Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!

It’s time for your November Extra Butter episode. This month, we’re doing a listener question (on post-divorce bodies!) and a segment if It’s Not NOT a Diet on 75 Hard (or Hard 75, as Virginia likes to call it).

To listen to the full episode and read the full transcript, you’ll need to join Extra Butter, our premium subscription tier. It costs $120 per year (which works out to just ten bucks per month but yes, we’re still working on how you can pay monthly!), and gets you monthly podcast episodes and live threads.

These episodes tend to be a little more personal. They’re also where we’re working out ideas, and having conversations that are definitely worth having—but maybe aren’t quite ready for primetime. (Last month we dug into the anti-diet to alt-right pipeline.) And biased, but, we think they’re very fun.

And Extra Butter is the hands down best way to support this work. This subscription tier is why we’re able to pay Corinne and Tommy for their invaluable contributions, why we’re able to offer unlimited comp subscriptions (just email! no questions asked!, and why we’re able to pay podcast guests a small honorarium to thank them for their time and labor. And Extra Butter ensures that the Burnt Toast community can always stay an ad- and sponsor-free space—which is crucial for body liberation journalism.

Extra Butter Episode 2 Transcript

Corinne

Okay Virginia, our listener question today is for you.

How have your thoughts and feelings about your body changed since you got separated?

Virginia

Oh, man. This is a GOOD question. 

I feel like I’ll probably write about it at some point? But I’m still sorting it out. So I’m giving you all like just some rough off the cuff thoughts today. Don’t expect poetry.

Corinne

Fair. 

Virginia

And I do want to say right up top that my body was not the cause of our divorce. What I’m going to talk about is how I’m feeling now. I’m not talking about my relationship. I just want to make that clear. 

But one thing that’s been cool, which I didn’t anticipate, is: I do feel more free. There’s a freedom to my relationship with my body right now. I think this is as much to do with being out of a certain stage of motherhood. Because in early motherhood, your body is not your own, in so many ways. My kids are older now so I’m not touched out and all of that.

But I think it is also related to suddenly my body feels much more just for me and me only—in a way that is liberating. And again, that’s not a comment on my marriage or even a comment on relationships in general. 

Corinne

Do you think it’s also living alone? I mean, you’re not fully living alone. But having alone time in your house?

Virginia

I think that’s what it is. I think there’s this ability to be more in your body when you are not being observed at all.

Like, during my first few solo weekends, I had this weird sensation of being observed. I think my brain was adjusting to the idea that I was alone in my house. Because that happened never before. Like, never. So there was a weird part of my brain that was like “I don’t know what this is.” I felt like I was watching myself or something. Like, Oh, this is what Virginia is like when she eats dinner alone. This is what Virginia is like when she’s watching TV on the couch by herself. These things that never happened. It was a strange experience. And then that kind of decreased as I got more like, Oh, right. I’m just in my body now. I’m just in the house alone.

Is that making any sense? Or does that sound wackadoo? You can tell me. 

Corinne

No, it makes total sense. It sounds nice.

Virginia

It’s really nice. It’s really, really nice. There are just little things that I feel more relaxed about. I’m just feeling more… a little more peace, I guess. Or a little more space. And it’s really more to do with having more alone time and no audience.

And again, this isn’t to say my ex was a critical audience. But it was still an audience, right? He was still someone who my body was in relationship to, in a way that now it’s not. And it’s kind of cool.

Corinne

I love that. 

Virginia

I would say the less good part is like… I am not to dating yet. But the idea of that is complicated feeling. I’ve heard so much from Burnt Toast readers and from other fat friends over the years. And it’s just going to be really different. The last time I dated, I was a skinny 17 year old.

Corinne

Yikes. I mean, it’s got to be better than that.

Virginia

Right? Better, but also, like, I don’t know!

Corinne

Just different.

Virginia

Different, right? And I think I’d still want to date straight man, which just feels like a poor choice. We had Chrissy King on the podcast a while ago and she talked about her divorce and dating and she was like, “It just really narrows the options.” If you want to date straight men, but you don’t plan to lose weight for the experience and you only want to date people who are fat positive. That’s going to be a strict process o elimination. 

