Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!

It’s time for your March Extra Butter. This month we’re answering a reader question about baggy, black clothes. Then Virginia takes Corinne down a rabbit hole to unpack the rainbow produce, and subtle food- and fat-shaming, of Kids Eat in Color.

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Extra Butter Episode 5 Transcript

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Corinne

Okay, we're going to start today with a listener question, and then we're going to dive into one of the influencers that you all ask us about most often. 

Virginia

You might call her the Ballerina Farm of kid food influencing. I'm really proud of that little teaser there, just so you know. 

Corinne

It's pretty good and I'm really excited because I have no idea who this is.

Virginia

I can't wait. 

Corinne

Okay, I'm going to read the listener question first.

Do I genuinely like baggy black comfy clothes or is it fatphobia?

Virginia

This is a very good question.

Corinne

Wait, I have a follow up question. Do you wear baggy black comfy clothes? Because you seem like a very colorful dresser.

Virginia

Yes, I am a very colorful dresser, although that is in large part due to the work I did with to realize I wanted to be a colorful dresser. But I definitely go through baggy clothes versus non-baggy clothes seasons.

Corinne

I am in a season of embracing black because I love wearing black but the color seasons thing told me that I shouldn't wear black. 

Virginia

Wait. Did you get your colors done?

Corinne

I didn't get them done, but sometime last year, I got obsessed with the Color Me Beautiful thing because of TikTok. And I was like, “Oh, everything I buy needs to be soft summer,” which is muted cool tones. 

Virginia

Yeah, I think I'm soft summer, too. Well. Maybe not with this current hair color.

Corinne

I never would have known. But yeah, I actually like black and maybe it does make me look washed out, but who cares?

Virginia

I have had Color Me Beautiful on my list of essays to do forever. You know I was like a hardcore Color Me Beautiful disciple in middle school?

Corinne

I was also into it at that age. Only because my friend's mom had the book.

Virginia

My mom also had the book. We did our colors, and then for my birthday she got me this little wallet-size book of all of my colors, which could carry around. We were in deep and I'm just like, how is this trend back, in this day?

Corinne

At what point did you let it go?

Virginia

I think it was Angela Chase who liberated me. It was hard to want both the flannel shirt, Doc Martens thing and be a soft summer. 

Corinne

Yes, and only wear light blue. I can really really see that.

Virginia

It worked fine for when I was in my Jane Austen phase. There was a period of a high school where I tried to dress like a Jane Austen character as much as possible. 

Corinne

Wow. We might need the photographic evidence.

Virginia

I did learn to sew a reticule during that era. I think maybe that's why I don't sew anymore? Because it's really hard to sew a reticule. 

Corinne

Yeah, that seems fair.

Virginia

And then when I went to college. And I went to NYU and you can't go to NYU and not wear black. They won’t let you. You can't show up at NYU in your pastels, not in 1999. 

Corinne

Well and it feels now, like among people who are into slow fashion and stuff, baggy black linen clothes are very in. 

Virginia

I think that baggy black clothes have been very chic for a long time. It's a very minimalist look, the linen sack dress sort of situation.

Corinne

Your wide leg black linen pants, and your black linen tunic.

Virginia

On the question of is it fatphobia, I can read it two ways. I have had times where my internalized fatphobia has only wanted to hide my body in lots of big clothes and I have had times where my internalized fatphobia has made me wear more fitted things because wearing the big baggy thing made me look bigger.

So I don't know that it's fatphobia for this person? Because it was good for me to reclaim giant dresses and be like, I like wearing a mumu. This is great. I don't care if it makes me look physically larger, I love taking up space in a big mumu.

What has your journey been on the baggy thing? 

Corinne

There's something not fatphobic about just embracing clothes as practical or comfortable. And I do think that baggy-ish black clothes are comfortable and practical. So if that's why you're doing it, I don't think that's fatphobic. 

But personally, I think I've always tended more towards the baggy stuff. Or, well, I don't know, I guess I've always worn both? I like baggy clothes. And I also like, tight clothes. I don't know, I can't say. 

It's true, baggy clothes are more practical in some contexts and less practical in others. I actually recently realized that sometimes at the gym—I usually wear a baggy t-shirt to the gym—and recently I was like actually, sometimes it's helpful to not be wearing the baggiest shirt you own.

