Shane Harris joins Matt to discuss his recent piece in The Atlantic, “Europe Is Answering Putin’s Challenge.” From drone incursions over the Baltic to Trump’s transactional diplomacy, Shane unpacks how European leaders are rearming, coordinating, and preparing for a future where Washington may no longer be the continent’s security backstop. They explore NATO’s shifting balance of power, the uneasy courtship between Trump and Europe’s leaders, and whether the alliance can endure in an age of populism and uncertainty.

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Read Shane’s piece: https://www.theatlantic.com/national-security/archive/2025/10/nato-putin-trump-europe-ukraine/684592/

More of Shane’s reporting: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/shane-harris/

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Music by Andrew R. Bird

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Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.