Award-winning journalist John Beck joins Chris to discuss Those Who Should Be Seized Should Be Seized, his harrowing account of China’s campaign against Uyghurs, ethnic Kazakhs, and other Muslim minorities. Beck traces the lives of four people—from re-education camps in Xinjiang to exile in Turkey, Kazakhstan, and the US—revealing how Beijing’s reach extends far beyond its borders through intimidation, surveillance, and coercion. They explore mass detention, forced labor, and the destruction of culture; the weaponization of bureaucracy; and the role of literature and quiet resistance in preserving identity. Beck also examines the muted global response, the complicity of some governments, and the authoritarian playbook that turns Xinjiang into both a warning and a testing ground for repression worldwide.

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Music by Andrew R. Bird

Photos by Kemal Aslan/Depo Photos

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.