Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Tim Weiner joins Matt to discuss The Mission, his new history of the CIA in the 21st century. They explore the agency’s quiet successes and moral failings, from dismantling the AQ Khan network to abetting torture and losing its way in Iraq. Weiner recounts how the CIA reoriented after the 2016 Russian election interference, played a key role in supporting Ukraine, and tried to hold the line under Trump. Their conversation spans secret wars, agency leadership, and whether America’s intelligence services can still defend democracy when democracy itself is under threat.

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Audio: https://pod.fo/e/2fa57b

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"The Mission by Tim Weiner review – unmasking the CIA" by John Simpson | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/jul/10/the-mission-by-tim-weiner-review-unmasking-the-cia

"The Mission" by Publishers Weekly: https://www.publishersweekly.com/9780063270183

"Mission Madness" by Loch K. Johnson | Spytalk: https://www.spytalk.co/p/mission-madness

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.

Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Harper Collins, Jessica Doyle & CIA

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.