No new episode this week. Be back next Wednesday. Check our Patreon for some bonus content if you're interested. 

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

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Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

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In 1998 it seemed like Josh Caterer had it made. His band, Smoking Popes, had three critically acclaimed albums out. They were signed to Capitol Records. He had married his high school sweetheart. But Josh had also just become a Christian and couldn't reconcile his rock band life with his new evangelical life. So he quit the band. 

On today's episode hosts Andrew Gill and Dr. Leah Payne talk with Josh Caterer about that decision, how the band got back together, their new album, Lovely Stuff, and their new single, "Allegiance." 

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 204-4264.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)

Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

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In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worship music on new Christian pop music, differences in religious culture in the UK versus the US, the role of social media in spreading singles by Brandon Lake and Forrest Frank, the conservative political environment in the US and the changing standards of personal behavior expected of Christian pop stars. 

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 204-4264.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

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This week on the show it's legends only: Russ Taff and Steve Taylor. They collaborated on Russ' new album, "Cover Story," but both have long and distinctive careers in the Christian music industry. 

Russ Taff became lead singer of The Imperials in 1976, started his solo career in 1983, earning two Grammys and many Dove awards. He was one of the industry's biggest solo male stars, but his most beloved songs are Pentecostal worship songs that connect all the way back to his childhood. Over the years he has dealt with alcoholism off and on, though he is beloved among his peers in the industry. 

Steve Taylor started his career as a new wave Randy Newman type, calling out hypocrisy in the evangelical church, while also becoming an "underground" hero to Christian music fans. In the early 1990s he formed the band Chagall Guevara, deepening the devotion of his alternative fandom. In 1997 he became a label boss when he launched Squint Entertainment, which signed Sixpence None The Richer and released the massive hit single, "Kiss Me."

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Michael Tait, most recently lead singer of The Newsboys and also well known as one third of DC Talk, confessed to accusations of sexual assault and drug abuse on June 10, 2025. This came after deeply reported investigations into his behavior were published first by The Roys Report and then by The Guardian. 

The day before this news broke, whistleblowers accused the worship leader best known for right wing political agitation, Sean Feucht, of financial misappropriation and spiritually coercive leadership tactics. 

Hosts Leah Payne and Andrew Gill discuss the two scandals and what each of these figures mean in the context of American evangelicalism. They're joined by Kelsey Kramer McGinnis, a musicologist and worship correspondent for Christianity Today. Her Substack piece on both men is very insightful.  

Additional reading:

Hayley Williams on Michael Tait

Kelsey's book "The Myth of Good Christian Parenting"

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 204-4264.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

A short update on progress towards season three of Rock That Doesn't Roll. 

Leah's limited-run podcast, Spirit and Power.

Buy tickets for our live show in Chicago on January 5!

It's the second annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards!

Listen to find out what awards Amy Grant, Sarah Masen, Carman, Stryper and David Meece won this year.

Do you have a song that deserves an award? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Charlie Peacock is a renowned figure in the music industry for his solo albums, production work, songwriting and his record label RE:Think, which launched Switchfoot and Sarah Mason. Outside of the music industry spotlight he and his wife Andi Ashworth were creating a very unique space in Nashville called The Art House. Their experiences with The Art House inspired their recent book, "Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt." 

Leah actually worked at The Art House more than 20 years ago, so we were eager to talk with Charlie and Andi about this book. 

To hear the full hour-long interview, visit our Patreon. 

In the Patreon-only version of this episode, Charlie also shares which collaborator he considers one of the best songwriters in the world.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Jordan Morris is a long time podcaster, comedy writer and creator and co-writer of the two-time Eisner-nominated graphic novel Bubble (based on the hit podcast). His new graphic novel, co-written with artist Bowen McCurdy is Youth Group. It draws on Jordan's real life experiences in a Orange County California youth groups in the 1990s, but adds literal demon hunting to the list of church-approved activities. 

In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about Christian summer camp and we share ideas for casting a film adaptation of Youth Group.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing [email protected]

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Second Sunday is one of our sibling podcasts with PRX's Big Questions Project. 

Second Sunday is about Black Queer folks finding, keeping and sometimes losing faith.

Mark Miller is a graduate of Juilliard and Yale University with an expertise in choral conducting, sacred music, and voice. His hymns and anthems are sung by communities of faith throughout the world, and his album, Imagine the People of God, is available on iTunes. He believes that music, social justice, and the beloved community are inextricably tied. His story is about finding God and himself through music.

The Second Sunday podcast is hosted by Esther and Darren Calhoun. Follow Esther @estheralready,https://www.instagram.com/estheralreadyFollow Darren @heydarren, https://www.instagram.com/heydarrenFollow Second Sunday @secondsundaypod, https://instagram.com/secondsundaypodSubscribe to the podcast, https://secondsundaypod.com