Product Thinking

In this Dear Melissa segment, Melissa answers subscribers’ questions about the design and strategy in building the best product teams.

Q: Is dividing teams to generate results in different strategies a wise decision? If so, how should they communicate with each other? If not, what is the right way to organize teams? [00:47]

Q: Are there any best practices in organizing digital products, future teams, and squads? How do you coordinate a backlog of all the products that are connected in an ecosystem of digital products? [4:53]

Q: How do you rightsize your product teams and value streams when the typical software system can be huge with small components? [9:41]

Resources

Melissa Perri on LinkedIn | Twitter

MelissaPerri.com

The theme of this week’s Product Thinking Podcast is transformation, and Melissa Perri’s guest this week is Brian Bhuta, Chief Product Officer at Signify Health. Brian is an experienced product leader and is passionate about establishing and scaling product management organizations in an agile environment. He joins Melissa to discuss transformations and product management from an inside perspective.

Here are some key points you’ll hear Melissa and Brian talk about in this episode:

How Brian and Melissa both got into product transformation. [1:50]

The raw material of transformation is people who are passionate about wanting to do better on a regular basis. [07:09]

Employees and customers want a bold vision, and not a boring one. [10:26]

Consider and acknowledge that there are people who have invested more into the company than you have. A leader who has the goal of product transformation, but who has a mindset that they’re going to “save” or “fix” the company, is doomed to alienate the people who have helped build the company to where it is. [14:19]

We have to build a relationship with our team and the people we are now in charge of. “You’re never gonna be able to work with someone if you don’t understand them,” Brain tells Melissa. [22:24]

An executive who sees themself as part of the team will make great steps towards transformation and help the company move towards a great workplace culture. [30:54]

When selling a product we need to consider if the product and the market are right. We also need to make sure that we are not promising too many things to our customers. [46:11]

Melissa and Brian talk about building relationships as both sales and product leaders, and building trust internally. [47:37]

Once you build a foundation of trust you can deal with any subsequent backlash or friction that may arise as systems begin to change. [52:07]

Resources

Brian Bhuta | LinkedIn, Twitter

In this Dear Melissa segment, Melissa answers subscribers’ questions about product teams with unequipped product leaders, ineffective usage of data, and killing products.

Q: Have you come across situations in your career as a product manager where you were under the authority of people with no background in product management? How would you recommend I bring my concern about this to my leadership without coming across as arrogant? [1:08]

Q: My organization struggles to use data effectively. What are some ways to convey the importance of data to leadership? And what are some achievable milestones that can be acquired to prove the value of investing in data? [9:14]

Q: How can I reframe the decision to kill products so that everyone can understand them? [13:32]

Resources

Melissa Perri on LinkedIn | Twitter

MelissaPerri.com

Melissa Perri welcomes Ben Foster - Chief Product Officer at Whoop and author of Building What Matters: Delivering Key Outcomes with Vision-Led Product Management - to this week’s Product Thinking Podcast. Ben is an experienced product leader who teaches the value of vision to help us craft the right strategy and achieve our desired outcomes. He joins Melissa to discuss the framework he details in his book and what makes a great vision.

Here are some key points you’ll hear Melissa and Ben talk about in this episode:

Ben and Melissa swap stories of how they “accidentally” got into product management. [2:31]

Ben’s book describes what causes some companies to struggle with product management, as well as what makes other companies excel. It also features recommendations for product leaders. [9:10]

Vision-led product management, Ben tells Melissa, is “being definitive about what the value of your product is going to be, for whom you're going to provide that value, where the differentiation is going to lie, ...all these major components of the product vision.” [10:12]

Successful companies see their profits as a byproduct of the value they provide for their customers. Defining what success looks like to customers involves deep research into who your customers are, what motivates them, who else can solve their problem, and what would make them choose you and stay with you. “As you map that out,” Ben remarks, “then you can make sure that everybody on the product team is rowing in the same direction towards actually realizing that vision.” [11:35]

Melissa asks Ben to talk about how he implemented his vision-led product management framework at Go Canvas. [20:02]

Melissa and Ben talk about the steps in the customer journey. [22:17]

“The reason that people actually buy is because of the performance things; the reason they continue to buy is because of the delight,” Ben emphasizes. [27:55]

