Psychedelics Today

In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down to have a conversation about the 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival, Healing the Mind, Healing the Planet. Joe attended the conference and heard from many amazing speakers.

3 Key Points:

1. Joe attended The 39th Annual Telluride Mushroom Festival last weekend, a festival and conference that celebrates all things fungal and brings together a cohort of enthusiasts, experts, and scientists.
2. There was a lot of talk on the topic of microdosing. Opinions ranged from the feeling that there isn't enough valid data to prove that microdosing is effective, to some testimony on how microdosing has helped relieve cluster headaches or help with traumatic brain injuries.
3. There was some exciting news on innovative ways that mushrooms can be used medically to help fight disease or agriculturally to fight insects without using pesticides.

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Show Notes

• The Telluride Mushroom Festival took place August 14th - 18th
• This festival is is a placeholder Psychedelic conference
  • In the mycology world, the psychedelic topic isn't typically included in events

Attendees and Talks

• Brick Bunyard, who runs psychedelic magazine
• Tradd Cotter of Mushroom Mountain, an excitable mycologist
• Larry Evans of Blue Portal
• Teresa Egbert of Herbal Visionz, a Psychedelic enthusiast
• Peter Hendrix and Sara Lappan spoke on a study for using psychedelics to curb cocaine use
• David Nichols, chemist, was pretty optimistic about where the psychedelic movement is heading
  • He gave a super scientific talk around receptor sites and LSD

Music and Psychedelics

• Joe says that there is a long history of music and psychedelics
• Kyle mentions a podcast he listened to about someone bringing in their own music for a Ketamine therapy session

Psychedelic Therapy

• There was someone at the conference that said psychedelic therapists should have psychedelic experiences and should be open about it
  • It was an interesting conversation at the conference
  • Joe says, "you don't need PTSD to treat someone with PTSD, it's not the most important factor. The most important factor is safety."

Scientist Conference

• Joe mentions a conference coming up in the fall in New Orleans that is a Scientist only conference
  • If a scientist has published serious, quantitative data they are invited
  • It'll be the first gathering of its kind where there is finally enough data

Microdosing

• David Nichols shared his opinion on microdosing, that there isn't real data on it and that importance should be put toward medical uses
• Folks in the audience were making claims about microdosing for migraines and traumatic brain injuries, etc
  • Are people taking sub-perceptual doses or a threshold dose?
• Joe says a macro dose is a dose you can see (maybe the size of an ant), micro dose is something you need a microscope to see
  • The majority of people microdosing aren't educating themselves on dose size

Interesting Moments from the Conference

• Joe was surprised was how charismatic Tradd Cotter was
  • Tradd has plans to do mushroom retreats in Jamaica
• The most exciting news is a new method of pulling out the antibiotic resistant 'stuff' in a person, culturing it out and introducing it to sterilized/colonized grain bag and then reintroducing it to the person so they aren't antibiotic resistant anymore
  • This would be a mushroom bi-product that fights disease in humans in less than 24 hours
  • This same model could be used in cancer treatments or even agricultural applications, using mushrooms to fight disease or bugs that kill plants, etc
• There were mushroom foraging walks and mushroom identification tables at the festival
• Vendors included mushroom kombucha, mushroom jerky, festival clothing, etc
  • There was a guy from outside of Arizona who casts real psilocybin mushrooms and makes detailed metal jewelry out of them
• The town is small and surrounded by super tall mountains, and the festival is dispersed around the town
  • It's a small festival and a great way to make connections
• "This is where you quit your job and dedicate your life to mushrooms" - Tradd Cotter
  • Mushroom farming is one of the few businesses you can start with under $5,000

Links

Website

About Kyle

Kyle's interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began when he was 16-years-old when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. Waking up after having a near-death experience changed Kyle's life. Since then, Kyle has earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology, where he studied the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and the roots/benefits of psychedelic psychotherapy. Kyle has co-taught two college-level courses. One of the courses Kyle created as a capstone project, "Stanislav Grof's Psychology of Extraordinary Experiences," and the other one which he co-created, "The History of Psychedelics."

Kyle completed his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology. Kyle's clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early-episode of psychosis. Kyle also facilitates Transpersonal Breathwork workshops.

About Joe

Joe studied philosophy in New Hampshire, where he earned his B.A.. After stumbling upon the work of Stanislav Grof during his undergraduate years, Joe began participating in Holotropic Breathwork workshops in Vermont in 2003. Joe helped facilitate Holotropic and Transpersonal Breathwork workshops while he spent his time in New England. He is now working in the software industry as well as hosting a few podcasts. Joe now coordinates Dreamshadow Transpersonal Breathwork workshops, in Breckenridge, Colorado.

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In this episode, Kyle interviews Daniel Shankin, Founder of Tam Integration. They cover topics including the Psilocybin Summit, child rearing, and integration practice.

3 Key Points:

1. The Psilocybin Summit is an online conference on the myth, magic and science of psychedelic mushrooms.
2. Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves. We need to learn to ask ourselves how we can connect deeply without becoming codependent.
3. Child rearing is an important topic. Nurturing a child with care and love is similar to the way we use psychedelics, meditation and yoga for healing.

