Former chief technology officer of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Dr. Anthony Vinci, joins Matt to explain why intelligence has broken out of the classified world—and why everyday citizens are now on the front lines. Anthony walks through three past “intelligence revolutions” and argues we’ve entered a fourth, driven by China and AI: intelligence expanding beyond war and politics into economics and tech, a “whole-of-society” competition that pulls in companies and universities, and a shift from targeting governments to targeting entire populations. They discuss “inanity of evil” disinformation operations, China’s push toward a global panopticon, the case for treating economic espionage as tier-one national security, and the coming collision of AI, autonomy, and trust—ending with what it means to “think like an intelligence officer” without becoming the thing we’re fighting.

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Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by Joy Asico

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.