight. So that could be a fun way to do it. 

If you’re renting, I would do that and/or some kind of tiered plant stand where you can fit a lot of smaller pots in the footprint of maybe one bigger plant. Does that make sense? 

Corinne

That’s a good idea.

Virginia

Because plants really like to be grouped together, because then they make their own humidity. It’s much easier, I think, to take care of 12 plants all crowded together on a shelf than it is to take care of one fig tree that’s going to be a total prima donna.

Corinne

That’s a great point.

Virginia

What about you? You’ve got a good number of plants. 

Corinne

I have plants, but I just don’t care about them. I’m happy that they exist, but I just can’t worry about them. 

Virginia

That’s a good attitude. 

Corinne

I think of them as furniture. I just forget that they’re living things that need stuff. But it’s very sunny here, you know? And they’re mostly in one window.

Virginia

This feels like New Mexico Privilege to me. 

Corinne

I have an East-facing window over my kitchen sink and I had a bunch of plants in there and I had to take them all out because it actually gets too sunny and they were dying. I don’t have any great advice. 

Virginia

I’m excited for this person. I want a picture when you got lots of plants. 

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Virginia

My Butter today is Blue, the leopard gecko, and the journey we are on together. I realized I hadn’t told the story on the podcast yet and its important. Especially as it is still unfolding.

 A significant portion of my life is devoted to Gecko care. If you don’t follow me on Instagram, the short version of the story is last March, my older daughter got a pet leopard gecko named Blue. And they were very thrilled and taking really good care of it. Blue was a treasured member of our family. And then sometime in April or May, Blue disappeared and we could not find her anywhere.

We searched the entire house. We searched, we moved all the furniture out, like epic searching went on. Blue was nowhere. We don’t know what happened. My daughter thinks she put her down somewhere. It was heartbreaking. We grieved, we mourned. We finally realized after a few weeks that Blue was probably dead. 

And then last fall, my daughter asked for another Gecko for her birthday. And we adopted Cat, the gecko who came to live with us last September and has been doing great. 

Then cut to earlier this month when the girls are at Dan’s for the weekend and I am cleaning out my closet, which was very overdue. I moved a whole bunch of stuff, like suitcases, you know, the back of the closet where shit goes to die? I moved a bunch of stuff out and there is Blue, the leopard gecko who had survived in our house somehow for 10 months. 

Corinne

Wow. 

Virginia

This gecko lived— we don’t know how exactly. I mean, there’ are multiple theories. Is she a space traveler? Is she a time traveler? Did she live off stinkbugs? All very possible. There are a lot of those in my house.

So it was a very emotional weekend. I call Dan and get Violet on FaceTime and show her the gecko. We find a reptile vet, I pay an absurd amount of money to rush in with the gecko. She’s alive, but she’s undernourished. She’s half the size she should be and calcium depleted, like you can see she’s shaking. Her bones are fragile. But she was not dead! She was moving around pretty well and so we were sent home with calcium supplements and this special therapeutic diet for her.

Corinne

Oh my gosh.

Virginia

We now have to syringe feed her daily and that’s what we’ve been doing. My amazing petsitter Ally did that while we were on vacation last week because my daughter would have canceled the vacation if we didn’t have a Blue rehab program in place. 

The reason Blue was my butter is obviously she is an icon and a hero. But also, I’m actually pretty creeped out by tiny crawly things. I hate mice. I cannot deal with mice. And geckos are like a little rodent-like, they scurry. But I can pick up this gecko and syringe feed her because when Violet is at her dad’s, I have to do it all by myself.

Corinne

I’m loving that you have a pet that needs feeding therapy.

Virginia

The story of my life.

Corinne

Anti-diet geckos.

Virginia

Yeah, we’re fattening her up! We’ve got to get double her weight. I think she’s about ready to try eating on her own. I left a couple wax worms in her tank last night and they seem to be gone. I need to witness her eating before we can stop syringe feeding, but I think she ate the wax worms I put out. That was a test. Because you can’t re-feed too fast, right? So we started on 0.4 milliliters of food and we’ve been gradually increasing up to one whole milliliter now. 

Corinne

It’s time.

Virginia

I think you’re ready to feed yourself.

Corinne

So funny. I love Blue.

Virginia

She’s amazing. I think Cat, the other gecko, feels a little second fiddle. And rightfully so. But the other thing is, we apparently can’t house them in the same tank. 

Corinne

Oh, I was wondering. 

Virginia

If anyone has ever housed two female leopard geckos together, I would like to know how it went! But the vet was like, “I would be really cautious. We should run bloodwork and make sure Blue hasn’t picked up any communicable diseases.” I was like, in my closet?? 

Corinne

Wow, who knew they could do bloodwork on geckos?

Virginia

Oh, yeah. I have to return with a fecal sample soon.

Corinne

Oh, my gosh, wow. 

Virginia

It’s a whole situation. But anyway, what’s your Butter? 

Corinne

My butter is bran muffins.

Virginia

Ohhh, the ones you were posting? 

Corinne

Yes. I’ve been posting pictures of bran muffins on Instagram. 

Virginia

They look so good. 

Corinne

A couple of months ago, one of my friends was posting pictures of bran muffins on Instagram and linked to this recipe for bran muffins, which is a really weird recipe. It makes the hugest batch of muffins you ever could conceive of. I made half a recipe. 

The thing about it is you mix it up and then you leave it in your fridge and bake a few muffins for yourself every morning. It’s a really nice little routine to have and I think the batter lasts for two weeks or something.

I like bran muffins. They are an example of maybe a diet-y food that I actually really enjoy. And I think this recipe is like particularly good. It has molasses in it, so it has a really good flavor. 

Virginia

Yum, I was obsessed with the grocery store bran muffins when I was a kid. You know how grocery store bakeries will sometimes do one or two things just exceptionally well? Our grocery store had really good ones and I never recaptured the magic of that bran muffin. I want to try this recipe.

Corinne

I think bran muffins often just taste really sweet and delicious. 

Virginia

That’s what I’m looking for. 

Corinne

And they’re a good vehicle for butter and jam and all of that stuff. But yeah, I really enjoy these bran muffins.

Virginia

I’m definitely going make them. That sounds so good. 

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The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!