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Show Notes About Daniel

• Daniel came up in the psychedelic space in the 90's
  • Recreational use turned into therapeutic use
  • He explains that as enlightenment called to him, it also called him to do shadow work
  • He said the transformational work began in his 20's
• He said there was no community so he used Ram Dass books to help with integration
• Daniel says that psychedelics made him feel a deeper sense of life, more responsibility in his role on earth, feel more connected, etc.
  • His calling from these feelings led him to practice yoga, open a studio, provide trainings and more
  • "People gain so much by being heard" - Daniel

Child Rearing

• Daniel mentions talking to his wife about conscious child raising
• The conversation is about how to heal, not just talking about how to raise ourselves so we need less healing
  • "How do I raise a baby with as little trauma as possible?" - Daniel
• Grof talks about the birth process in his books but kind of stops talking about trauma after the baby is out
• The baby is designed to be held by the mother, and to put that child in a box with other children in boxes without parents, in a cold and sterile environment is a horrible idea
• We project our own anti-social tendencies onto babies
  • A baby is meant to have constant connection and attention, and when we give a baby neglect, we wonder why they have addiction, depression, etc.
• Psychedelic Integration is really a form of reparenting ourselves
• "How much deep connection can you offer and can you stand? How can I connect deeply without becoming codependent?" - Daniel

Attachment and Healing

• As a yoga teacher for 20 years, he has found that there is a type of reparenting, that it is helping people to learn to help themselves
• "Caring for people is a good thing to practice, one of our greatest problems is self-centeredness" - Daniel
• Money isn't the problem, "my money" is the problem
• Samskara is a subtle tendency of the mind (like an eroded river)
  • The tendency to prove that we exist, or to prove that we are right, is something that the ego promotes
  • It takes energy to tame the ego and recondition ourselves
  • "Am I trying to prove that I exist in order to feel loved?" If our needs are met and we feel safe and loved, we don't need to prove ourselves
• We tend to look for the quickest and easiest way possible for the least amount of suffering, we look for the quick fix, but there is a lot of work to be done typically
• It's important to introduce a meditation practice into a psychedelic practice
• Babies will cry into an endless void because they don't understand time, just like in breathwork or psychedelic sessions, where time is distorted

Mindfulness of Enthusiasm

• Enthusiastic consent is where you can press someone into giving you consent
• Are they enthusiastic about engaging with you? If not, then don't
  • Learn how to gauge enthusiasm

Psilocybin Summit

• September 19-22, 2019
• The 920 Coalition is doing for psilocybin what 420 is doing for cannabis
• There has never been a conference that is just psilocybin, and never fully online and live
  • It allows people to attend a conference from home
  • There is no venue to pay for, no tickets for travel, making it more accessible
  • The goal is to get as much traditional information as possible
• Daniel says he's not advocating psychedelics, he is advocating meditation for those who use psychedelics
  • Daniel hopes that with this conference, that he didn't choose the speakers to just spit facts, hopefully this is heart and mind education that helps people feel like there is something possible in their lives that makes them feel greater, and that may or may not include psilocybin

Coaching vs. Therapy

• Some people do not need therapy, they need coaching and accountability
• We live in a world where our context does not always work to serve us
  • How do we change our context to better serve us?

Links

Website

Tam Integration

The Psilocybin Summit

About Daniel Shankin

After a profound and intense awakening experience in 1998, Daniel dove deep into his yoga and meditation practice to stabilize his realization in his body and the world. He began teaching in 2002, and took over leadership of his neighborhood yoga studio in 2004. He's directed several teacher training programs and taught on the faculty of even more. Daniel 'Sitaram Das' Shankin has dedicated his life to the cultivation of clarity, resilience, and heart. With the recognition that our true nature is vast and generous, wise, he strives to serve his clients in finding their own innate goodness and boundless strength. He currently offers leadership coaching with a heavy emphasis on mindfulness and somatics, and is based in Marin County. You can visit his website and learn more about coaching opportunities at sitaramdas.com.

In this episode, Kyle sits down to chat with Greg Kieser, Founder of think-tank, Supersystemic.ly and author of Dear Machine, a book written as a letter to a future super-intelligent entity. Topics covered include blockchain, AI, money, Psychedelic Investments and how psychedelics can help humanity prepare for the emergence of super-intelligent entities.

3 Key Points:

1. Blockchain offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source.
2. Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper. Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services.
3. Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass Pathways is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale.

Support the show

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Show Notes About Greg

• Greg worked at a foundation in NYC aimed at reducing the rate of poverty
• He started an angel investment firm/think tank, Supersystemic.ly
• He wrote the book, Dear Machine, a letter to a future, super-intelligent entity

Looking to the Past

• Our nutrition narrowed when we became farmers
  • "The truth is, we can't go back to where we came from, we have to go to a new place, so how do we do that?" - Greg
  • There is such difficulty with people living in clusters (cities) and transporting all of the food in from the country
  • It's important for the psyche to get back to nature and even taking on a hobby as simple as gardening can be so healing
  • Children's immune system has been shown to become stronger when living on farms and playing with animals and in the dirt
• Psychedelics are helpful in understanding how interconnected everything is

Integration of Technology

• Blockchains have the capacity to take data and pull it into a place where we have more control over it (can't be bought or sold)
• When we combine our knowledge of technology with psychedelics, we will really start to progress as a species

Block Chain

• The creator of Bitcoin created BlockChain, which is a type of database that lives out on the internet that no one can own
  • It offers an enormous amount of opportunity, by taking data that would otherwise be protected by government or big corporations, and making it accessible to the general population for a more accessible information source
• Greg mentions a block chain that will be a regeneration of land
  • Maybe all the members donate $50 to the block chain, and those members then can follow the progress of a pond or the growth of a tree, etc
  • Its a good example of a block chain being used for good

Money

• Money is this interesting concept, that we are storing our time, our energy and our goods in a piece of paper
  • Psychedelics can help with this, be rewiring the way we think about money and the overall exchange for goods and services

