Profit matters, but it’s not the whole story. In this episode, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about building a company around independence instead of endless growth. They reflect on finding the right size for a business, keeping costs low to preserve freedom, and choosing a long, sustainable run over chasing scale at any cost.Key Takeaways<ul><li>00:10 – Finding your “orbit” when you don’t need to keep pushing for more</li><li>03:39 – Letting go of the idea that growth has to be endless</li><li>09:05 – Choosing independence instead of outside pressure</li><li>17:48 – Keeping costs low so you have room to try things your way</li><li>19:57 – Why steady can beat getting bigger</li></ul>Links and Resources<ul><li>Fizzy is a modern spin on kanban. Try it for free at <a href='https://www.fizzy.do/'>fizzy.do</a></li><li><a href='https://sendspark.com/request/The-REWORK-Podcast/hsj7miu9gesm8gq6jm8pr6z9izly0fc2'>Record a video question for the podcast</a></li><li><a href='https://basecamp.com/pricing'>Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com</a></li><li><a href='https://37signals.com/books'>Books by 37signals</a></li><li><a href='https://www.hey.com/world/'>HEY World | HEY</a></li><li><a href='https://www.rework.fm/'>The REWORK podcast</a></li><li><a href='https://www.youtube.com/@37signals/podcasts'>The Rework Podcast on YouTube</a></li><li><a href='https://dev.37signals.com/'>The 37signals Dev Blog</a></li><li><a href='https://www.youtube.com/c/basecamp/featured'>37signals on YouTube</a></li><li><a href='https://twitter.com/37signals'>@37signals on X</a></li></ul>

Profit matters, but it’s not the whole story. In this episode, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about building a company around independence instead of endless growth. They reflect on finding the right size for a business, keeping costs low to preserve freedom, and choosing a long, sustainable run over chasing scale at any cost. Key Takeaways00:10 – Finding your “orbit” when you don’t need to keep pushing for more03:39 – Letting go of the idea that growth has to be endless09:05 – Choosing independence instead of outside pressure17:48 – Keeping costs low so you have room to try things your way19:57 – Why steady can beat getting biggerLinks and ResourcesFizzy is a modern spin on kanban. Try it for free at fizzy.doRecord a video question for the podcastSign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.comBooks by 37signalsHEY World | HEYThe REWORK podcastThe Rework Podcast on YouTubeThe 37signals Dev Blog37signals on YouTube@37signals on X

Profit matters, but it’s not the whole story. In this episode, Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson talk about building a company around independence instead of endless growth. They reflect on finding the right size for a business, keeping costs low to preserve freedom, and choosing a long, sustainable run over chasing scale at any cost.Key Takeaways<ul><li>00:10 – Finding your “orbit” when you don’t need to keep pushing for more</li><li>03:39 – Letting go of the idea that growth has to be endless</li><li>09:05 – Choosing independence instead of outside pressure</li><li>17:48 – Keeping costs low so you have room to try things your way</li><li>19:57 – Why steady can beat getting bigger</li></ul>Links and Resources<ul><li>Fizzy is a modern spin on kanban. Try it for free at <a href="https://www.fizzy.do/" rel="noopener noreferrer">fizzy.do</a></li><li><a href="https://sendspark.com/request/The-REWORK-Podcast/hsj7miu9gesm8gq6jm8pr6z9izly0fc2" rel="noopener noreferrer">Record a video question for the podcast</a></li><li><a href="https://basecamp.com/pricing" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sign up for a 30-day free trial at Basecamp.com</a></li><li><a href="https://37signals.com/books" rel="noopener noreferrer">Books by 37signals</a></li><li><a href="https://www.hey.com/world/" rel="noopener noreferrer">HEY World | HEY</a></li><li><a href="https://www.rework.fm/" rel="noopener noreferrer">The REWORK podcast</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/@37signals/podcasts" rel="noopener noreferrer">The Rework Podcast on YouTube</a></li><li><a href="https://dev.37signals.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer">The 37signals Dev Blog</a></li><li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/basecamp/featured" rel="noopener noreferrer">37signals on YouTube</a></li><li><a href="https://twitter.com/37signals" rel="noopener noreferrer">@37signals on X</a></li></ul>

Business beyond profit

Welcome to the first episode of Rework! This podcast is based on Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's 2010 best-selling business book, which was itself based on years of blogging. So what better way to kick off this show than talking about byproducts? In this episode, Jason explains how Basecamp's ideas have been packaged as blog posts, workshops, and books. We also visit a 145-year-old sawmill in Ontario, Canada to see how this family-owned business sells its physical byproducts.

Welcome to the first episode of Rework! This podcast is based on Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson's 2010 best-selling business book, which was itself based on years of blogging. So what better way to kick off this show than talking about byproducts? In this episode, Jason explains how Basecamp's ideas have been packaged as blog posts, workshops, and books. We also visit a 145-year-old sawmill in Ontario, Canada to see how this family-owned business sells its physical byproducts.

Sell Your By-products

"The word you always hear is 'scaling,' right? 'We gotta scale.' And I'm just like: well, why do you have to scale?" – Jason Fried Introducing the Rework podcast: a show by the makers of <a href='https://basecamp.com'>Basecamp</a> about a better way to work and run your business. For years entrepreneurs have been told that to be successful they have to scale fast, raise money and get big. We're here to tell you there's a better way.

"The word you always hear is 'scaling,' right? 'We gotta scale.' And I'm just like: well, why do you have to scale?" – Jason Fried Introducing the Rework podcast: a show by the makers of Basecamp about a better way to work and run your business. For years entrepreneurs have been told that to be successful they have to scale fast, raise money and get big. We're here to tell you there's a better way.

"The word you always hear is 'scaling,' right? 'We gotta scale.' And I'm just like: well, why do you have to scale?" – Jason Fried Introducing the Rework podcast: a show by the makers of <a href="https://basecamp.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">Basecamp</a> about a better way to work and run your business.&nbsp;For years entrepreneurs have been told that to be successful they have to scale fast, raise money and get big.&nbsp;We're here to tell you there's a better way.

Rework Teaser

A podcast by 37signals about the better way to work and run your business. The REWORK podcast features the co-founders of 37signals (the makers of Basecamp and HEY), Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sharing their unique perspective on business and entrepreneurship along with host Kimberly Rhodes.

Business

Management

A podcast by 37signals about the better way to work and run your business. The REWORK podcast features the co-founders of 37signals (the makers of Basecamp and HEY), Jason Fried and David Heinemeier Hansson sharing their unique perspective on business and entrepreneurship along with host Kimberly Rhodes.

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