Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP) Podcast- A Polyvagal Theory Informed Therapy

Welcome to episode 31. Today is a very special gathering of fellow iLs instructors to honour the life of Ron Minson, M.D. whose life work impacted so many.  iLs systems changed lives from the bottom up. Dr Ron, as we call him,  received his medical degree from UCLA School of Medicine and is board-certified in  Psychiatry and Neurology. His general medical background includes serving as a family physician and health center Medical Director and clinical psychiatrist. Dr. Minson served as Chief of Psychiatry for Presbyterian Medical Center and Director of Behavioral Sciences at Mercy Hospital in Denver.
However, his life took a radical new pathway when he witnessed the successful treatment of his daughter for severe depression and dyslexia from a sound therapy program. He subsequently chose to devote his life to learning about the power of filtred sound in clinical application; developed programs, and taught practitioners so more people could heal from sound and bone conduction therapy. He developed  Dynamic Listening Systems (DLS), which he integrated into his psychiatric practice and later,  in 2007, iLs was launched to provide a more affordable and multisensory therapy- which is sound combined with visual, vestibular and movement, that could be used in homes and schools as well as therapy clinics.

Dr Minson worked closely with his wife, Kate Minson. Some words from Kate...

 “In the time I have been an eye-witness to Dr. Minson’s trajectory in the field of psychoacoustics, the branch of psychology concerned with sound and its physiological effects, I have noted a few common themes that run through his professional life story: a willingness to go boldly into uncharted territory, an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and an equally passionate desire to help people. 

Please enjoy my conversation with Fellow-iLs trainers, Doreen Hunt; Ann Brownstone; Dillen Hartley and Marianne Judd, all esteemed clinicians,  as we honour the memory and work of Dr Minson, sharing his knowledge and the powerful impact of the iLs and Pro system with clients. 
You will sense the gratitude we all feel to have been a part of the iLs family and the privilege it was to be able to teach the work.

Some key points- listen in for the details and more...

•  iLs is a multisensory program incorporating movement with filtered music and bone conduction 
• Dr Ron and Kate- knowledge way before their time 
• Power of breath and voice with breath- impact on the nervous system
• Sound as healing
• Study with Dr Tomatis
• The entire body as a vesicle for sound. 
• iLs foundation in neuroscience and neurodevelopment
• iLs connecting the sensory-motor system
• inter-uterine listening
• filtered mothers voice
• Pro System- individualized program with higher filtered music and bone conduction
• Dr Ron's legacy- integrating air and bone conduction in a single program; the ear-to-brain connection; bottom-up integration to build a foundation for integration
• Leadership through care- Kate and Dr Ron

I hope you all enjoyed this conversation. For me, it was lovely to connect again with some old friends and share story. There were a couple of other trainers who were unable to attend, Clinicians Mary Jones,  Andrea Pointer and Cindy Dawkins who were very much missed.  Being an iLs Trainer was a special time in my life.


To find out more about the iLs system or the SSP contact Unyte in Denver, or if you are located in Australia or New Zealand, contact Integrated Listening Australia.

Wishing you all kindness, Joanne.

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Welcome to episode 31. SSP as a Vagal Resonance Field Tuner for Healing with Paula Scatoloni. Today you are all in for an interesting conversation about the SSP and SSP group work; we talk about resonance and coherence in the body and between humans for attuned, present-moment connection.
A little bit of background about Paula.... she has been on a journey to understand the connection between consciousness and embodiment through Western and non-Western perspectives. Paula has a Masters in Social Work and has brought cutting-edge perspectives to institutions such as Duke University and co-developed clinical and training programs such as The Embodied Recovery Institute

As a sound, body, and energy-oriented practitioner, Paula loves to blend movement, sound, and vibration with neuroscience and body-based therapies to offer a holistic approach to support individual and collective nervous system healing.
 