AI

• AI is going to get more and more powerful and corporations and governments are going to want to get their hands on AI for more power
  • In Dear Machine, Greg wrote about a super aware machine that helps us to make super intelligent decisions based on what food to eat (based on our microbes, our genetics, what is the most sustainable for the environment, etc)\
  • Greg fears that the government will try to take control of it and have its own agenda, but he thinks that with super awareness for decision making, that good will win
• Kyle mentions that the Western mind is so obsessed with Apocalypse
• AI and Superintelligence are going to accelerate whatever systems we already have in place
  • If it happened right now, it would look ugly
  • But, if we create a world that appreciates interconnectedness and the diversity and complexity of our minds and our bodies, then we will be in a much better place
  • Psychedelics have a huge role to play, it allows us to appreciate things, it helps get our ego out of the way, it helps us break addiction
• Monoculturization has led to a lot of bad things
• "Don't try to change the system, just make a new system" - Buckminster Fuller
• Human well being and environmental stability are two metrics that we need to work on

Interest in Psychedelics

• Greg's interest in psychedelics began when we was invited to Psilocybin ceremonies
  • He said it just 'clicks'
  • "You really don't understand what psychedelics are until you take them" - Greg
  • He then began to invest in psychedelics, microbiomes, agriculture, etc

Compass Pathways

• The main problem with the health system is that we get into the idea of patenting molecules
  • Psilocybin is a molecule that can't be patented, so he's not worried
• Greg wants to see psilocybin use at a larger scale, so the medical model is a great way to get there
• As a part of Compass Pathway's program, in order to be a therapist and provide the therapy, you have to go through the therapy yourself
• Psilocybin is a cure, its use does not need to be continued for it to work, so Compass is highly incentivized to continue to heal new people, which is what we want, healing at scale

Looking Ahead

• Greg is most excited to see healing from opioid addiction
  • Alcohol and tobacco fall under that in his hopes for healing
• Greg is also really excited about the microbiome and the gut connection to the rest of the body
  • There was an Autism study that gave people with Autism a microbe transplant from healthy people and after 2 years there has been a remission of symptoms Microbiome Reddit

Links

Supersystemic.ly Dear Machine: A Letter to a Super-Aware/Intelligent Machine (SAIM)

About Greg Kieser

Greg Kieser is founder of Supersystemic.ly, a Brooklyn-based think-tank and angel investment firm dedicated to increasing humanity's readiness for the emergence of superintelligent entities through the study and spread of "supersystemic" perspectives and innovations. Kieser, whose university and independent studies of complex systems science form the operating thesis of the company, founded Supersystemic.ly after more than a decade overseeing a portfolio of technology initiatives at an NYC-based poverty-fighting foundation. His work at the foundation was driven by a complex set of metrics for measuring the impact of investments on the economic, physical and mental well-being of low-income New Yorkers. Dear Machine, and to a greater extent the company, unites his unique skills and knowledge in technology, social investing and complex systems science.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. David Nichols, American Pharmacologist and Chemist. Dr. Nichols has made many contributions to the psychedelic space and is recognized as one of the foremost experts for his outstanding efforts in medicinal chemistry of hallucinogens.

3 Key Points:

1. Dr. David Nichols is the founder of The Heffter Research Institute, which promotes research of the highest scientific quality with the classic hallucinogens and psychedelics in order to contribute to a greater understanding of the mind leading to the improvement of the human condition, and to alleviate suffering.
2. Dr. Nichols has a strong opposition toward the DMT/pineal gland theory. The assumption is that DMT is released during birth and death, but Dr. Nichols presents opposing arguments as to why it isn't true.
3. David doesn't believe in the research of microdosing psychedelics. He believes there are many other diseases and disorders that research money could be put toward discovering drugs for than the potential for heightened creativity with microdosing.

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Show Notes About David

• When he was a kid he was into pyrotechnics
• He synthesized a lot of MDMA for MAPS
• He is the founding President of Heffter Research Institute
• He was introduced to psychedelics before he went to graduate school
• David's work was never interrupted during the drug war because he wasn't doing any clinical work
• He proposed the study for MDMA testing on rats for a micro-dialysis of chemicals being released from the brain

David's History of Substances

• David attended a meeting at the Esalon Institute
  • He met Rick Doblin, a young kid at the time, who was enthusiastic about MDMA and Marijuana
  • Rick decided he wanted to develop MDMA as a drug, and asked David to make it with him
• Then David met Rick Strassman, who asked him to make DMT
  • So he made the DMT and then DMT Spirit Molecule came out as a result
• David made the first batch of psilocybin for John Hopkins
• "The only way to use these substances, is to use the medical model." - David

Microdosing

• David doesn't agree with microdosing, he thinks its all just a big hype
• He says that there is a huge placebo effect with microdosing
  • He says there isn't a lot of proven results and literature to make him believe in it
• He thinks that there are far too many other things to research and create drugs to cure (like eating disorders for example) vs. just heightening creativity with microdosing
• David edited Torsten Passie's book, The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics

DMT

• Rick Strassman's DMT hypothesis is that upon birth and death, the Pineal gland produces DMT, which produces an outer-body experience
  • David says that the pineal gland is too small, it's only 180mg
  • It produces 25 micrograms of melatonin in 24 hours, so there is no way for it to produce 25 milligrams of DMT, the amount needed for a DMT trip

Heffter Origins

• Heffter Research Institute was David's idea
• Arthur Heffter was a scientist with a PhD in Pharmacology and Chemistry
  • He was one of the most well respected Scientists in Germany
  • He got samples of Peyote, and knew there were alkaloids in it, and he separated all the alkaloids, and took each alkaloid himself to find out that mescaline was the active component in Peyote
  • He was the expert who invented hair tests to find out if people were suffering from lead poisoning

Heffter Research Institute

• The effects that they discovered from Psilocybin blew them away
• They knew LSD had powerful effects, but they weren't expecting to find the therapeutic benefits that they did with Psilocybin
  • Psilocybin has a great timeline too, LSD is really long lasting, and 5-MEO-DMT is super short and really powerful
  • Psilocybin is great for use in therapy because of the time it allows for integration