Virginia

Well, and when you do your powerlifting meets, you wear a singlet which is the opposite of baggy. So clearly there is a function!

Corinne

Sometimes a shirt can be so baggy that it's getting in your way, when you're trying to move.

Virginia

You don’t want to be thinking about it flopping around while you lift all of the weight off the floor. 

Corinne

And I have a very nice kind of “oversized” denim shirt that I recently ripped because it caught on a nail I was walking by. And then I was like, “Maybe this is too oversized if it's catching on nails as I sweep by them.”

Virginia

Just picturing you sweeping down a hall in a giant denim thing. 

Corinne

Tight clothes have a place, too, is all I’m trying to say.

Virginia

This person also didn't say if they're straight-sized or fat. I definitely think for fat people, wearing oversized clothes can be a reclaiming because I do think that's something we're steered away from. And there's also a thing about wanting to hide your body sometimes. Maybe you work a job or are going to your kids’ school or just like having your body in a place where focus on your body doesn't feel relevant or helpful. So maybe there's some comfort in the baggy clothes, because you're like, “I am not showing up here as a body to be displayed.” That seems valid to me, to just want that comfort sometimes. 

And in the process of working towards feeling better in your body, clothes that don't require you to think about your physical body can be helpful. It isn't fun to sit in pants where the waistband is cutting in. When I am working, I don't want to think about how my clothes are fitting, right? Because I want to get my work done. I don't want to think my pants feel tight or this shirt is stiff and riding up weirdly. So my work from home clothes are definitely often on the baggier side or the stretchier side. I don't want to be aware of them.

It can be practical. It can be about your discomfort with your body and needing to sort of have some space from it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are practicing fatphobia.

Corinne

Do we want to come down on one side or the other in answering this question? 

Virginia

I don’t thinking we can come down on one side or the other because the question is only one sentence and we don't know enough about this. I don't think we can say for you, listener, if this is fatphobia. There are some questions to ask about your relationship with baggy black clothes. Is it because you're hiding your body? If so, what is making you want to hide your body? That is something to explore. Is it that these are just comfortable clothes? If so, why would that be a problem? Is there a feeling like, do I have permission to wear baggy clothes? Well, then by all means, please lean in.

Do you feel more strongly about one side or the other? 

Corinne

I would say, given no context, no, I don't think that liking baggy, black, comfy clothes is fatphobic.

Virginia

We're pro baggy, black, comfy clothes. We are definitely pro comfy clothes. 

Corinne

Definitely pro wearing what feels comfortable.

So what’s the deal with Kids Eat In Color?

Virginia

Okay Corinne, it is timefor me to introduce you to Kids Eat in Color. Do you really have no idea who this person is? 

Corinne

My only context for this is that you've mentioned them before when talking about Kid Food Instagram. So I've seen posts, but I don't know who this person is. And I don't follow their work at all.

Virginia

That’s valid. You don't have kids to feed. Why would you do that?

So the reason I said she was like the Ballerina Farm of the kid food Instagram is, this is someone with 1.9 million followers. Granted, Ballerina Farm has like 10 million followers now. But for Kid Food Instagram, she's a major player. And this is the account when people in mom chats, in mom Facebook groups, whenever people are like, “I’m struggling with how to feed my kid.” The first suggestion that comes up is, “Do you know Kids Eat in Color?” So she is considered a foremost—I'm using air quotes—expert on how we feed our kids.

Corinne

And she is a nutritionist? Or? 

Virginia

She is. Jennifer Anderson has a Master's of Science in Public Health from Johns Hopkins. And she has an RDN, which stands for registered dietitian nutritionist. She founded Kids Eat in Color in 2019 as “an authority on research that helps families feed their children from their first bite of solid food through picky eating and elementary aged nutrition needs.”

Her bio on Instagram is: “Help your picky kid eat veggies and have a good relationship with food! How to help kids try foods & what to feed them.”

And an interesting thing to know about her background is that prior to starting this, Anderson was coordinating youth nutrition programs at a food bank and researching inner city food deserts, and also a consultant for the USDA Food Stamps education programs. So she has this public health experienc, which is interesting. She also references cultural anthropology as being part of her background. 

