Chris speaks with researcher and author Ross Downing about his book Germanic and Slavic Paganism: Security Threats and Resiliency. Ross, who works with a network of scholars and specialists focused on minority religions and extremism, explores how modern pagan traditions, particularly those rooted in Germanic and Slavic identity, are increasingly weaponized by extremist movements on both sides of the Ukraine War. From the myth of the warrior ideal to the role of neo-paganism in Russian special forces and the Azov movement, Ross unpacks the ideological messiness, spiritual camouflage, and social vulnerabilities that make these belief systems ripe for radicalization. They also discuss the “folkish vs. inclusive” divide, the algorithm’s role in spreading conspiratorial spirituality, and why mainstream institutions need to step up—not just to contain extremism, but to support resilient, non-violent expressions of cultural identity.

Find Ross’s book: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/germanic-and-slavic-paganisms-9781350423916/

Watch on YouTube to see Ross talk about Pagan symbols used by Russian and Ukrainian forces: https://youtu.be/IMJ3OH3czMA

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Music by Andrew R. Bird

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Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.