CNN’s Jake Tapper joins Matt to discuss his new book Race Against Terror, a gripping true story of the US hunt and prosecution of an al-Qaeda fighter named Spin Ghul. They trace the case’s origins in Italy and Afghanistan, its lessons about justice and accountability after 9/11, and what it reveals about how America wages its “forever war.” Tapper reflects on writing trauma without spectacle, the moral limits of the war on terror, and the investigators who quietly uphold the rule of law amid politics and fear.

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photo by Elliott O'Donovan

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.