So something we need to understand right off the bat is that this is a very thin white woman who has been specializing in how to feed poor kids. An we need people to think harder about how to feed poor kids, but public health does have a problematic history of white saviors, and thin white people in particular coming into low income brown and black neighborhoods and thinking that they can “solve” the ob*sity crisis, without necessarily talking to the people in those neighborhoods about what they need and what will help them. And that might show up in a couple of Instagram posts we're going to look at.

Okay, so click on the first Instagram link I put in the outline and tell us what you see.

Corinne

I see a photo, a very colorful photo of some food. The title says “airplane food” and it's almost like a little like pill container with each little hole filled with a different snacky thing. Very tiny quantities of Lara bar, blueberries, apples, peas, dates, bell pepper, chocolate candies, cashews, pepitas, elderberry, gummies, coconut, strawberries, O’s, and carrots.

Virginia

This is what I would call Classic Kids Eat in Color. This post was from November 2023 but she was repurposing it. I have seen this since the beginning of her content. And it’s a post that is purporting to solve a problem. You are flying on an airplane with your toddler and you need to bring them snacks. Instead of just packing, I don't know—like I would grab some bags of Cheez-Its and some cheese sticks or whatever— she has put together this incredibly beautiful box of elaborate things, with a whole array of different foods.

Corinne

It's not like you're just bringing an apple. It's like you're bringing tiny apple cubes. What did you do with the rest of the apple? Because it's three tiny, tiny apple cubes that would fill up a pill container.

Virginia

That’s a good question. You'll also notice the carrots are cut into star shapes. 

Corinne

Yes, I did notice.

Virginia

You'll also notice that she doesn't just list the foods, she provides a reason why she's packing it. For example, eating a date will put your child in a good mood, apparently.

Corinne

As anyone who has ever known a child knows, just feed them a date and they will stop crying.

Virginia

Instant good mood. Also pepitas! Good mood. 

Corinne

Yes. Also, coconut = stable blood sugar.

Virginia

And then the Cheerios are a pipe cleaner activity because you've apparently also packed pipe cleaners and you're going to have your toddler thread Cheerios on a pipe cleaner on an airplane.

This photo stresses me out so much because all I see when I see this photo is how fast my children, even at their current ages of six and ten, let alone toddler ages, could flip that entire box. And now every snack I have packed for however long this flight is, is stuck in the crevices of the airplane seat. Even in the caption, she says “works best on an airplane when you're sitting next to your child to supervise and make sure they don't dump it.” This is such a project.

Corinne

I mean, all that I see when I look at it is how much labor you're putting into it. And waste. It just seems like a terrible idea.

Virginia

Because I can tell you: Of the 19 different foods that are packed into this pill box, your kid probably only wants to eat two of them. They're going to eat all the Cheerios and the M&M’s and they're going to be like, “I just want more Cheerios and M&M’s." I don't now want to switch to elderberry gummies, or the six peas you packed so I can “work on my fine motor skills.”

Like I said, this is an old post that she reposts all the time because it always goes viral. The origin of Kids Eat in Color content is: food has all of this purpose. There are all these specific reasons why you want to serve these specific foods. And there is a lot of work that goes into making the food look pretty. So right off the bat, I'm stressed out by it. I'm not saying this is an anti-fat post or classist post. Maybe a little classist. But it's a little exhausting. So okay, go to the next link.

Corinne

Wow, okay, yeah, these are fascinating. For potato chips, it's “potato chips are bad for you” versus “these are called potato chips.”

Virginia

Which you can only use the one time, right? What are you supposed to say the next time?

Corinne

 I mean, this is very interesting. The next one is gummy bears. Unhelpful is “sugar is poison,” and helpful is “served with dinner, no comment.” The next one is M&M’s and it says “candy has no nutritional value,” versus “candy isn't on the menu today.” So already there's some kind of mixed messaging between serving something with dinner with no comment versus “candy isn't on the menu today.”

Virginia

She is framing the “can be helpful” list as a food positive way to talk to kids about nutrition. So she's saying, “Don't fear monger, don't say processed meat gives you cancer, don't say it'll make you fat, don't say it's bad for you.” But what she does want you to say is, “This is this very specific time in which I will allow you to eat this food.” So there's a lot unsaid in what she wants you to say. And I agree with her that like, let's not do anything in the unhelpful column. But saying “for us, pepperoni is only for when we have pizza?” That's a diet rule. What would happen if pepperoni was sometimes served in other formats?