GMP Psilocybin Patent

• Joe mentions the patent of GMP Psilocybin and asks if there are other ways to make psilocybin
  • David says that he believes there are other ways to make Psilocybin
• The cost of psilocybin is trivial in comparison to the cost of therapy, David doesn't think that the drug itself will have a monopoly

Links

Heffter.org

Donate

About Dr. David Nichols

Dr. Nichols originally conceived of a privately funded Institute as the most effective mechanism for bringing research on psychedelic agents into the modern era of neuroscience. This vision led to the founding of the Heffter Research Institute in 1993. He is currently an Adjunct Professor at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC, where he continues his research. The focus of his graduate training, beginning in 1969, and of much of his research subsequent to receiving his doctorate in 1973 has been the investigation of the relationship between molecular structure and the action of psychedelic agents and other substances that modify behavioral states. His research has been continuously funded by government agencies for more three decades. He consults for the pharmaceutical industry and has served on numerous committees and government research review groups. Widely published in the scientific literature and internationally recognized for his research on centrally active drugs, he has studied all of the major classes of psychedelic agents, including LSD and other lysergic acid derivatives, psilocybin and the tryptamines, and phenethylamines related to mescaline. Among scientists, he is recognized as one of the foremost experts on the medicinal chemistry of hallucinogens. His high standards and more than four decades of research experience set the tone to ensure that rigorous methods and quality science are pursued by the Institute.

Download In this episode, Kyle sits down with Dr. Torsten Passie, Professor of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy with the Hanover Medical School in Germany. In the show, they cover a range of topics on Dr. Passie's studies on microdosing.

Dr. Torsten Passie will be taking part in a special panel dedicated to microdosing at Breaking Convention 2019 (August 16-18, Greenwich, London), also featuring Amanda Fielding of the Beckley Foundation, Dr David Erritzoe of Imperial College, London, Dr Devin Turhune (Goldsmiths), and Dimitris Liokaftos, exploring myriad aspects of microdosing, including its effects, unknowns, and media representation presented by BC director Nikki Wyrd. Find out more about Breaking Convention: https://www.breakingconvention.co.uk/

3 Key Points:

1. Psychedelic research in the University setting died off after 2004, but is finally seeing an increase as the psychedelic revolution continues to grow.
2. There is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs. It's becoming popular for therapists to use the substances used on their patients, more common to do the self-work before doing the work on others.
3. Even if microdosing does not produce any significant effects and it is all placebo, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society.

The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics

Support the show

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• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
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Show Notes About Dr. Passie

• Dr. Passie has been researching psychedelics for 25 years
  • He specializes in the therapeutic use of psychedelic drugs
  • He has found difficulties in researching psychedelics during prohibition
• Dr. Passie had a mystical experience before using psychedelics and then became interested in psychedelic use
• He had grown up as an atheist, a materialist, and his experience required him to change his psychological state
  • His perception of reality was irritated and he had to see a therapist to integrate this experience
  • He said that this was frustrating because he was young and still in search for his identity
• Through all of this, he decided to study medicine and become a psychedelic doctor
  • He became very conscious that he was on the right track

Research Studies

• The researchers were the only ones doing studies on psychedelic states, there wasn't much happening at the Universities
  • He did studies with cannabis, ketamine and even laughing gas
  • The research then was on how cannabinoids can help with psychosis
  • They were not successful with that, but it came to be that CBD was a neuroleptic and an anti-psychotic
• Research pretty much stopped after 2004 due to new laws and the cost of the research
  • Dr. Passie does mention that in the past 10 years research has really taken off again and that we are really seeing the renaissance of psychedelic culture
• In most of the literature of doctors doing self-experimenting, there is very little to no documentation of doctors doing self-experimenting with psychedelic drugs
  • Kyle mentions that MAPS has included into their training protocol to allow for therapists to have self-experiments with the substances that they are using on patients
  • Kyle also mentions he can't imagine trying to hold space in breathwork without having had his own experiences with breathwork
  • Dr. Passie says that the history of self-experimentation with psychedelics has shown that the participants can become 'gurus' and lose their objectivity, he uses Timothy Leary as an example
  • But with only a few times of self-experimentation, maybe 2-4 times, he doesn't see risks

HPPD

• Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a disorder in which a person has flashbacks of visual hallucinations or distortions experienced during a previous hallucinogenic drug experience
• Dr. Passie thinks there is a selection bias in what is published about HPPD
  • Its more common to have a study published that talks about an adverse effect of LSD than a benefit of it
• Hundreds of thousands of studies were conducted in the 50's, and no one claimed that this phenomenon came up
  • And now one person has conducted a study, claiming that this phenomena exists
• Dr. Passie says that this pattern happens among people who are prone to anxiety and who are dissociative
  • He says that most subjects that claim to experience HPPD, have experienced visuals even before ever taking LSD

Microdosing

• It has been known to not have any effects from 15-20 micrograms of LSD
  • 20-50 micrograms of LSD is considered mini-dosing, where you can feel some type of effects from it, but not as much as the full dose
• Dr. Passie says it is strange for people to claim to have increased cognition during microdosing based on conventional data that shows that LSD produces poor cognitive function
  • He thinks that whatever the effects are of LSD at a high dose, that the effects at a low dose are the same, just less, not completely different effects
• He believes that there is some placebo effect with microdosing
• In terms of the microdosing trend, Dr. Passie is critical about the productivity factor, he does believe in the creativity factor though
  • The flow state may also be increased with microdosing
  • He claims that in his own experience with microdosing, he doesn't experience the flow state, in fact he experiences a feeling of agitation

Combinations

• In a study, when patients took a microdose first, and then a little while later, they took a different full psychedelic dose, the microdose impacted the experience of the full dose
  • It lessened the effects of the full dose psychedelic