Corinne

Yeah, I can see that.

Virginia

I don’t know. Do you have thoughts? Do you have advice? I mean, I know you don’t date straight men, but just as someone who dates.

Corinne

It’s hard question to answer. I think I told you that I’m just re-entering dating after a long break. And yeah, it’s been fun. It’s also been up and down. I don’t know. I feel hopeful. But who knows?

Virginia

I like hopeful. Hopeful sounds good. I’m excited for you. And I’m glad you’re having fun. For me personally, I’m like, “Maybe I don’t need that anymore.” Maybe I’m just done.

But I’m aware that I’m fresh. I am where I am on this timeline. Currently, I feel very happy to be un-partnered, but I am aware that there’s a piece of that that’s probably like, “And then I don’t have to worry about the body piece.” You know? Because my body can just be for me, which feels great.

Corinne

I do think there’s a ton of freedom. And I think it’s great to also just be like, “I’m not going to date for a while.”

Virginia

I feel great about that choice for me. 

Corinne

And that was a choice that I made as well for a while and feel totally good about.

Virginia

I mean, we put such an overemphasis on dating and relationships in this culture, and as someone unpacking a 25 year relationship, I can really see how that overemphasis applied to me. And I’m excited to apply it less.

Corinne

Cool. Good answer.

Virginia

It was a good question and I am sure I will have more to say on all of that as I get further into this. 

It’s Not NOT A Diet: 75 Hard

Virginia

All right, Corinne. You are going to teach me about Hard 75? 75 Hard? I can never remember the name of this thing. 

Corinne

It’s so cute that you think it’s called Hard 75 because it’s definitely called 75 Hard. 

Virginia

I love that I put that in the intro. 

Corinne

I was like, “I’m not going to correct her.”

Virginia

It’s a dumb name either way.

Corinne

I think it’s so great that you haven’t encountered it enough to know what it’s called! I see it on TikTok constantly. 

Virginia

I did just get an email about it, which I will reference in a little bit. But I think I have a mental block on remembering it? I just keep being like, no, I don’t want to know about that.

But we’ve been asked to talk about it. So we’re doing it.

Corinne

Okay. So, 75 Hard. The first thing to know about it is it is not a fitness challenge. It is not a weight loss challenge. It is a transformative mental toughness program. 

And the first rule of this transformative mental toughness program is follow a diet. No cheat days, no alcohol. Follow a diet.

Virginia

First of all, lots of diets let you drink alcohol.

Corinne

Not this one, Virginia.

Virginia

But then what’s the rest of the diet? 

Corinne

Okay, so let me just give you the basic outline here. So the 75 refers to 75 days. You’re doing this plan for 75 days. And if you mess up, you start over. It was started by this guy Andy Frisella who seems to be kind of an influencer guy. He has a supplements company. I’m sure you never would have guessed that. 

Virginia

Could not see that coming.

Corinne

Another whole thing about 75 Hard, is that he doesn’t sell the plan. It’s pretty openly available. So I think that might be why a lot of people get sucked in.

Virginia

So he makes money off his supplements, but this is like—a marketing strategy?

Corinne

I think so. There’s a page for it on his website and he does ask for your email, so you can get emails about it or something. And there is an app and stuff. But it’s not like you have to pay to get the program because the program is very simple. Let me tell you the rules: Follow a diet, no cheat days, no alcohol; 2 x 45 minute workouts a day, one must be outside.

Virginia

Oh my God.

Corinne

Drink a gallon of water. 

Virginia

Oh my God.

Corinne

Read 10 pages of nonfiction. No audiobooks. And it should be self improvement books. And take progress pics. 

Okay, so those are the only rules. But I feel like you can see why it kind of would be appealing because it’s both very strict and very open to interpretation.

Virginia

I’m having a lot of thoughts and feelings. 

Corinne

I bet.

Virginia

My first reaction is how is 90 minutes of exercise equivalent to reading for 10 pages? Is reading so hard for this guy?

Like, I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound rude to people with dyslexia and other reading challenges, but this just tells me a lot about this person. If he’s like, we’re gonna go hard for 90 minutes today, then we’re gonna read 10 whole pages.

