Todd Fadel is our guest this week. He is an individual whose life experiences defy easy categorization. He was the lead singer of a Star Wars-themed side project to Tooth and Nail grunge band Sometime Sunday. He was a worship leader at a non-traditional church in Portland, Oregon. He helped run TOMFest. He's also a big fan of Evie. 

Most of our conversation in this episode is about his work running Meow Meow, an all-ages venue in Portland that straddled the Christian and secular music worlds in the early 2000s. 

Adam Voith's novel in progress that is mentioned in this episode. 

The film adaptation of Don Miller's best-selling book, Blue Like Jazz, is mentioned in this episode. It was directed by the legendary Steve Taylor. 

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David Dark is a life-long Nashvillian and an admitted member of what he calls "The Prayer Trade" as a professor of religion and the arts at Belmont University. In 2002 he published his first book, "Everyday Apocalypse: The Sacred Revealed in Radiohead, The Simpsons, and Other Pop Culture Icons." At the time he was involved in The Art House along with Leah and Charlie Peacock. 

Now David has reissued the book as "Everyday Apocalypse: Art, Empire, and the End of the World" or if you're a Swiftie "Everyday Apocalypse (David's Version)." 

Hosts Andrew Gill and Leah Payne welcome David back to the show to discuss both editions of the book, his relationships with musicians inside and outside the Christian music industry and his depiction in the book "Body Piercing Saved My Life."

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

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PROMO SWAP: "When We Were on Fire" is a full-cast audio drama podcast based on the faith deconstruction memoir by Addie Zierman. Created by Lizzie Goldsmith, the podcast stars Aria Sivick as Addie, and features original music by Frank Sheffield. 

The English worship band Delirious (technically Deliriou5?) certainly changed church music and probably influenced a young Chris Martin of Coldplay, but was their lasting impact on music bigger than Nirvana's? That's the case made in a social media video by our guest today, Gabriel Wilson. 

Wilson is a veteran of worship bands both as a musician and producer. He once toured with Delirious and has produced Delirious singer Martin Smith in the studio. He also has a deep respect for Nirvana. Andrew and Leah dig into his case for Delirious having a larger impact on music writ large than Nirvana. 

Gabriel's Video

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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Aaron Carnes is an expert on ska, but is self-aware enough that his book (and podcast) are called In Defense of Ska. Like Christian rock, when folks admit to liking ska they often brace for being mocked. Aaron knows something about both worlds since he was only allowed to listen to CCM growing up. 

This conversation is wide-ranging, covering the roots of ska (Madness didn't invent it), the waves of reinvention it has survived and how it was put to use by Christians to good effect (Five Iron Frenzy, The Israelites, Runforyerlife) and questionable effect (The OC Supertones, B.O.B.). Plus a little story about Sonseed.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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The Charlie Kirk Memorial in Arizona was a singular event that blended religion and politics in powerful ways. It featured a lot of Christian music. Brandon Lake, Chris Tomlin, Phil Wickham, Kari Jobe Carnes, Cody Carnes and Tiffany Hudson all led the 100,000 people in the stadium and estimated 20 million watching online in worship songs. To analyze what it means that these artists performed at this event and how their music functioned in the event, we're joined by Kelsey Kramer McGinnis and David Gate. 

Kelsey Kramer McGinnis is a musicologist, worship music correspondent for Christianity Today, and co-author of The Myth of Good Christian Parenting: How False Promises Failed a Generation of Evangelicals.

David Gate is a poet, writer and visual artist who used to lead worship in England, Ireland and the American South. His collection of poems and essays is called A Rebellion of Care.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

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After 15 weekly episodes in season 3, Leah and Andrew chat about what else they've been up to this fall, what episodes they've especially enjoyed this season, and what they're looking forward to in upcoming episodes.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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Chris DeVille wrote the book on the indie rock boom (Such Great Heights: The Complete Cultural History of the Indie Rock Explosion), but before he became a self-confessed "indie snob" he was a willing listener of Christian rock. In this conversation we discuss the influence of Pitchfork on musical tastes and how specific signifiers could have an outsized impact on critical coverage in the blog era. Artists discussed include 4Him, Stavesacre, Sufjan Stevens, Pedro The Lion, Cameron Winter, Neutral Milk Hotel and, of course, Carman. 

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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In 1985 the Contemporary Christian Music industry reached a cultural height it would never regain. That's the basic case that Tim Dillinger has been making lately in his Substack, God's Music Is My Life. With artists like Amy Grant, Leslie Phillips, Sheila Walsh, Tramaine Hawkins and Rez Band pushing the boundaries of CCM from the inside, and mainstream acts like Maria Muldour and Mr. Mister pushing into CCM from the outside, 1985 was a year like no other, according to Tim. Would you believe that the downfall of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker's PTL empire in 1987 would reshape the Christian landscape for the worse?

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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Katie Thornton loves radio. Her series The Divided Dial has delved into conservative talk radio and shortwave. It won a 2023 Peabody Award. And her piece for Rolling Stone, "Jesus Take The Dial" goes in depth on CCM radio giant K-LOVE's operations. 

We talk with Thornton about how K-LOVE's parent company has used its non-profit status to build a broadcasting behemoth and the downstream effects that has on American culture. We also discuss the Christian music she actually enjoys, her contrarian take on Bob Dylan and how K-LOVE compares to Salem Media Group, her main subject in season one of The Divided Dial. 

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

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Ozzy Osbourne died in July. He was memorialized as the "Prince of Darkness" and was a key figure during the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. But our guest Jason P Woodbury points out that Osbourne's genius was in marrying heaven and hell- and if you listen closely, he's not as different from Christian rock as you might assume. 

Jason P Woodbury is an editor of Aquarium Drunkard and hosts their podcast, Transmissions. He also makes music as JPW.

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Register for Theology Beer Camp with our promo code RTDR for $75 off.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

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If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

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