Corinne

As a snack?

Virginia

How does that make your kid feel about the fact that their friend brings pepperoni for lunch every day? Why do you have a special rule about pepperoni in your house?

In the caption she’s arguing that we're in this dichotomy where some folks will tell you “you should only say good or neutral things about any food.” and some folks will tell you, “you should teach kids all the bad things about unhealthy foods.” And she's like, “You may have noticed, I'm more of a rainbow perspective person than a black and white person. You don't have to choose between these two extreme ways of thinking.”

But her rainbow approach is often misleading or still very imbued with the negative in a way that I think folks would find stressful. We're going to see that level up a bit in the next link.

Corinne

Okay. This one is a reel and I'm just gonna read the caption, 

I generally don’t recommend heavy restriction of foods, because it comes with some risks. At the same time, not restricting also has some risks, and I respect families to live out their priorities and care for their child in the unique ways that their child needs.⁠

…

When people say “you should never restrict or your child will have a bad relationship with food,” they are also suggesting that if you don’t restrict, your child will have a good relationship with food. Research doesn’t support this idea as a promise either. ⁠

Virginia

So this is what I would call “restriction apologist content.” She's like, “No matter what you do, your kid could turn out fine. Or not.” It’s almost like nihilism or something. She's like, who knows? 

Corinne

Right. But it also seems like the thing she's not saying is, the risk of not restricting foods is that your kid will be fat. Like, what other risk are we talking about here?

Virginia

That's right. That's what she's saying.

That comes up over and over. She's like, “There are downsides to having no restrictions,” but she never names the downside. Because we all know what she means by the downside and she doesn't want to say that.

Then she sums it up with like, “So you can restrict but just don't bad mouth food.” Like just don't say bad things about it. You can have restriction in your child's life, just like, still say nice things. And that feels like a real fence straddling position. 

Corinne

It feels very confusing. 

Virginia

So you don't hate cookies, but we’re still only eating them once a week or only your homemade kind or whatever the restrictions are.

Corinne

We only have cookies with pepperoni.

Virginia

 Okay, let’s go here next:

Corinne

So this is a slide show, which talks a little bit about weight stigma. 

Weight stigma comes from the idea that a high weight is bad and that people have a choice about how much they weigh. Weight is about 40 to 70 percent genetic. A person who has experienced economic poverty is more likely to have a higher weight. Adverse childhood experiences that come with higher weight. When that person asked me, How do you stay so thin? I think they expect him to hear me say I diet eat really well and work out? The true answer is that my genetics, environment, resources and a few personal choices have determined my weight.

Virginia

So she's highlighting on the same kind of thing that I would say about how weight is not something that we have a lot of control over. I make that same argument. But it hits differently when the person saying it leads with a photo of herself as a thin person. And leads with the question, “how do you stay so thin?”

I think she thinks she's doing something brave and bold here. 

Corinne

It also feels a little cagey. She's like weight is about 40 to 70 percent genetic and then she says, “the true answer is that genetics, environment, resources, and a few personal choices have determined my weight.” Like she's not saying you have no control over it.

Virginia

“A few personal choices” of choosing restriction for myself and my children.

And this post, again, is a retreading. I've seen a version of this post several times over the years, but this particular post came out March 30 last year—and it was the first post she made in response to the American Academy of Pediatrics weight guidelines, which came out last January. 

Kids Eat In Color waited two months before taking any kind of stand against the AAP guidelines. And then she doesn't actually take a stand against them. These were the guidelines which encourage pediatricians to put kids on diets, prescribed weight loss drugs, refer for bariatric surgery. 

She says, “No, we don't support widespread implementation of a treatment guideline that focuses on weight loss[…] We do fully support the thorough evidence included in the guideline to combat the belief that weight is a personal choice. That work is essential and countercultural.”

I cannot call anything about the AAP guidelines essential and countercultural, I'm sorry. It was a directive to doctors to prescribe weight loss to children. That's what that was. So this really infuriated me. And yeah, you can see it has 5,000 likes.

People really rely on her content. I've had a lot of folks who follow me say, “you and Kids Eat in Color are the only people I trust on this topic.” And I'm always just like, “Oh, that's an interesting combination of sources.”  