Corinne

Ten pages of a self-help book. Like, come on, dude. And I don’t think you’re the one being anti-dyslexia, because he says no audiobooks.

Virginia

Okay, so that’s ableist because of course audiobooks count as reading. He’s like, No, you will read those ten pages with your eyes.

Corinne

There is something about your eyes here. It’s that your eyes need to get stronger. But it only needs to be ten pages. I guess that’s the Mental Toughness portion.

Virginia

This is a guy who did not do the reading in college is what I’m going to say. 

Corinne

Definitely not.

Virginia

Talk to me when you’re getting through the Norton Anthology in a week, buddy. Former English major over here. If there’s one endurance sport I have, it’s being able to read a lot of pages.

Corinne

I mean. You would excel at that portion of 75 Hard. 

Virginia

And only that portion. Which I still want to call Hard 75, I think it’s a better name.

Corinne

So another interesting thing that has come out of 75 Hard is people doing 75 Soft, which is like 75 Hard, but easier.  I don’t have the rules for that one. But I think it’s like “follow a diet,” but you can have cheat days and alcohol. One 45 minute workout. It’s just slightly less.

Virginia

Okay, now I need to send you the Instagram link that was sent to me. Which is another spin on this, that I just learned about.

Corinne

The other thing I’m going to say before I open this— I feel like the rule that’s "Take progress pics,” is also part of what has made this go so viral. Because TikTok is just full of people using before and afters.

Virginia

They just want you to make content. And there’s no specific diet. It’s just follow any diet and also don’t drink alcohol. And then, oh my God, the two 45 minute workouts a day. I mean, I cannot do this. Do these people not have jobs? Obviously they don’t have children that they’re raising.

Corinne

They obviously don’t have children. Like there’s just, it’s a lot. That’s a lot. 

Virginia

If I got two 45 minute pockets of time to myself in a day…

Corinne

You would spend them doing 75 Hard. 

Virginia

I am definitely not spending both of them on exercise. Jesus Christ.

So open the link I sent you, because this is another flavor of it.

Corinne

Okay, so you just sent me a link to an Instagram post, which is called “Introducing 75 Slow, a fully immersive 13 week community wellness challenge hosted by ether designed to guide participants on a transformational journey of self discovery.”

Virginia

You don’t have to read all of it, but her rules are one 45 minute workout per day. But number two is 10,000 steps that have to be outside. In addition to your 45 minute workout, you have to get all of your 10,000 steps outside. And I’m just picturing these people…

Corinne

That’s more than 45 minutes. 

Virginia

I’m picturing these people out in the cold. “I can’t go back inside. I’m only at 9,672 steps. I got to keep walking around my block!” 

Corinne

Also, it’s kind of insane how similar this one is to the 75 hard. It doesn’t feel slow. It’s not that much slower. It’s one 45 minute workout a day 10,000 steps, two liters of water, follow a nutritious whole foods diet (no refined sugar, no alcohol). And do daily self reflection, habit tracking and journaling, celebrate joy and document your daily magic moments.

Virginia

You don’t have to read with this one? I guess that’s the slow part. There’s no required reading. 

Corinne

You have to do habit tracking and journaling, which is writing.

Virginia

Yes, there’s a writing component. And I don’t know how you get that done. Because all you’re doing is walking around outside trying to get your steps in. 10,000 steps all in one go would take you like two hours or something? It sounds like less working out but it’s actually triple the working out. And then I have to document daily magic moments!

Corinne

Oh my God. And also, like, “follow a nutritious whole foods diet.” Okay. No refined sugar. That in itself…

Virginia

These are wild. There’s nothing behind this. These plans are is just people putting words on squares in Canva and marketing this shit. There’s a whole video clip at the end where she’s talking to her friend about her epiphany to develop this 75 Slow situation. And it’s just her sitting on an expensive sofa being like, “and then the name came to me.”

Corinne

And I love the the contrast in the original one. It’s like, “This is a mental toughness program. But take progress pics!” It’s like, yeah, how would I take pics of my mental toughness improving?

Virginia

I guess you could show your page counts when you read eleven pages?

