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0:33 Kati’s very unusual Venn diagram 4:52 Your brain on meditation 10:59 The time Bob’s meditation got weird 16:43 What are the “jhanas”? 25:34 What science tells us about the jhana states 31:53 Are psychedelics gateway drugs to meditation? 41:25 Kati: Here’s how we get “not-self” wrong… 46:50 Psychedelics vs meditation—neuroscientifically 54:59 Heading to Overtime

Robert Wright (Bloggingheads.tv, The Evolution of God, Nonzero, Why Buddhism Is True) and Kathryn Devaney (The Alembic). Recorded December 06, 2023.