Some key points you will hear in our discussion:
Supporting practitioners in SSP group learning experience- how to become "Master Regulators"
SSP group experiences for individuals- sound, vibration and movement
Cultivating the practice of witnessing the present moment
Emotion phobic
Working with structures (somatics and subconscious safety) of the early 0-3 years developmental period  that may have been impacted by early life trauma
Therapeutic work of "presence" and "touch for trauma healing
Attuned Presence to the body for healing- the body knows how to self-correct
Narratives around relational safety- how Touch work can shift this
Somatic Experience practitioners can sense into the many layers of the body
How do Attachment styles show up in touch, interactions, and communication
Trained Touch Work practitioners work
When our emotions, thoughts, and behaviours are not congruent we are in dissonance- Dan Seigal
Importance of setting intentions
Developmental movement patterns- push-pull-grasp- and subconscious attachment system
Somatic work to help develop body boundaries
Embodied Recovery Program
Integrating Somatic and IFS with SSP

To Contact Paula:https://paula-scatoloni-s-school.teachable.com/

Such an interesting conversation. I am excited to share that I will be experiencing one of Paula's   The Healing Power of Sound:Cultivating Body, Mind, Heart Connection Through Self Harmonics - groups in early 2024 and will podcast about my experience.

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Welcome everyone to episode 30.
Today's conversation is focused on the SSP for Kids. In my work supporting families with children who are experiencing challenges, whether that be neurodevelopmental or mental health-related; I have observed significant improvements following the SSP. I am also privileged to receive a lot of feedback from pediatric-focused therapists on the improvements they observe because of the SSP.  So I wanted to help build awareness both for practitioners working with children or for any families listening who are experiencing challenges. As you will hear the SSP offers hope and evidence-based improvements across psychosocial-biophysiological systems.

Today I am speaking with two senior-level clinicians, each with over 30 years of experience in pediatric therapy. I am honored to know them both as colleagues and good friends. Doreen Hunt, Occupational Therapist is the co-owner of Children’s Therapy of Woodinville, Seattle USA. Irena Woodward, Occupational Therapist, is the owner of Family Connections in Sydney Australia. Both have extensive training beyond the Safe and Sound protocol and I will include their contact details at the end of the podcast.

 Some of the Key Points:

• Doreen discusses the case of an adolescent female who had significant mental health challenges- hospitalized for self-harm and had begun auditory hallucinations- after the first 30 min of SSP, her hallucinations stopped.- Listen in for more to this story.
• Irena discusses a young female with Functional Neurological Disorder and eating disorder- initially on nasogastric tube feedings- over SSP repeats was able to eat regular foods.
• SSP impacting the integrated social engagement system to see improved intake for feeding difficulties
• SSP for infants - micro premi or failure to thrive
• SSP and vagus stimulation and resulting bowl and bladder awareness in a young child
• SSP to improve facial expressivity- connection to attachment
• More harmonious family life after SSP
• SSP and improved emotional intelligence
• SSP and increased feelings of happiness in kids
• SSP and improved vocal quality and inflection
• SSP with improvements in gross and fine motor skills
• We discuss the neurobiology of Safety
• SSP with resulting improvements in family dynamics
• Improvements in global development
• Importance for the family to nourish a sense of safety

I hope you enjoyed this episode and found the information helpful.  It would be a great honor if you could share this episode with a colleague, friend, or family member. Knowledge is power and sharing this episode may help someone who is struggling. 

A big thank you to those who sent in questions. My apologies if I did not get to yours. We do plan to record a follow-up session in early 2024 targeted to specific questions around SSP implementation so if you have any questions or suggestions please email me [email protected] or message me via the Safe and Sound Protocol Podcast FB group.

Doreen, Irena, and I, support clients globally. I will list contact details in the show notes and our SSP FB page.
But to contact Irena- contact [email protected]
Doreen at- [email protected] 
Myself- [email protected]

 My next guest is the esteemed Dr Sue Carter, founder of Oxytoxin, the Social bonding hormone and wife to Dr Stephen Porges. I look forward to sharing that with you. Sending you kindness and self-compassion until next time. Take care, Joanne.

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Welcome to episode  29.  I am so thrilled to share my conversation with Christine Dickson. Get ready to be inspired; hopeful, and think deeply about your Pathway in Life.  
"Christine Dickson is a Transformational Mentor, Clinical Hypnotherapist, and Equine Assisted Coach. She works with people to map out their vision and reframe their limiting belief systems to create radical shifts in their lives.
She has a solid background in working with people moving away from addiction and pathological relationships, supporting their quest to live a more free and purposeful life. Her ideal client is a fellow traveler who has come to a crossroads and dares to walk in the direction of their hearts longing. 
A self-described “Late Bloomer”, she traveled a slow but steady path to rewrite her subconscious conditioning and take responsibility for her own life. By becoming more self-aware and intentional she was able to propel herself into taking meaningful action and change course. Now, she helps others do the same. What does your heart long to bring forth into the world? When that small inner voice whispers to you what you know to be true, do you listen?"
Some key topics, quotes, or points:

• Everything you have done in life is building toward something
• Childhood adaptive brilliance- living inside other people's nervous systems for survival- a way of "being" to stay safe
• Being primed for repeating non-adaptive behaviours
• Everything that happens to you is an opportunity to see......What is the Gift within the event.......even if is a traumatic event
• I am responsible for my decisions- it doesn't serve me to not take responsibility
• You have 2 choices- you can either be angry at what happened or you can LIVE....but you can't do both- holding anger will eat away at any future happiness
• Fear- can be a good motivator
• Once you say "Yes" to create a new life- do the work- the Universe sends things your way
• I'm just going to start...what is the worst that can happen
• The dreaded...."I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH"
• Malibu Addiction Centre- what is the root cause of the coping mechanism
• The power of your Mindset- overcoming anxiety, fears, worries
• Just keep showing up.....keep moving forward
• Subconscious mind- the only thing it is afraid of is the UNKNOWN
• The best thing anyone can do is to be really really interested in their own process-observe self from a distance
• Addiction- often a child or partner of someone with a personality disorder or pathological disorder
• "Love Bombing"
• Pathological Relationships- Addiction link- you can leave without "leaving" by drinking or taking drugs
• Addiction in Families- "often a dance of interactions" like a "supporting cast in a movie."
• Christine's Work- "On the Path"- helping people work out their life purpose
•  "Survivor......the problem with being a survivor is that you have to create situations you need to survive in order to show your skills."
• I choose to Thrive
• The fear of not stepping fully into  being ourselves- always holding a bit back
• Equine work- people typically trust animals quicker than they do humans.
• Horses help us tap into something primal- help us open up more for exploration
• Your Internal Family Systems play out in front of you with the horses- like the embodiment of a part right in front of you.

Books
The War of Art,  by Steven Pressfield
Big Magic, by Elizabeth Gilbert
A great podcast with Christine- check out The Journey On Podcast-

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 Welcome to Episode 28.  What I really enjoy about hosting this podcast is the opportunity to meet authentic people passionate about their work and who are open to sharing their knowledge with you. In this episode, I speak with 6 .....yes 6 skilled Somatic Experience (SE) practitioners. To be honest I was a little concerned about how it would flow with 6 people but I feel it resulted in a wonderful conversation.  Please listen in as I speak with Paula Scatoloni, Laura Moorehead, Kate Appleton, Melinda Cornish, Katie McClain, and Leah Dawang about Somatic Experience therapeutic work and supporting clients with an integrated model of SE and the Safe and Sound Protocol.

This team of practitioners can be thanked for their work in developing a set of Guidelines for Unyte which inform SE practitioners about how to integrate the SSP to facilitate deep somatic healing work.
 You will hear as they each discuss their unique approach and their commitment to an integrated SE and SSP model to help in the healing process.

Some of the topics touched on include:

• What is Somatic Experience - the main premise 
• Peter Levine- SE Founder- his thinking in developing the SE Approach
• Priority of the practitioner for self-regulation
• Shock trauma explained
• Exploring the somatic completion of an event that was not completed in a trauma
• SSP expands the "relational field" to help the nervous system work through stored stress
• SSP resourcing the nervous system to enhance expansion
• SSP helps the relational connection- somatic patterning of early attachment and bonding
• Somatic scaffolding of the attachment system
• OT sensory tools
• SSP, Focus, SE, and Parts work
• SSP and resonant frequencies in the body
• Developing agency and control
• SE, SSP, and Touch work
• Touch work to help anchor the sense of safety in the body- a gentle hand over the adrenals or occiput
• working with children should involve the whole family
• 6 views of what is the gift that the SSP brings to helping clients
• Kate Appleton..." a potent experience....opens a portal to safety without language..."

 Recommended Books
Books by Stanly Kellerman- Father of Somatics
The Gifts of the Body- Johnathon Bowan
What Happened to You?: Conversations on Trauma, Resilience, and Healing- Oprah Winfrey and Dr Bruce Perry
Nurturing Resilience: Helping Clients Move Forward from Developmental Trauma-An Integrative Somatic Approach by Kathy L. Kain and Stephen J. Terrell
The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk

To contact the panel members please see below:
Paula Scatoloni- [email protected]
Laura Moorehead - [email protected]
Kate Appleton - [email protected]
Melinda Cornish - [email protected]
Katie McClain - [email protected]
Leah Dawang - [email protected]


If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague.