Psychedelics and Sleep

• Dr. Passie mentions a study where patients were given LSD, both high and low doses, during sleep
  • What was found was that LSD impacts REM sleep patterns
  • The dreams were not altered
  • The REM phases got longer during the beginning of sleep, and then much shorter near the end of sleep
• It shows that the impact of sleeping patterns brings someone to feel much different the next day

The Microdosing Trend

• Microdosing has much to be explored yet
• But even if microdosing does not produce effects, the trend is a new way to introduce it into our society
• "Microdosing might be a new assimilation process of psychedelics into our culture" - Torsten
• Instead of the 60's where we are taking huge doses, we are taking tiny doses as a slow approach to assimilate psychedelics back into society

Links

The Science of Microdosing Psychedelics

About Dr. Torsten Passie

Torsten is a professor of psychiatry and psychotherapy affiliated with Hannover Medical School, and led the Laboratory for Consciousness and Neurocognition. He has conducted clinical research on psychoactive substances and has written several books including The Pharmacology of LSD (2010) and Healing with Entactogens (2012). Between 2012 and 2015 he was visiting professor at Harvard Medical School.

In this episode, hosts Kyle and Joe sit down with Psychologist, David Luke, Executive Director of Breaking Conventions, a conference on the better understanding of psychedelics. In the episode, they cover research on psychedelics and transpersonal ecopsychology.

3 Key Points:

1. Transpersonal experiences are super powerful and can be valuable if integrated properly.
2. Getting access to drugs at affordable prices for research is difficult for the progression of the psychedelic movement. There is a lot of red tape in studying psychedelics.
3. There is a growing field for mapping altered states of consciousness using science and research.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

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Show Notes About David

• David is a Psychologist
• He works at the University of Greenwich
• He is a co-founder of the Breaking Convention Conference

Breaking Convention

• August 16-19, 2019 in London England
• There are over 180 speakers, a variety of workshops, and more
• David will be speaking about Shamanic perspectives and mapping altered states of consciousness
• The topic of David's speech for the conference is Ecodelia: Towards A Transpersonal Ecopsychology Through Psychedelics.

Parapsychology

• Parapsychology is a study of phenomena that questions what we think we know about science
• David has conducted pre-cognition experiments with ayahuasca, san pedro, mescaline

Research

• David says it's tricky doing this work because there is a serious amount of red tape around psychedelic studies
• Getting access to the drugs and to get a lab to make them specifically for research is outrageously expensive
• David says that Compass Pathways is making the research side of things easier
• He says that he wants the proper research to be done so that it can be available for all those who need it, and for that he supports Compass Pathways, but if they were to pull something like what happened with Esketamine and making an isomer of Ketamine extremely expensive, then he will not support it

Nature and Psychedelics

• Psychedelics provide a feeling of connectedness with nature
• People prefer to take psychedelics outside, but overall prefer to have amazing, transformative experiences, which in turn makes them more tuned in to nature

Transpersonal Experience

• An experience that is genuinely transpersonal can be useful
  • Typically after a transformational experience, people question their sanity, they have cognitive dissonance, their world view just isn't suitable enough to contain a normal sense of reality anymore
  • Its common for a lot of experiences to need a lot of integration afterward
• David leads breathwork sessions
• He sees people who have taken loads of psychedelics come in with skepticism about Breathwork, and then leave having the most transformative experience they've ever have
• "There are no limits to the human mind, and there are many ways to get there, and psychedelics are just the more obvious route." - David
• We get further and further away from figuring out psychedelics as a whole the more hyper-specialized we become in our individual fields
• The psychedelic space is a really interesting territory
• The things that Terrence McKenna would talk about years ago, we are finally starting to explore with science

Links

Otherworlds: Psychedelics and Exceptional Human Experience (Muswell Hill Press)

About David

David is Senior Lecturer in Psychology at the University of Greenwich where he teaches the Psychology of Exceptional Human Experience. He was President of the Parapsychological Association between 2009-2011 and has published more than 100 academic papers on the intersection of transpersonal experiences, anomalous phenomena and altered states of consciousness. He has co-authored/co-edited four books on psychedelics and paranormal experience, directs the Ecology, Cosmos and Consciousness salon at the institute of Ecotechnics, and co-founded Breaking Convention.

In this episode, Kyle interviews David Krantz, Certified Epigenetic Coach, and an expert in nutritional genomics. In the show, they talk about the effects of substances via the implications on an individual's genetics.

3 Key Points:

1. Epigenetic testing is a bio-hack for boosting cognitive function and harnessing our creativity and ultimate human potential.
2. There has been a lot of research done on genetics and the effects of THC. The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally, which varies from person to person.
3. Each person should be seen on an individual level, and the more we know about our unique genetics, the more we can understand about our interactions with different substances.

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• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Trip Journal Integration Workbook

Show Notes About David

• David works with clients on creating optimal epigenetic expression
• He uses people's genetics as a guide to look at recommendations for diet, herbs, supplements, etc.
• He began looking at cannabis for recommendations and found curiosity in psychedelics too
• Epigenetics studies the effects of the modification of genetics
  • It looks at chemical groups attached to the DNA itself and what happens to them over time

Cannabis and Genetics

• The most robust area of research on genetics is THC
• David said he has seen some research on Psilocybin and just very recently that liver enzymes are responsible for LSD interactions
• It looks at the way people are metabolizing these substances
• When you ingest something or smoke it, it has a higher impact on the body, edibles are a great example
  • Kyle brings up the curiosity of edibles impact being either physiological or biological
• Genetics show the body's cannabinoid levels
  • The body produces cannabinoids that activate the THC receptors internally
  • There are two enzymes that break down cannabinoids in the body, Anandamide and 2AG
• There is a higher likelihood to use cannabis in a person with lower levels of endocannabinoids
  • This makes some people high-functioning stoners, and others non-functioning stoners
  • The substance is neutral, it's all about the body and how it reacts to it
• When the liver breaks down an edible, it makes THC more potent
• There is speculation that the slow metabolizers have a better chance of passing a drug test because they don't have a chance to convert 110HTHC to the COOHTHC