Something else to note: She has this whole team of contributors now, who develop content with her. But you can see it's all straight size people. She's not getting any perspective from any fat folks on her content directly. It is racially diverse, but it is not body size diverse, which I think is tricky. And she remains very much the face of the brand. 

Then the last thing that's just sort of like, I don't quite know what to do with, but click on the next one. 

Corinne

Okay, this one says, “normalize WIC in five steps.”

Virginia

For folks who don't know, WIC is the special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children. That is a government program. This is a pro-WIC post, where she's talking about how the program works and how important it is. WIC is a hugely important resource and we should be funding it much more than we are. And it is associated with better infant weight and better maternal health, better infant health, better development, all of that. 

What's interesting about this post is if you scroll to the end, she explains that she is in partnership with the Michigan WIC program and they are now making her meal plan available to all of their participants. Which I'm pretty sure means that they are paying her and that this is a sponsored post, which I don't necessarily mind except there are all these rules about how Instagram posts are supposed to disclose that they are paid content and she's not doing that. She announces the partnership, but it doesn't say paid content anywhere. It doesn't say sponsored posts. I fact-checked this with Amy who also has to follow the same rules for her content and she was like, “Yeah, she's not disclosing that relationship.”

I just have mixed feelings about this. If WIC is going to pay an Instagram creator for content for a meal plan, can they hire Christyna Johnson? There are so many Black folks, and other folks of color, doing this work and the fact that they hired a thin white lady to design this program for them, when most of their constituents are not thin white ladies doesn't sit right with me. 

Corinne

Yeah, that makes sense.

Virginia

So this is Kids Eat in Color. Thoughts, feelings, reactions?

Corinne

It's one of those things where I can really see why it's so appealing. I can see why it works on Instagram. It's visually appealing and it seems really simple. But then I'm like, God, it also just seems like so much work and so much stress.

Virginia

I don't know that she simplifies how to feed kids. She has posts about how to get your kids to eat more broccoli and how to keep exposing them to broccoli in all these different ways. I don't think that reduces stress. Because I don't think our goal is to get kids to eat any specific foods.

This is why I'm always surprised when people compare us because she says right in her bio, “help your picky kid eat veggies and have a good relationship with food.” And my goal is not to get picky kids to eat veggies. Like, I'm not taking it one vegetable at a time here. So that is just a difference and a nuance to feeding kids here. 

Corinne

I mean, we didn't even really talk about the post that's like, the idea of dessert with dinner or whatever where she's just like, “that doesn't work for some people's philosophy. It doesn't align with some people's customs or values.” What are you getting at exactly?

Virginia

Is the custom or value Weight Watchers? Is the philosophy Weight Watchers? 

Corinne

Your value is not eating dessert every day? Is that a value? I don't know. 

Virginia

There's a lot of like, “we need to respect parents to make their own choices,” which sounds very empowering. But the choice that she's always respecting is restriction without taking a hard look at why you might be restricting.

I have talked before about how structure is different from restriction. Kids do need structure. I just wrote the whole thing about not giving in on a third type of cheese at dinner. Because like, look, I can restrict! I can restrict you to just two types of cheese in a meal. It's not that kids don't need structure, they do. But to embrace the term restriction is a real red flag to me. And to talk about it in this coded way. Anyone who's coming to this content with a diet mindset is going to find support for their diet mindset.

Corinne

So true. Even one of the most recent posts that's showing a plate with a bunch of food and then a plate with only a little food and saying, “if you want them to explore new foods, try serving them less food.” That stresses me out. 

Virginia

Yes, this is rooted in kids get overwhelmed with big portions. But that's because you're giving them a plate of all unfamiliar foods. It is true if you're going to introduce a new food, introducing a small quantity will be more appreciated than giving them an entire plate of something they don't want. 

But you also want them to get enough to eat at dinner. So there should be a lot of the food that they will eat and feel comfortable eating, so that they don't leave the table hungry. The picture, this plate includes rice, some kind of chickpea curry situation, strawberries and blueberries. If your child won't eat the chickpea concoction which is right on top of the rice, there's no option to just eat plain rice. If they don't want to eat the chickpea concoction, they're left with strawberries and blueberries for dinner.

Corinne

Yeah, and the fruit is touching the chickpea stuff.