Melissa asks Ben, “What else do you see [as] the differentiators between companies that do product management well and companies that don't?” Ben responds, “One of the key elements for me is they understand the connectedness between value for their customers and value for their business.” [32:33]

Ben and Melissa discuss how to convince the CEO that not every opportunity should be pursued. [42:26]

Resources

Ben Foster on LinkedIn

Building What Matters: Delivering Key Outcomes with Vision-Led Product Management

In this Dear Melissa segment, Melissa answers subscribers’ questions about pragmatic versus ideal product management, internal product management, and determining how to build products for a two-sided marketplace. 

Q: Do you think there should be a difference between ideal product management and pragmatic product management? [0:59]

Q: What kind of metrics are you looking at when customer-based internal users are forced to use the software? There's no LTV, CAC, revenue models, or any of the normal user metrics in B2C or B2B. [7:38]

Q: We're building a product for renters, our end users, and landlords, our customers. I'm struggling with prioritizing whose problems to solve first. Is it better to build for our paying customer first, or do we build as fast as possible for renters but risk more turnover with the landlords? [14:03]

Resources

Melissa Perri on LinkedIn | Twitter

MelissaPerri.com

Oji Udezue is the Chief Product Officer at Parsible and was formerly the VP of Product at Calendly. Melissa Perri describes him as “one of the best product leaders I have ever met.” His extensive experience in both B2B and B2C companies, including Microsoft and Atlassian, has given him insight into how to set strategy, even in companies where there is none. He joins Melissa to talk about what it takes to implement a product-led strategy, and how to influence a culture shift in your organization.

Here are some key points from their discussion:

Oji defines being product-led as “increasing customer focus… It means infusing the entire company with this idea that it's more efficient for everyone… to really execute on a really great product that pulls itself forward. And if you can do that then your ability to make profit actually increases…” [2:40]

The role of the CPO is to understand the company goals, vision, and mission and track an efficient product course to achieve that. The CPO’s biggest leverage is deciding what to invest in and what not to, Oji says. [6:13]

A draft strategy is a lightning rod: it gets the discussion started. Oji uses the VMSO (vision, mission, strategies, objectives) framework to draft strategy. Melissa asks him to advise product leaders who want to start drafting a strategy. He urges them to write it down and then socialize it. He also emphasizes that your draft strategy should be good: people should see wisdom and truth in it. [13:10]

Oji predicts that all enterprise companies will become B2C in 10 years. [22:05]

Melissa asks what is product-led growth. Oji defines the term and explains what it takes: a good product with great market fit, a good brand, good word of mouth and virality. [27:02]

You have to expand your addressable market constantly to stay in the game. [30:38]

Oji and Melissa discuss how product leaders can help change their company culture. [33:00]

Resources

Oji Udezue on LinkedIn | Twitter | Medium

In this Dear Melissa episode, Melissa answers subscribers’ questions about product transformation.

Q1: As the leader of a new product function initiative, what steps can I take to earn the CEO’s trust and create a company culture that embraces an outcome-driven and product-lead mindset? [2:07]

Q2: How can I ensure my company is approaching product transformation in the right way? [7:31]

Q3: How long does it take a strong product manager (junior to intermediate level) to make some positive impact in a company that lacks a good product culture? Should they stick around if there are no big positive changes after a year, or should they move on to try and learn elsewhere? [15:18]

Resources

Melissa Perri on LinkedIn | Twitter

MelissaPerri.com

Kate Leto is an organisational design consultant, coach and product advisor with a 25 year track record helping to build product teams that thrive. She joins Melissa Perri today to talk about some of the challenges in filling product management roles that companies run into all the time – and how to overcome them. Ultimately, Kate believes that growth mindset – both of leadership teams and product managers themselves is what makes the difference between success and failure. is a career coach who specializes in hiring product managers and organizational design.