Food and Substance Effects

• Kyle mentions someone who was drinking grapefruit juice everyday for 3 weeks, and it potentiated the effects of Ketamine
• In order to psilocybin to be converted to psilocin, you need a chemical in your body called alkaline phosphatase
  • Vitamin C deficiency and Vitamin B-6 deficiency all both correlated with alkaline phosphatase deficiency
• David brings up his experience going keto, it worked really great for him, his energy levels increased, he lost weight, but his wife had a horrible time with keto
  • Then he looked to genetics and it made perfect sense to him as to why it worked for him and why it failed for her
• Metabolism, biochemistry, genetics, and so many other factors impact a person's reaction to substances

Gene Type Testing

• Apeiron
  • David also mentions that with companies like 23 and me, they get their money from selling people's genetic information
  • He says Apeiron is focused on what you can actually do with the information, not just simply providing the results
• David says its super valuable for people to know these things about themselves, how to mitigate stress, how the metabolism works, knowing what to eat, knowing vitamin deficiencies, etc.

Psychedelics in the Future of Epigenetics

• David thinks were going to see that the epigenetics of psychedelics are going to show the ability to overcome trauma
• When we look at people at an individual level, we all have our own idiosyncrasies and variations
• "Because there is no such thing as an average human, let's stop treating people like average humans and start treating them like they are individual people. Let's stop leaving out the outliers." - David
• Taking an individualized approach to the psychedelic space is highly beneficial

Links

Website

Instagram

About David

David Krantz is a certified Epigenetic Coach who specializes in boosting cognitive function and helping clients harness their creative and personal power. As a lifelong musician, David sees the various systems of the body as parts of a complex symphony. And, as a coach, he excels at fine-tuning those parts to create resonant harmonious health. David also serves as Director of Psychoacoustics at Apeiron Center in Asheville, NC where he develops sound-based tools for better mood, energy, and focus. Additionally, he's an expert in the pharmacogenetics of the endocannabinoid system and has developed a proprietary genetic test for looking at individual response to cannabinoids. A biohacker by training and artist by nature, David enjoys working with others who have a deep passion for enjoying life.

Download In this episode, Kyle joins in conversation with Dr. Sam Gandy. During the show, they cover topics including the implications psychedelics have for human well-being and the biosphere at large at a time of growing disconnection.

3 Key Points:

1. There have been a lot of recent threats to our planet and its survival if we continue on our current path of unsustainability. Feeling connected to nature increases the human desire to take care of and heal nature.
2. There has been an inverse correlation with our connectedness to nature and our connection with technology. Getting out in nature, as well as using psychedelics in nature, both help increase our connectedness to nature.
3. There has been a rise in cutting edge research that reveals the capacity of psychedelic substances to enhance human-nature connection, which Sam shares snippets of throughout the episode.

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• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

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Show Notes About Sam

• Sam has a PhD in Ecological Science from the University of Aberdeen and a Masters in Entomology from Imperial College London
• He has a lifelong interest in nature and wildlife and has conducted research in areas all over the world
• He is a Scientific Assistant to the Director at the Beckley Foundation
• He is a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at the Imperial College of London
• Sam's interest in psychedelics began in London when it was legal to buy mushrooms
  • He was 'anti-drug' until he discovered psychedelics and began to explore consciousness and a love for nature
  • His background in Ecology (the science of interconnection) has combined with the Psychedelic field
  • Sam is interested in the capacity of psychedelics to increase human-nature connection and relatedness

Saving Earth

• There is a huge threat that our planet won't survive past this century if we continue on our path of destruction
  • Remedying our nature disconnect is something really important if we want to survive
• This nature disconnection is inversely proportional from our technological connection
• We cant live without nature
  • We have to make room for all the other life going on, not just the life that directly serves humans, like crops and livestock
• There is an increasing awareness of the need for nature connection
• Sam mentions about humanity's screen addiction, it raises our cortisol levels and there are many consequences such as psychological and physiological effects
  • "Contentment is the enemy of invention"
• Psychedelics and the internet are growing alongside each other
• • Timothy Leary would say the internet is the psychedelics of the future in terms of connection
  • The internet is playing a pivotal role in access to information in this psychedelic renaissance
  • "Technology is not good or bad, it's about how its used, the intent behind it" - Sam

Nature Disconnect

• Sam thinks that the first step that took us away from nature is when we started farming, we became less hunter-gatherer minded and stepped away from the wild environment
  • At that point we started living in large groups (creating cities)
  • Then there was the division of labor and urbanization
• Cities and technology are the main reasons for our disconnect with nature
• "Long term sustainability would be one of the chief governing principles of how things are ran" - Sam

Psychedelics and Nature

• There is something radical about psychedelics, they can convert the skeptics into appreciating nature
  • The ego dissolution character of psychedelics are a key component in feeling connected to nature
  • The default mode network (where the ego resides) becomes relaxed and dissolved, and when that happens there is a breakdown of perceived boundaries between self and others/nature
  • That dissolution of boundaries is a key component in the psychedelic experience
  • "When you feel part of it, it changes fundamentally how you relate to it" - Sam
• One's knowledge of nature is a very weak predictor of one's concern for nature
  • There isn't research of the use of psychedelics in natural settings yet, Sam hopes that as we research psychedelics more (in clinical settings) the research can evolve into studying their use in nature
  • With psilocybin, most people have claimed to have a long-term fleeting change in their connectedness to nature, that the feeling of connection doesn't go away after the trip is over, it lasts for weeks, months, even the rest of their life