Virginia

Which like, of course, nobody wants that. So that feels like it's setting them up. Like they have to get the chickpeas and the rice so that they don't go hungry. But that might not work. A lot of picky kids need a safe carb on on the table. 

Corinne

And just the way she frames “serving less” as being superior somehow, I don't love. 

Virginia

I do think understanding this background and public health and that sort of problematic history. I'm painting with a broad brush. There are lots of folks doing amazing work in public health. We will link to anti racist dietitian. Anjali's work is really wonderful for understanding much more nuance about all of this.

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But anyway, don't take snack boxes on the airplane full of tiny tiny little foods that are gonna dump. I’m so stressed out for anyone who follows that little plane tip.

Corinne

No thank you.

---

Butter

Virginia

Do you have a Butter for us?

Corinne

I do have a Butter. I'm sort of feeling like my Butter isn't like joyful enough. But I recently was reintroduced to the Pomodoro timer. Do you know what that is? Do you know what Pomodoro is?

Virginia

Is it like, batch working? Or something about working? 

Corinne

Yeah, it's where you work for 25 minutes and then take a 5 minute break. And then like you do that four times, and then you get like a longer break. But anyways, there's a little online timer, pomo focus. I’m finding it a very helpful way to balance between working and scrolling on social media. To be like, Okay, I'm going to work and then I'm going to scroll for five minutes and then I'm going to work.

Or, you know, sometimes for five minutes, I'll mix it up and go outside. Do a grumpy little walk, grumpy little sunshine, five minutes. I'm just really enjoying that as a method of getting things done, so I thought I would recommend it.

Virginia

I'm intrigued by that. I have been thinking a lot about my scrolling because I'm spending less professional time on Instagram, but… my use of Instagram is not going down. 

Corinne

Oh, interesting. 

Virginia

I'm still on it. The time I would have spent making reels is gone. The posting is quicker. But I'm still scrolling. And I would like some boundaries around that for myself because I know it is not what my brain really wants.

Corinne

And I'm sure you find this too, sometimes I need to look at Instagram for something I'm working on or doing. 

Virginia

Researching this whole episode today! 

Corinne

Yes. And so the other thing I'm finding helpful is just to be like, I can do that in 20 minutes. At any given time when I look at the timer, there's going to be less than 25 minutes. And that is an amount of time that my brain can wait. If I'm like, there's 11 minutes of working left. I'm like, okay, I can wait to check that text or whatever.

Virginia

Oh, I like that. That's a great suggestion.

Corinne

Do you have a Butter?

Virginia

I do have a Butter. It is this turtleneck I'm wearing right now, which is from the Universal Standard Foundations line. When we did the fat fashion concierge recently I asked for pajama recommendations. And a lot of folks said that they like the Universal Standard foundations stuff for pajamas. So I went on and ordered some of their tank tops and the pajama pants which I do really love. But because I swear Universal Standard just follows me around like, “how do we get you to spend all the money,” they were then like, it's 20% off. And then if you buy three things, it's 30%. It was one of those sales where the more you buy, the more you save, except not really. 

Anyway, I bought this turtleneck as well. I love it, though. It's a really good fabric. It has a teeny rib to it. It's thin and very soft. We're at the point in winter and/or my perimenopause journey where I'm frequently too hot, but still need coverage. And it is like a great weight. It's light, but warm.

Corinne

 Yeah, it looks like it'd be a really good layer under a sweater, too.

Virginia

Yes. Were I ever the type of person who wouldn't immediately combust with hotness at that idea of layering, I could layer this. I did think about layering under my jumpsuit.

Corinne

Oh, that sounds cute.

Virginia

Is that cute? Or is that dorky to wear a turtleneck under a jumpsuit? 

Corinne

I think I would think it was cute, but who knows. 

Virginia

I appreciate that.

Corinne

I'd have to see it.

Virginia

I'll have to try it. I'm into these turtlenecks. I remember Mia O'Malley recommended them a really long time ago, so this isn't a new rec. But she was right, and now I'm waiting for another sale, so I can stock up on some other colors. 

Corinne

Yeah, it's a good color, too. 

Virginia

And for Zoom life, turtlenecks are a good work shirt. You never have to worry about cleavage, but you feel sort of polished in them.  If you really want baggy, this is not for you. And I'm not here to shame your baggy clothes, but it's comfy. It's cute, for sure. 

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The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!