I mean, as usual, we’re mocking this diet. We’re not mocking people who try this diet.

Corinne

Yeah, I get it. I can I understand the appeal, because 75 days. When you say it, it sounds like manageable. 

Virginia

Does it? It sounds like a lot. I don’t think that sounds manageable. For two and a half months?

Corinne

I mean, I don’t want to do any of that for even one day, but I’m just thinking if someone was like, “read 10 pages every day for 75 days,” I’d be like, “Oh, I could do anything for 75 days.”

Virginia

I mean, I can read 10 pages a day. But I could not document daily magic for 75 days. That’s absurd. 

Corinne

Seems like you might need to do 75 Slow.

Virginia

This whole list feels like the kind of overzealous New Year’s resolution you make when you’re 22 and you’re like, “This is the year I’m going to get into such great shape and do all of these self improvement things!” And you’re not going to do any of it. You’re just not going to do any of it. 

Corinne

Well, that is the thing about the 75 I guess, because then what do you do after that? They’re saying, “Oh you’ll be so much more mentally tough,” but like—so what?

Virginia

Are we joining the army? Fighting crime? 

Corinne

Okay, so the 75 is over, and then you’re going to go back to your old life. 

Virginia

Just mental softness from here on out.

Corinne

It’s not like they’re saying, “Live the rest of your life hard.”

Virginia

Or do they? I’m sure there are people who are linking up 75 days. 75 days hard, 15 days falling apart. I could definitely see people trying to rinse repeat this.

But I think it is a certain type of personality who’s going to even make it through one 75 days. And then another type of person who could do multiple 75 days. And in all cases, I’m picturing a straight cis man with no childcare responsibilities and a flexible dotcom job. That’s who this was made for, someone who can be like totally fucking self indulgent all the time. Because that’s what we’re really talking about. If you have 90 minutes a day to exercise, you are not doing a lot of things for other people. You’re just not.

Corinne

It’s not about self indulgence, though. It’s about discipline.

Virginia

But it’s a very, very self indulgent form of discipline. It is discipline as a hobby. What does this translate to? Like, are you getting your taxes filed early because of this? Are you getting the laundry done more efficiently because of this? Is your house cleaner? Did you renew Corinne’s passport for her? How are you contributing? Are you going to join the PTA and organize some whole event and do it all single handedly? What are you doing with your time and all this mental toughness?

Corinne

Do you want me to read you some reviews? 

Virginia

I mean, no, but yes.

Corinne

“75 Hard gave me the tools to have a no excuses, zero options mentality, and that is worth more than any class or education. The impact on my life has been nothing but positive. My health is better, mentally and physically. I perform better on a stage with my band. I perform better as a husband because I’m in a better mood, am more organized and pay much more attention to detail than I did before. I had the best financial year of my life after my second round. And I continue to grow in every aspect of my life because of the discipline 75 hard has instilled in me.”

Virginia

We learned everything we needed to know about this guy from, “I perform better on a stage with my band.”

Corinne

Oh, this is making me so tired.

Virginia

This is the scene in the Barbie movie when all the Kens played Push.

Corinne

Okay, I have to tell you haven’t seen the Barbie movie yet. 

Virginia

Okay, well, that is something we’ll deal with separately. But there’s a hilarious scene where the Kens who are trying to take over Barbieland are trying to impress their ladies. And it’s by playing that song “Push” by Matchbox20. Yeah, this is that guy.

Alright, so we’re saying you don’t have to do Hard 75.

Corinne

It’s not a diet. It’s a… what is it? A mental toughness? Mental transformation program. Whose first rule is go on a diet.

Virginia

Oh my God. But only 10 pages of reading! Please don’t do it.

Corinne

Don’t do it. Not worth it.

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Butter contains some affiliate links. Shopping from our links is a great way to support Burnt Toast!

Extra Butter Butter!

Virginia

Should we do some Butter?

Corinne

Yes.

Virginia

What do you have?

Corinne

Okay, um, I want to recommend this shirt that I got from Anthropologie. I got it this summer and so I got the short sleeved version, but now that there’s a long sleeved version, which is less sold out. So that’s what I’m recommending, because I will probably buy it. It’s a kind of sheer knit-ish top. But it’s mostly cotton. And it’s not too see through and it’s really cute. Just plain but it’s also really good under overalls or something.