Here are some key points from Melissa and Kate’s conversation:

There are two high level motivations for hiring a product manager. This first is because it ticks a box, the second because you need to make meaningful change. [Listen at 04:45]

How Kate has learned to hire great product managers, and strategies for doing so that she helps her clients implement. [Listen at 07:30]

The role of emotional intelligence in product management and organizational design, and the key trait that indicates someone will be successful. (Listen from 12:00]

The Story of Pete – the team member we’ve all worked with who is technically excellent – but not so strong on the human skills. [Listen at 14:45]

How to identify and call out the specific issues when you get the feeling that something is off during the interview process. [Listen from 22:30]

What is the mindset you need for success, and what happens when someone doesn’t have it. [Listen from 28:00]

The diversity problem plaguing many organizations in tech and other industries; Kate and Melissa talk about how to get out of the trap of hiring the same person over and over again. [Listen from 29:40]

Hiring for senior and director level positions, and making sure you’re attracting a diverse array of applicants. [Listen from 43:45]

Resources

Kate Leto

KateLeto.com | Twitter | LinkedIn

In this Dear Melissa segment, Melissa answers subscribers’ questions about transitioning into product management.

Q: What can I do to prove to potential employers that I have what it takes to be successful as a product manager, even though I don’t have experience? How do I write my resume?

A: Right now, companies are looking for senior product managers to balance out their teams, since they have mostly trained juniors. You should look for a company on LinkedIn that will invest time and resources into training you. Investigate their product leader: if they are very experienced, they will likely know how to train people and be more willing to find people to work with. For resumes, I recommend highlighting your achievements in previous jobs that are affiliated with product management, such as doing customer interviews and creating personas. Pull out what’s relevant and tell the story the way you want to tell it.

Q: Do you need an MBA to become a product manager?

A: MBA’s typically help product managers in leadership positions, but it’s not a requirement for transitioning into the field. 

Q: What steps should a senior product manager take to move into a director role if he or she has not had the opportunity to manage people?

A: What I’ve seen that helps people move into that role is showing that you can be strategic and think outside the box. Additionally, you have to be more business-focused; while we want to ruthlessly prioritize the user and their needs, you also have to figure out how to prioritize that within the frame of your company strategy. Think about what the company strategy is and then take every chance you get to explain to the leaders how your product can help achieve those goals.

Q: How do I evaluate a company's maturity and practice in modern product management? What should I look for before and during the interview process?

A: Here are some questions I ask product management leaders to gauge the company’s maturity, and what the responses indicate. What are your most important business goals? What are your most important product goals? What are you working on now and why? If they can't tell me the story behind that, it means that there's no strategy in the organization or that there's misalignment. If you get to meet the head of sales or the head of engineering, ask them about product management to see if they have a good understanding of it. If the rest of the organization doesn't know what you do, you're probably gonna have a hard time executing and doing your job there.

Resources

Melissa Perri on LinkedIn | Twitter

MelissaPerri.com

Creating great products is about the systems, processes and culture in place that help companies deliver value to their customers. On the Product Thinking Podcast, host Melissa Perri interviews the thought leaders in product development and answers your pressing questions to help you think like a great product leader.

This episode is all about strategy: what it is vs what it isn’t, and how to create a good one. The expert Melissa turns to for strategy advice is Barry O’Reilly, entrepreneur and business strategist who has “pioneered the intersection of business model innovation, product development, organizational design and culture transformation.” Barry is also the author of two seminal books on product strategy and development - Unlearned: Let Go of Past Success to Achieve Extraordinary Results, and The Lean Enterprise: How High Performance Organizations Innovate at Scale.

These are some highlights from Melissa and Barry’s conversation:

Learn about the pitfalls that growing companies often experience when they lack clear strategy. [5:15]

Strategy is making choices. Barry and Melissa talk about defining your expectations for the outcome, and how to measure the effectiveness of your decisions. [14:40]

Bad strategy sounds like fluff, so Barry shares what makes a strategy great. [23:15]

Strategy evolves over time - you make choices, execute, evaluate and iterate based on what you learn. [33:10] 

Barry explains why cross-functional teams are the best way to approach creating strategy. [38:50]

Product management is a creative skill. Melissa and Barry discuss why making space for thinking is important for product leaders. [45:20]

Resources

BarryOReilly.com

Barry O’Reilly on LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube

Unlearn: Let Go of Past Success to Achieve Extraordinary Results 

The Lean Enterprise: How High Performance Organizations Innovate at Scale