Questions or comments - [email protected]

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Hello and welcome to Episode 27. Today I have a very rich discussion with Richmond Heath, Physiotherapist, about TRE ( Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises.) Richmond is the Executive Director of Trauma Release Australia and a Level 3 TRE trainer.  He was responsible for bringing Dr David Berceli and TRE to Australia in 2011. 
Richmond also holds an Advanced Diploma of Aboriginal Studies, is a qualified Bowen Therapist, teaches Clinical Pilates, and has a diverse background in both public and private health sectors including youth, community, mental and indigenous health. Richmond coordinates the professional training and supervision of TRE trainers Australia wide providing TRE workshops and training for groups, corporations, organizations and local regions all around Australia and Asia Pacific.

I am sure you all will sense from Richmond his passion for TRE, not only in his own personal journey but to bring this approach to others.

As you will hear, the theoretical premise of TRE is very much embedded in PVT. In our journey as practitioners, we know that we need a variety of tools to draw from as every nervous system we support is unique.  SSP practitioners who incorporate TRE have shared with me they find an integrated approach critical to help resource the nervous system.

Please enjoy my conversation with Richmond.

Some points from our conversation but please listen in as Richmond discusses Polyvagal Theory from a slightly different lens.

• TRE Founder David Berceli once posited – “Just as the defence cascade is a subcortical phylogenetically ordered pathway, doesn’t it make sense that the body would have evolved a similar subcortical & phylogenetically ordered pathway to release or come back out of those defensive states?” 
•  ‘Coming down the curve’  - allowing all our systems of the body to restore themselves to their natural variable, flexible pulsation & movement
• When Stephen Porges attended a TRE Global Summit, he summarised the spontaneous movements invoked with TRE like this:
  • “Tension (or collapse) in the body is a defensive response”
  • “TRE is a neural exercise of convincing the body to trust gravity & let go of its habituated defensive responses”
  • “TRE is getting the body to give up its self-protection so its rhythms can return & it can retune defensive patterns in the musculoskeletal structure”
• ‘Movement= external movement ( body movement through space) and internal movement (pulsation & variability within all the systems of the body)
• PVT- 3 categories of movement 
  • calm, curious & connected movement (ventral vagal state)
  • compulsive movement towards & away (sympathetic state)
  • contained (hypertonic mobilization) collapsed (hypotonic immobilization) & disconnected movement (dorsal vagal state)
• Discharge emotional energy/memories in the body
• Reduce chronic tension- body and mental
• Develop a different relationship with your body- start to trust your body.
• Defensive states are also associated with a process of disembodiment –as sympathetic arousal states are activated along with a shunting of blood to the heart & lungs & muscles of the limbs, there is a reduction in blood flow & awareness of the hands & feet – so with any level of stress we are also subtly beginning to lose connection with our body
• Just as this process of disembodiment is driven by the nervous system & not our cognition during stress, so too, the process of re-embodiment is a subcortical phenomenon ultimately controlled by & limited by the nervous system – not our cognition

• Link to TRE Website- https://traumapreventi

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It is with the utmost pleasure I speak with Rebecca Bailey PhD. Polyvagal Equine Institute (PVEI) Founder.

Dr . Bailey is a leading trauma therapist who specializes in complex case scenarios. She has over 30 years of experience in the field and continues to be dedicated to the notion that authenticity, common sense, and kindness are the most important elements of effective treatment. She is a lifelong equestrian and animal lover who continues to believe animals, in particular horses, have much to teach humans about curiosity and compassion.

She is the author of two books: Safe Kids: Smart Parents and Equine Connections: Polyvagal Principles as well as articles on Polyvagal principles in the courtroom and the application of equine interventions to a variety of populations. 