This is Corinne dropping in to say that since we recorded this, that shirt has now sold out. I'm still linking it in case they restock, but here's some other sheer tops that I’m coveting:

Tamara Malas Normandie Top

Anthropologie Lace Layering Turtleneck

What’s your Butter?

Virginia

Alright, my Butter is my new little French press. When we separated, I realized I needed a new coffee solution because I drink one cup of coffee in the morning and then I switched to Diet Coke because if I have too much caffeine I don’t sleep. This is just a thing about me, I can’t have caffeine after noon.

Diet Coke is a lower caffeine option, so I have my one cup of coffee, and then if I need a little more, which I always do, I have a Diet Coke.

So, when Dan moved out, I was left with our giant coffee pot that makes 12 cups, and I was like, “Well, this is inefficient for my needs.” So then I spent all this time researching and I bought a fancy Cuisinart coffee pot that had a regular coffee pot on one side and then it made a single cup of coffee on the other side. And I was like, “Well, this seems perfect.” Because when people come over, I can make the pot of coffee. But for me, I can just make the single cup. But I could never get the single cup right. So I had shitty single cup coffee for the first two months of being separated, which did not add to my feelings of positivity about the whole situation. Like, I’m already trying to get a lot of things together, and I don’t even have good coffee? I was really annoyed about it. 

So then, I was like, “Am I going to have to be a K cup person?” I feel bad for the planet. I don’t want to be a K cup person. But maybe this is not a season of life where I judge myself?

Anyway, then I bought an $11 French press. 

Corinne

It’s so cute. 

Virginia

It makes exactly one cup of coffee. And it has completely solved my problems. It’s excellent coffee, because French presses make really good coffee. I used to be anti-French press when we needed to make a lot of it, because you would need more or like it takes longer. But if you’re making one cup of coffee in a small French press, it takes four minutes, which is the same amount of time that brewing a pot of coffee took. And it’s an $11 solution. 

So now I do need to sell my Cuisinart coffee maker, because we won’t talk about what I spent on that. But it was more. And I don’t need it. So that’s unfortunate. But I have this and then I just went and bought a bigger French press, for what I do have people over.

[Update: After hosting three friends for the weekend, I’ve realized there is still a place for the Cuisinart and that is FOR BRUNCH. So it’s staying but in a cabinet most of the time.]

Corinne

Oh, awesome. This looks like such a good solution.

Virginia

Are you a coffee person?

Corinne

I go back and forth. Right now I’m a coffee as a treat person. If I have coffee I’m going out. 

Virginia

So you don’t have it first thing in the morning?

Corinne

I’ll sometimes either have caffeinated tea or a caffeinated electrolyte drink. 

Virginia

Oh my God. 

Corinne

Um, yeah, sorry. It’s disgusting.

Virginia

You’re a weightlifter. We don’t judge your culture.

Corinne

But yeah, I love coffee. I love the flavor of coffee and coffee ice cream and stuff. But it gives me terrible heartburn when I drink it consistently. So I try to just have it as a treat.

Virginia

It probably plays a role in my heartburn, too. But that’s something I’m not looking too closely at right now. 

Corinne

Yeah, never mind. 

Virginia

I’ve been on this one cup kick for years. So I’m like, you cannot take away my last cup. 

Corinne

I know, it does really make life worth living.

Virginia

It’s delightful. And not to sound all portion control about it, but the fact that it only makes one cup means it is like a conscious choice to have a second cup. Because I have to rinse it out and make a second cup. And then that’s helpful to be like, do I really need a second? Whereas when you have a big pot…Coffee is like alcohol, right? It’s very easy to have more than you intended. Because you just keep pouring and you’re like, whoops, oh, yeah, I am now I’m really jittery. I had three cups of coffee. So anyway, it’s so cute. I recommend.

Corinne

It is really cute. 

Virginia

Right? Well, this was a very fun extra butter. 

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Today’s episode of the Burnt Toast Podcast was produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti diet journalism!