In this episode Benjamin sits down for am amazing conversation with with Scott Cormode. They talk about Scott's new book, “The Innovative Church”, the heart of leadership, how a leader can get people to think differently, the value of listening, what leadership approaches matter most in 2020, and much more. Scott received his PhD from Yale University, and is the Hugh De Pree Professor of Leadership Development at Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, California. He is a senior fellow at the Max De Pree Center for Leadership and the Fuller Youth Institute. Scott also founded the Academy of Religious Leadership and the Journal of Religious Leadership. Don't forget to subscribe to the Rise and Lead Podcast to ensure you get notified when new episodes release every month. Remember, the best time to rise and lead is now!