I loved speaking with Rebecca and am so looking forward to our ongoing collaboration about implementing SSP with stressed and anxious horses as well as horse and rider connection. I hope you enjoy our conversation, some of the topics we discuss include:

• How Equines were pivotal in her work with supporting Jaycee Dugard who was abducted for 18 years
• Rethinking Stockholm Syndrome to a new "Appeasement" Framework- Published paper the result of a collaboration including Dr Stephen Porges- see link below
• Forming the Polyvagal Equine Institute with Co-Founders Jaycee Dugard and Margie McDonald
• What is it about horses that make them an ideal collaborator to help humans learn about their nervous systems?
• Horses' entire existence is neuroception
• How PVEI differs from other equine-assisted therapies
• Carousel analogy as another metaphor option from Deb Dana's Polyvagal Ladder
• Polyvagal Equine work- moving away from talk therapy to body-based work
• Polyvagal principles working with Law Enforcement and Judges.
• The lessons practitioners can learn about their own nervous systems from Equine work to help them better support clients
• Horses as conduits for connection
• Horses and "mind reading"- or highly tuned neuroceptive systems
• "Sensing in"- how horses help teach us humans to be attuned to other humans
• SSP for horses to help decrease anxiety- an exciting project we plan to collaborate on together- contact us for more information- [email protected]
• Our personal experience using the SSP with our horses
• Training opportunities at PVEI

Link to Polyvagal Equine Institute

Appeasement: replacing Stockholm syndrome as a definition of a survival strategy
Rebecca Bailey, Jaycee Dugard, Stefanie F. Smith & Stephen W. Porges
Article: 2161038 | Received 25 Jul 2022, Accepted 07 Dec 2022, Published online: 19 Jan 2023

Books

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Welcome to episode 25.
Today I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr Petria Thoresen, psychologist,  from STAND for CHILDREN/Stand Tū Māia based in New Zealand. 

Integrated Listening Australia is the official Distributor of the SSP and Focus System for Australia and New Zealand and has been supporting STAND for a number of years. STAND began implementing the SSP in 2019 and has over 40 staff trained. They also support their community with the Focus system and IOM2 Interactive Biofeedback program.
New Zealand has experienced a number of traumas over the last few years- earthquakes, a mass shooting,  pandemic lockdowns, and floods. Petria explains how STAND embeds native culture and a philosophy that it takes a village..... in supporting children and families who have experienced trauma. Their model may be a good reference for other organizations. 

Some key points...listen in to find out more.

• It takes a village to help heal trauma
• Theraplay
• Music therapy as a post-SSP session to help wire in reciprocal interactions,  mirroring, vocalizations, and creativity- important elements of the Social Engagement System
• Multi-model therapy to treat trauma- ISTSS best practices
• Intense therapy model for trauma
• SSP implementation refined in real time- driven by practitioner feedback
• Community heals- we are better together
• Phased sequenced approach to complex trauma
• We are "people alongside people' in healing trauma

Petria references 3 papers:

Adolescents | Free Full-Text | Trauma-Related Internalizing and Externalizing Behaviors in Adolescence: A Bridge between Psychoanalysis and Neuroscience (mdpi.com)

Treatment of complex PTSD: results of the ISTSS expert clinician survey on best practices - PubMed (nih.gov)

Multimodal Therapy: A Unifying Approach to Psychotherapy | Psychology Today

Dr Petria Thöresen, PhD is a fully certified Theraplay® Therapist/Supervisor and
Trainer. Petria completed her PhD in Psychology at Canterbury University,
New Zealand.  Petria has a Post Graduate degree in Teaching & Learning, Post Graduate Diploma in Science- Child and Family Psychology, and a Post Graduate Diploma in Psychological Practice and is a New Zealand Registered Psychologist.
Petria is currently working as a Therapeutic Practice Leader Pou Heke with Stand
Children’s Services ensuring the ethical and culturally safe practice of Theraplay®
as well as other interventions such as Clinical Hypnotherapy, Brainspotting, Safe & Sound Protocol and  HRV  Biofeedback, Neurofeedback, and Poly Vagal Therapy etc.
The daily focus of Stand Tū Māia is to provide transformative services to tamariki,
mokopuna, and whānau that Support responsive relationships, reduce sources of
stress in their lives and strengthen self-regulation and core executive skills. Stand Tū
Māia has seven sites across NZ.
She can be contacted at [email protected]

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Welcome to Episode 24. I have the pleasure of speaking with Michael Romeo, Clinical Psychologist, about Functional Neurological Disorder (FND).