Rigid Egos and Nature Disconnection

• Psilocybin decreases blood flow to the default mode network
• "When we are destroying our own homes (our bodies and nature) are we falling out of love with our self?" - Kyle
  • When we dissolve the ego, we increase connection, to ourselves, to others and to nature

Future in Psychedelics

• We are going to see the rise of Psychedelic Therapy
• We are going to see Psychedelic groups and communities on the rise
  • From those groups, we will see projects and initiatives develop, which could bring decriminalization, integration circles, etc.
• Sam believes the rise of depression and anxiety are a cause of our disconnection to nature, and he believes there is a lot of personal healing to be had if we get back into nature and actually play a role in healing nature too
  • Instead of trying to save the world just for our children and our children's children, we need to look at this planet as if we were to reincarnate and come back to this planet, so we should want to look after this physical plane to make it better for future installments of ourselves

Get Connected with Nature

• The direct, physical sensory experience with nature alone is well known to increase our connectedness with it
  • Sam suggest listeners to get out in nature and do anything! Boating, gardening, bee keeping, a walk in the woods, whatever
  • Sam really likes the art of Japanese Forest Bathing, which is about mindfulness and taking in nature, maybe combining it with breathwork exercises, etc.
  • The more mindful you feel, the more connected to nature you are, and vice versa

Final Thoughts

• Nature connection is just a single facet of the psychedelic experience, and Sam hopes for more research on this facet in the future
• We have a decent amount of research on psychedelics effect on people with depression, PTSD, etc, but Sam hints toward some future research on the effects of psychedelics on the healthy-normal population
• Make time for nature in whatever way works for you
• 2 hours of nature time a week are profoundly beneficial for health

Links

Facebook

Twitter

Email: [email protected]

About Dr. Sam Gandy

Dr. Sam Gandy works on the cutting edge of psychedelic research, as Scientific Assistant to the Director of the Beckley Foundation, and as a collaborator with the Psychedelic Research Group at Imperial College London. Sam has a lifelong love of nature and wildlife, and a PhD in ecological science from the University of Aberdeen. He has been fortunate enough to conduct field research in various parts of the world including the UK, Kefalonia, Almeria, Texas, the Peruvian Amazon, Vietnam and Ethiopia. Outside his work in the psychedelic field he has written papers, book chapters, articles and spoken at conferences and festivals on psychedelics and he is fascinated by their potential to benefit human lives.

Download In this episode, Joe and Kyle sit down and chat with Veronica Hernandez and Larry Norris of Decriminalize Nature Oakland. Decriminalize Nature is an educational campaign to inform Oakland residents about the value of entheogenic plants and fungi and propose a resolution to decriminalize our relationship to nature, which just recently had success in doing so.

3 Key Points:

1. Decriminalize Nature Oakland is a campaign that just recently found success in decriminalizing psilocybin mushrooms as well as other psychedelic compounds naturally derived from plants or fungi, such as ayahuasca, peyote and DMT.
2. The mission behind Decriminalize Nature is to improve human health and well-being by decriminalizing and expanding access to entheogenic plants and fungi through political and community organizing, education and advocacy.
3. These decriminalization initiatives are gaining traction across many cities in the US. It's about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there, to provide access to people everywhere.

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• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
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Show Notes About Veronica

• Veronica is a clinical psychologist licensed in Peru
• She has been working in the US as a Social Worker Clinician
• She has been combining plant medicines and spirituality back into psychology
• She is currently finishing her PhD at CIIS

About Larry

• He is in the same PhD program as Veronica
• Him and Veronica are the team that created ERIE
• In between they have taken the time to run Decriminalize Nature Oakland

Decriminalize Nature

• In this initiative, they had to convince 8 people of city council to agree to this, in comparison to the Denver Initiative, where they needed thousands of ballot signatures
  • This bill included naturally occurring psychedelic compounds, not just mushrooms
• Larry mentions they used the word entheogen instead of psychedelic, as a way to create new conversation around the plant medicines a reduce the stigma

A Win for Plant Medicine

• From where Veronica comes from, Ayahuasca and other plant medicines are national patrimony, state and church can't touch them
  • To be able to bring these to a place where it's considered schedule 1, Veronica is super inspired about being able to make this happen
• Right now these plants are in a tug of war between money interest of the tax side and the government, and the other side of corporate interest
  • The goal now is to educate people on what these plants do, safe practices and develop places and services to hold the space and make these plants available to people
  • It's about connecting to key people in the community and educating them, so they can use their reach to get information about these plants out there
• Starting city by city is typically easier to initiate, to then have a better hold on direct action and education afterward to be able to duplicate on the state level
  • They have had 50 different cities from 30 different states reach out to make this happen in their communities
• Veronica says that her first time trying San Pedro, she had felt an immediate connection to the plants
  • It became her goal to combine conventional medicine with plant medicines and make it available to everyone
  • "To be in touch with something bigger than yourself is one of the most important things" - Veronica

Sustainability

• Although there was no verbiage in the bill, they are being mindful about sustainability of the plants when making them more available with decriminalization
  • Synthesis is a better idea for ibogaine, 5-MEO-DMT and other compounds that are naturally derived but also pose a risk to their sustainability with decriminalization
  • The landscape just doesn't allow for synthesis right now, so we start at decriminalization and then hopefully open doors to the route of synthesis to aid in the sustainability of these substances and resources
• Larry's advice is that instead of spending your money and taking a trip to Denver or Oakland, to stay home and organize this is your own community because it can actually happen
• • It starts now and it starts with education Joe says the most major push-back received in Denver for the decriminalization was the threat of people driving on mushrooms

Links

Website

Facebook

Instagram

Twitter

About Veronica

Veronica Hernandez, is a clinical psychologist and shamanic practitioner from Peru. Since 2006 she has been trained on shamanic facilitation. She received her clinical training at the Institute of Rational-Emotive Therapy, New York, under the supervision of Dr. Albert Ellis. She was assistant professor at the Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia and research assistant at the Hospital Psiquiátrico Noguchi de Lima (Peru). In the United States, she worked as a Social Services Clinician at John Muir Health Hospital's Inpatient Psychiatric Adolescent Unit, California. Currently she is completing her doctoral degree at California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS), San Francisco, where she is carrying out research on the healing and transformative benefits of entheogens, especially Ayahuasca.