Michael has been practicing as a Clinical Psychologist for over 20 years. He began his career as an Adolescent Psychologist. He worked in Bali treating ex-patriates experiencing PTSD following the Bali Bombing in 2002. He has worked as an educator and supervisor for most of his career. Michael lectured at Macquarie University for over ten years and was the International Student Counsellor at The University of Newcastle Counselling Service. Most of his career has focused on treating suicidal behaviours and complex trauma with EMDR, Schema Therapy, DBT and other strengths-based approaches. He currently works in private practice, where his primary clinical interest is treating Functional Neurological Disorders.

This is such a rich discussion as not only is Michael an expert on FND but has lived experience. Listen in for a wealth of information pertinent to both the practitioner and the individual who may be experiencing unexplainable neurological symptoms.

Some of the key points covered include:

• What is FND?
• Disconnection between the brain's hardware and the brain's software
• Neurological symptoms- brain stress response
• Why getting an accurate diagnosis is so important
• The diagnosis acceptance process
• Importance of engaging with therapy to reduce negative neuroplasticity
• Need for a team approach for FND- OT, PT, Yoga, Psychology, .......
• Energy Systems Hypothesis for Functional Seizures
• Stress Model and FND
• Children and Adolescents and FND
• Michael's personal journey with FND
• Virtual Reality for FND
• FND Resources
• Managing the boom and bust of FND
• Role of distraction in recovery
• Dispelling negative expectations and recovery
• SSP for FND- Michael's experience with the SSP- improved mood, energy, less brain fog, and a sense of calm.

Resources we spoke about include:

https://www.neurosymptoms.org/en/
https://fndhope.org/
https://fndaus.org.au/

SSP and FND Paper in Harvard Review of Psychiatry tells the story of MT, a 10-year-old girl with Functional Neurological Disorder (FND) (Rajabalee, et al. 2022).
Neuromodulation Using Computer-Altered Music to Treat a Ten-Year-Old Child Unresponsive to Standard Interventions for Functional Neurological Disorder

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Welcome to episode 22. I have the utmost pleasure of speaking with Dr Arielle Schwartz, 
a licensed clinical psychologist located in Boulder, CO. Arielle offers training for therapists, maintains a private practice, and has passions for the outdoors, yoga, and writing. She is the developer of Resilience-Informed Therapy which applies research on trauma recovery to form a strength-based, trauma treatment model that includes Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), somatic (body-centered) psychology, mindfulness-based therapies, and time-tested relational psychotherapy. Arielle has authored a number of books, but today we are focusing our discussion on her work connecting Polyvagal Theory with yoga practice.

Some of the topics or points you will hear in our discussion include:

• Arielle's collaboration with  Dr Porges 
• Applied Polyvagal Theory and Yoga Course available via the Polyvagal Institute 
• Arielle's personal experience with the iLs Focus System
• Neuromodulation and yoga practice
• "Less is More" the gentle input of yoga- felt sense of opening up and softening
• Cervical tightness and forward positioning due to looking down at devices and screen time- impact vagal tone
• Polyvagal speaks of the importance of co-regulation with a safe other but we need to be connected to our body...yoga provides that connection
• Trauma and stress often create less flexible thinking- yoga facilitates flexibility in the body that fosters flexibility in the mind 
• Trauma and related conditions such as POTS and Dysautonomia- how yoga can help
• Researcher- Jo Miller - facia release and vagal tone
• Learn about the importance of our facial system connecting all internal organs, immune and endocrine systems
• Psoas muscle= fight/flight muscle - often holds tension from trauma
• Therapeutic yoga for trauma- release and unwind  held defensive tension with safety 
• Therapeutic Yoga for Trauma Recovery: Applying the Principles of Polyvagal Theory for Self-Discovery, Embodied Healing, and Meaningful Change
• New book by Arielle EMDR Therapy and Somatic Psychology: Interventions to Enhance Embodiment in Trauma Treatment

I hope everyone enjoyed this lovely discussion with Arielle. I feel even more inspired to hit the mat!
To find out more about Arielle's work I will include links to her website in the show notes and our Safe and Sound Protocol Podcast FB page. You can find a link to order her book Therapeutic Yoga for Trauma Recovery: Applying the Principles of Polyvagal Theory for Self-Discovery, Embodied Healing, and Meaningful Change on the Safe and Sound Protocol FB page too.
If you liked this episode please share it with a friend, family member, or colleague.

Link to Arielle's Website- https://drarielleschwartz.com/


Breathe slow and low,
Joanne

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