About Larry

Larry Norris, MA, PhD Candidate is the co-founder and executive director of ERIE (Entheogenic Research, Integration, and Education) 501(c)(3), a group dedicated to the development of entheogenic research and integration models. Larry is also a co-founder and on the Board of Decriminalize Nature Oakland and helped to co-author the resolution which received an unanimous decision from Oakland City Council. Beginning his studies in cognitive science as an undergrad at the University of Michigan, he is now a PhD candidate in the East-West Psychology department at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco. His dissertation reviews archived ayahuasca experiences to identify transformational archetypes that induce insights hidden within the experiences. As adjunct faculty at CIIS, Larry taught a graduate course called Entheogenic Education: Contemporary Perspectives on Ancient Plant Wisdom in order to discuss the concept of entheogens as educational teachers and cognitive tools. He was also an adjunct faculty at John F. Kennedy University teaching a class titled Paradigms of Consciousness. A dedicated activist and proponent of cognitive liberty, Larry's efforts are a contribution to not only change the Western legal status of these powerful plants, fungus, and compounds, but also to emphasize the potential sacred nature of entheogens given the right set and setting.

Download In this episode, Kyle talks with Tom Lane, author of Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl. In the episode, they discuss the history of Quetzalcoatl, the ceremony of the deified heart and sacred mushroom rituals.

3 Key Points:

1. Quetzalcoatl is a feathered-serpent deity of ancient Mesoamerican culture that can come to you when partaking in the ceremony of the deified heart. Quetzalcoatl teaches how to overcome fear and hatred and bring love.
2. The ceremony of the deified heart is a sacred mushroom ritual that when methods are combined correctly, can bring about Quetzalcoatl.
3. In the episode, Tom tells intriguing stories of his experiences with mushroom rituals and experiencing Quetzalcoatl, including a ceremony with Maria Sabina.

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• Patreon
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• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
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Show Notes Quetzalcoatl

• He was not an Aztec, he originated as a King in the Toltec civilization thousands of years before the Aztecs
• As legend has it, where his blood fell is where the sacred mushrooms grew
• Some people believe he was a Naga, a combination flow of energy, a male/female serpent
  • A winged, jeweled, male/female, serpent
• In the ceremony of the deified heart, the serpent will come to you

About Tom

• He was building geodesic domes in a remote area in Mexico
• He had some of his first mushroom experiences, and it led him to realize that the story of mushrooms was about Quetzalcoatl
• His first experience with the mushroom was mild
• He said the mushrooms found him, he takes them as a sacrament

Ceremony of the Deified Heart

• The legend was that Quetzalcoatl gave cacao to participants as an aphrodisiac and it would help release serotonin
• The goal is not to talk a lot
• Then, the mushrooms are to be retrieved from the ground, fresh
• Before the ceremony, Tom says he likes to put four candles placed in all four directions
• The key to eating the mushrooms is eating them totally covered with honey
  • You eat them two at a time, as it represents the male and female
  • And when you eat the mushrooms, you actually never swallow
  • You chew and chew and the mucous membranes of your tongue take the psilocin straight to the brain and spine
• He says once it starts to take effect, it feels like there is a snake up your spine (He mentions his friends call this Kundalini)
• Then you go out and Quetzalcoatl will come
  • When he comes, he is like a rainbow jeweled serpent, an embodiment of pure light, pure energy, pure love
• Tom says the next day it feels like you're 10 years younger
• Its a pure force of love, an obliteration of the concept of time
• Quetzalcoatl created this ceremony to bring about the serpent for healing, for a balance of male and female
• This ceremony is best done during the night, with thunderstorms in the mountains

Ceremony with Maria Sabina

• One night they went to see Maria Sabina
• She agreed to do a ceremony at night
• Her house was in the mountains and had a thatched roof with no windows or doors and sometimes clouds would come through her house
• During a ceremony a lightning bolt came though the house, in one window and out the other
• Maria's daughter gave him truffle like mushrooms and he brought them back with him
• Maria's daughter really tried to learn his name, she repeated it a multitude of times until she said it exactly perfectly so she could say it during the ceremony

Quetzalcoatl Messages

• God gave us love and pain
• We have to learn how to celebrate the pain
• God gave us knowledge, and tools of how to heal the pain
• Tom's goal is to teach people how to take the sacred mushrooms to meet Quetzalcoatl and find healing, love and peace
• "Once you get rid of the ego, you get rid of fear, and then you have love." - Tom
  • The only way you can overcome hatred and fear is with love
• The body is teaching the mind when consuming the sacred mushroom
• It's best to just try to love people and be kind, and it's all acts of kindness and love that makes a person feel good

Links

Sacred Mushroom Rituals: The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl

About Tom Lane

Tom, Author, has a Bachelors in Forestry from the University of Tennessee and a Masters from the University of Florida in Science Education and Middle School Education. He has worked full time in the Solar Energy field as a Contractor and Trainer and has a background in Mushrooms. Tom spent some time in 1973 living in the jungles of Palenque in Mexico and learn about mushrooms and mushroom ceremony. Tom is the Author of the book, Sacred Mushroom Rituals, The Search for the Blood of Quetzalcoatl.